GPA Addendum make sense?

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ejtqaznkmh
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GPA Addendum make sense?

Postby ejtqaznkmh » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:48 pm

So
Last edited by ejtqaznkmh on Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: GPA Addendum make sense?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:03 pm

I don’t think arguing that the way LSAC does things is unfair is going to help you, no.

You could maybe explain that a large proportion of your grades converted to “pass” and therefore your calculated GPA doesn’t reflect your academic achievement, but don’t argue with how LSAC does it.

The addendum probably won’t have any real effect, but arguing against LSAC won’t look good.

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UVA2B
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Re: GPA Addendum make sense?

Postby UVA2B » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:04 pm

This is a bad idea if you frame it as excoriating LSAC for bad GPA calculations. GPA addenda are used to explain why your GPA is not representative of your abilities because extenuating circumstances affected that performance. It will sound whiny and immature.

And the difference between LSAC GPA and your college GPA isn't big enough to warrant an addendum.

An addendum in your case wouldn't do anything to help your application, and if you framed it this way, it could very easily come off horribly.

ETA: more or less scooped by Nony

albanach
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Re: GPA Addendum make sense?

Postby albanach » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:07 pm

ejtqaznkmh wrote: (please don't say retake, unlike most of you, I actually am on a timeline due to personal circumstance so law school isnt going to be "always there" for me. It's pretty now or never). [/size]


So it will be okay to be a lawyer, but not be at law school.

Besides, you still have test administration dates that would be eligible for next year, so why is retaking out?

ejtqaznkmh
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Re: GPA Addendum make sense?

Postby ejtqaznkmh » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:52 pm

UVA2B wrote:This is a bad idea if you frame it as excoriating LSAC for bad GPA calculations. GPA addenda are used to explain why your GPA is not representative of your abilities because extenuating circumstances affected that performance. It will sound whiny and immature.


Ok, i appreciate this feed back. How about something like

"I would like the admissions committee to consider that the GPA presented to you in not a complete and accurate representation of my academic ability. While I graduated with 150 credits, only 100 were calculated by the Law School Admissions Council. I focused my undergraduate years on experiential learning, and that is why so many credits are pass/fail. In generating the academic summary report, fail grades are punitive while pass grades is completely excluded from the report. While I understand, accept and respect the LSAC admissions process and policies, I hope you take this into consideration as you assess my application. "


Also, I dont think there's any benefit to not saying anything at all. If there is even a .5% chance that someone will take this into consideration, I'll take it.

ejtqaznkmh
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Re: GPA Addendum make sense?

Postby ejtqaznkmh » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:54 pm

albanach wrote:
Besides, you still have test administration dates that would be eligible for next year, so why is retaking out?


No time to study right now. There's no point in retaking if i can't dedicate significant time to it.

hamshotfirst
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Re: GPA Addendum make sense?

Postby hamshotfirst » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:30 pm

I just don't think that an addendum would do anything. Your GPA would still be below the 25th percentile of schools like Temple, so literally the only value it would offer to adcomms would be giving them insight into your opinion of the LSAC GPA calculation.

You have to think about it from their perspective. Yes, your GPA is a smidge higher than LSAC indicates, but not really by an amount that would move their stats anywhere, or demonstrate that you're a significantly better student than the GPA indicates. It'd be one thing if your GPA went from like a 3.6 to a 3.4, but here writing an addendum about how the LSAC calculates GPAs would really just be giving them more to read.

My opinion (and opinion it is only!) is that this won't do anything to help. It will either do nothing or it will hurt your app. I bet you'll get in to your target schools though! Good luck!

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rpupkin
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Re: GPA Addendum make sense?

Postby rpupkin » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:31 pm

ejtqaznkmh wrote:
albanach wrote:
Besides, you still have test administration dates that would be eligible for next year, so why is retaking out?


No time to study right now. There's no point in retaking if i can't dedicate significant time to it.

Truth. You need to focus your time and energy on preparing and submitting law school applications, not on retaking the LSAT.

cavalier1138
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Re: GPA Addendum make sense?

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:43 pm

ejtqaznkmh wrote:
UVA2B wrote:This is a bad idea if you frame it as excoriating LSAC for bad GPA calculations. GPA addenda are used to explain why your GPA is not representative of your abilities because extenuating circumstances affected that performance. It will sound whiny and immature.


Ok, i appreciate this feed back. How about something like

[Edited out at OP's request, because he's apparently going through with the bad plan.]


Also, I dont think there's any benefit to not saying anything at all. If there is even a .5% chance that someone will take this into consideration, I'll take it.


No. Not only is there no benefit, but bitching about LSAC's grading policies will have a negative effect.

I get that you feel slighted by LSAC, but this is, bar none, the worst reason to write a GPA addendum.

ETA: Also, the argument about not having time to study/retake is ludicrous, as is the argument that you must, at all costs, go to law school next year. There is literally no life circumstance I can think of (and I'm pretty damn imaginative) that would make it totally convenient to start law school next year but completely impossible after 2018. You're creating barriers for yourself, and you're going to box yourself in to a bunch of shit options if you don't take the blinders off.
Last edited by cavalier1138 on Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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icechicken
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Re: GPA Addendum make sense?

Postby icechicken » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:56 pm

I can think of a few reasons OP might believe they must answer the call go to law school this coming fall (or else not at all):

- They're in the US on a student visa and trying to stay longer but can't get sponsored for a green card
- They're trying to appease a parent or similar figure on whom they're financially dependent
- They intend to run for a Senate seat that will open up in 2022

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sodomojo
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Re: GPA Addendum make sense?

Postby sodomojo » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:31 am

ejtqaznkmh wrote:I was thinking about arguing that the LSAC is unfair in making fails in pass/fail courses punitive but passes are not calculated. I did a lot of experiential learning classes in college so i have years of experience (like real work experience, not internships)- including in top gov't offices, so I have 23 credits that I got an A but at my college experiential learning grades turn into pass/fail. So basically I have all these credits that arent being calculated therefore the GPA is not an accurate reflection of my academic ability.

What would you want LSAC to recalculate a P as? 2.0? That's all it implies unfortunately. You'd have better luck appealing to your school and asking them to reconsider the credits as letter grades than arguing with LSAC.

From my experience though, there's usually a good reason a school chooses to grade a particular course as P/F.

albanach
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Re: GPA Addendum make sense?

Postby albanach » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:53 am

icechicken wrote:I can think of a few reasons OP might believe they must answer the call go to law school this coming fall (or else not at all):

- They're in the US on a student visa and trying to stay longer but can't get sponsored for a green card
- They're trying to appease a parent or similar figure on whom they're financially dependent
- They intend to run for a Senate seat that will open up in 2022


It's possible though I don't think any are necessarily good reasons for selecting the schools being mentioned. And none of these reasons preclude retaking in February. A 3.1 GPA URM with a mid 160s score, even at the end of the application season, would be in a better position than with a 156 today.

For #1, it may be possible to leave, get a new student visa and return in a year (unless they're from a country currently disfavored by DHS).

For #2, I'd hope a future lawyer could educate said parent on the benefits of waiting. If that's not possible, it might come down to how much the parent will contribute, since a higher LSAT could be worth a couple of hundred thousand dollars.

For #3, save the money and skip law school. They'll need it for purchasing facebook ads.

ejtqaznkmh
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Re: GPA Addendum make sense?

Postby ejtqaznkmh » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:36 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
ETA: Also, the argument about not having time to study/retake is ludicrous, as is the argument that you must, at all costs, go to law school next year. There is literally no life circumstance I can think of (and I'm pretty damn imaginative) that would make it totally convenient to start law school next year but completely impossible after 2018. You're creating barriers for yourself, and you're going to box yourself in to a bunch of shit options if you don't take the blinders off.


I appreciate the concern but don't worry about it. Personal reasons.

cavalier1138
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Re: GPA Addendum make sense?

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:49 pm

albanach wrote:
icechicken wrote:I can think of a few reasons OP might believe they must answer the call go to law school this coming fall (or else not at all):

- They're in the US on a student visa and trying to stay longer but can't get sponsored for a green card
- They're trying to appease a parent or similar figure on whom they're financially dependent
- They intend to run for a Senate seat that will open up in 2022


It's possible though I don't think any are necessarily good reasons for selecting the schools being mentioned. And none of these reasons preclude retaking in February. A 3.1 GPA URM with a mid 160s score, even at the end of the application season, would be in a better position than with a 156 today.

For #1, it may be possible to leave, get a new student visa and return in a year (unless they're from a country currently disfavored by DHS).

For #2, I'd hope a future lawyer could educate said parent on the benefits of waiting. If that's not possible, it might come down to how much the parent will contribute, since a higher LSAT could be worth a couple of hundred thousand dollars.

For #3, save the money and skip law school. They'll need it for purchasing facebook ads.


I assumed that icechicken wanted to emphasize that these were reasons someone might believe that they were not able to go to law school. But yeah, I agree that these scenarios would only appear as bars to not doing law school later to a very young and impatient applicant.

ejtqaznkmh wrote:I appreciate the concern but don't worry about it. Personal reasons.


And I would make an educated guess that the same is true here. There are a number of things that can make it difficult/impossible to go to law school right away (illness, injury, death in the family, etc.). But in order to prevent future attendance, you have to claim that you're predicting circumstances that will forever prevent you from going to school (but not from being a lawyer) in exactly 4 years.

ejtqaznkmh
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Re: GPA Addendum make sense?

Postby ejtqaznkmh » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:03 am

cavalier1138 wrote:And I would make an educated guess that the same is true here. There are a number of things that can make it difficult/impossible to go to law school right away (illness, injury, death in the family, etc.). But in order to prevent future attendance, you have to claim that you're predicting circumstances that will forever prevent you from going to school (but not from being a lawyer) in exactly 4 years.


Fine, if you must know, I'm going to die.
No I'm serious, this isn't hyperbole or anything, I have cancer and I have roughly aroung 5-6 yearsish if I'm lucky.
I always dreamed of law school and will go because fuck cancer if it thinks it's stopping me.
I'm just telling you because you're so full up your ass on thinking you know what's right for me that after I've said several times that it's not a common situation and I know why I'm in a hurry. YOU were like I KNOW WHATS BETTER FOR YOU DO AS I SAY.
. i appreciate the advice but not every situation is a carbon copy of everyone else.

Additionally, I emailed some law school deans and had a chat with them and they've helped me frame it better. So yeah I'm going ahead with it. If I don't get higher ranked schools like Temple or GW, I'm fine, I'm very confident in my application to Rutgers though, which I personally feel is underrated (yes, yes, I know law school admissions is about numbers and not feelings )
(In case you're wondering why I won't use my cancer for a boost...well I just won't. I don't want it to be my crutch.)

albanach
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Re: GPA Addendum make sense?

Postby albanach » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:32 pm

ejtqaznkmh wrote:I'm just telling you because you're so full up your ass on thinking you know what's right for me that after I've said several times that it's not a common situation and I know why I'm in a hurry. YOU were like I KNOW WHATS BETTER FOR YOU DO AS I SAY.
. i appreciate the advice but not every situation is a carbon copy of everyone else.


Sorry to hear of your diagnosis. Obviously we would all have preferred to learn that you were indeed planning to run for a senate seat.

Folk here do understand that not everyone is a carbon copy - but there's scores of people who come here thinking their situation is unique and want others to help them justify racking up $300k in loans to attend a school where they have a 40% chance of becoming a lawyer and only a fraction of that chance of earning a salary that would permit them to repay their loans. It's exceedingly rare that a situation appears where that could make any sense. Without detail to the contrary, it's reasonable to assume there's nothing unique about an anonymous person asking for general advice on an internet forum.

In your case, I presume the finances don't matter to you, in that you could borrow with no intent to repay. I'll leave the ethics of that to the side. Nor does actually becoming a lawyer in a position that could repay those loans.

In which case, I'd repeat the other general advice offered to anyone that visits here (when money isn't a factor). Go to the best school you can secure admission to. I still don't see a reason not to retake in February which would not delay your admission cycle. If February is out - say because of an upcoming medical procedure - then register for December. Even a few points could be important, and registration is I Believe still open.

But now we can return to the original question. You asked if a GPA addendum made sense without providing otherwise pertinent information. If a terminal illness diagnosis was responsible for the low GPA, or was the impetus to raise your game and increase your GPA, then a short statement to that effect might be worthwhile. Bear in mind that some admissions officers might be hesitant to admit a student with such a diagnosis, but it sounds like you have reached out in person to discuss that and it's not an issue.

I don't judge you in any way for selecting a law degree as something you want to achieve. I would, however, suggest that you talk to 3Ls or graduates of any school you plan to attend to make sure the environment sounds like somewhere you'd like to spend a large proportion of your remaining time.

ejtqaznkmh
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Re: GPA Addendum make sense?

Postby ejtqaznkmh » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:00 pm

Hey all, im closing this thread. I really appreciate the advice and I know it's all coming from a good place. I might come back and tell you what happened if I get into my reaches.

For anyone asking, no the diagnosis was not the reason for my GPA, i was just trash at picking classes and i chose hard classes. Like many URMs, I didnt know that law school applications is a big numbers game, I thought it was more of a "show us that you're proactive" game, which is why I chose courses that gave me credit for internship experience over increasing my GPA. Had I known, I probably wouldve done college more a little different. But also eh, those internships got me the fantastic job I have now. (I'm 2 years out of undergrad)
Actually I just got the diagnosis so I'm just not in the head space to study for February or December (also my job takes a huge chunk of my time).
I'm not going to mention the diagnosis on my application, I don't want that pity.

Thank you all.

cavalier1138
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Re: GPA Addendum make sense?

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:30 pm

albanach wrote:
ejtqaznkmh wrote:I'm just telling you because you're so full up your ass on thinking you know what's right for me that after I've said several times that it's not a common situation and I know why I'm in a hurry. YOU were like I KNOW WHATS BETTER FOR YOU DO AS I SAY.
. i appreciate the advice but not every situation is a carbon copy of everyone else.


Sorry to hear of your diagnosis. Obviously we would all have preferred to learn that you were indeed planning to run for a senate seat.

Folk here do understand that not everyone is a carbon copy - but there's scores of people who come here thinking their situation is unique and want others to help them justify racking up $300k in loans to attend a school where they have a 40% chance of becoming a lawyer and only a fraction of that chance of earning a salary that would permit them to repay their loans. It's exceedingly rare that a situation appears where that could make any sense. Without detail to the contrary, it's reasonable to assume there's nothing unique about an anonymous person asking for general advice on an internet forum.

In your case, I presume the finances don't matter to you, in that you could borrow with no intent to repay. I'll leave the ethics of that to the side. Nor does actually becoming a lawyer in a position that could repay those loans.

In which case, I'd repeat the other general advice offered to anyone that visits here (when money isn't a factor). Go to the best school you can secure admission to. I still don't see a reason not to retake in February which would not delay your admission cycle. If February is out - say because of an upcoming medical procedure - then register for December. Even a few points could be important, and registration is I Believe still open.

But now we can return to the original question. You asked if a GPA addendum made sense without providing otherwise pertinent information. If a terminal illness diagnosis was responsible for the low GPA, or was the impetus to raise your game and increase your GPA, then a short statement to that effect might be worthwhile. Bear in mind that some admissions officers might be hesitant to admit a student with such a diagnosis, but it sounds like you have reached out in person to discuss that and it's not an issue.

I don't judge you in any way for selecting a law degree as something you want to achieve. I would, however, suggest that you talk to 3Ls or graduates of any school you plan to attend to make sure the environment sounds like somewhere you'd like to spend a large proportion of your remaining time.


I echo all of this.

Sorry to hear about your diagnosis, but it doesn't change the validity of the advice here. I'd only add that if you aren't already talking to someone about coping with this, you should be. Speaking from experience, it's extremely common to react to trauma by making snap decisions to try and take back control. That's not a good or a bad thing, but even as someone who actually enjoys law school, I'd suggest taking some more time to digest what's happened and make sure you're making the right decisions for you. As icechicken said, it's totally up to you what you do with your remaining time, but even people who have dreamed of becoming lawyers find law school extremely stressful and demotivating. It might not be the most comforting environment for someone dealing with a diagnosis like this.

ejtqaznkmh
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Re: GPA Addendum make sense?

Postby ejtqaznkmh » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:32 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
Sorry to hear about your diagnosis,


I'd rather you didn't. It was just becoming annoying to have to justify myself. How do I get this whole thread deleted?




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