taking the LSAT for the fourth time, surely this looks bad

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Economyclass
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taking the LSAT for the fourth time, surely this looks bad

Postby Economyclass » Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:26 pm

So I've taken the LSAT three times already, 162, 168, and if things go well today, low 170s.

But if I bombed it does it really make sense for me to register for a fourth time? I work full time and I enjoy the work, but room for growth is limited, but i'm flexible in when to apply to law school...so both time/costs are not an issue.

I know law schools supposedly don't care about multiple LSATs, but what if I had four or five scores? Even if the highest score is above their top percentile, surely they would raise an eyebrow at my application, and this would reflect negatively on me?

can't help but be a little worried.

EDIT: if I can somehow score in the high 170s, I would have a shot at HLS, would HLS care if I had taken the LSAT 4-5 times to get the score they want?

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CardozoLaw09
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Re: taking the LSAT for the fourth time, surely this looks bad

Postby CardozoLaw09 » Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:05 pm

If you get a 168 or lower, retake. No eyebrows will be raised

I think Y cares, though I'm not sure to what extent, if you take it multiple times, but don't think that that's true for H, so feel free to give it another go

acceptmeplshys
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Re: taking the LSAT for the fourth time, surely this looks bad

Postby acceptmeplshys » Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:15 pm

I'm in a similar situation, so I look forward to responses in this thread - ive taken the LSAT three times, two reportable scores and one cancel. My high score is something any normal applicant would be very satisfied with, but I'd really like to increase a couple points to give myself a good shot at H. I worry that H and S adcoms will think I'm a bit crazy for devoting so much time and money to this.

One other question I'll add - Do schools know that youre registered for a future LSAT once youve submitted an app? I want HYS to wait for my December score but would rather have every other school consider ASAP

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sharris2017
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Re: taking the LSAT for the fourth time, surely this looks bad

Postby sharris2017 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:28 pm

acceptmeplshys wrote:I'm in a similar situation, so I look forward to responses in this thread - ive taken the LSAT three times, two reportable scores and one cancel. My high score is something any normal applicant would be very satisfied with, but I'd really like to increase a couple points to give myself a good shot at H. I worry that H and S adcoms will think I'm a bit crazy for devoting so much time and money to this.

One other question I'll add - Do schools know that youre registered for a future LSAT once youve submitted an app? I want HYS to wait for my December score but would rather have every other school consider ASAP


1) If you keep going up, then it's just a narrative of persistent growth. If you start going down on multiple scores, there are some questions that emerge.

2) Apparently, there is a discernible difference between 4 and 5 takes. I would stop after 4 unless you really believe you can knock it out of the park.

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Nagster5
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Re: taking the LSAT for the fourth time, surely this looks bad

Postby Nagster5 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:11 pm

You should post this thread again with a different screenname, no one will notice

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appind
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Re: taking the LSAT for the fourth time, surely this looks bad

Postby appind » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:01 pm

sharris2017 wrote:
acceptmeplshys wrote:I'm in a similar situation, so I look forward to responses in this thread - ive taken the LSAT three times, two reportable scores and one cancel. My high score is something any normal applicant would be very satisfied with, but I'd really like to increase a couple points to give myself a good shot at H. I worry that H and S adcoms will think I'm a bit crazy for devoting so much time and money to this.

One other question I'll add - Do schools know that youre registered for a future LSAT once youve submitted an app? I want HYS to wait for my December score but would rather have every other school consider ASAP


1) If you keep going up, then it's just a narrative of persistent growth. If you start going down on multiple scores, there are some questions that emerge.

2) Apparently, there is a discernible difference between 4 and 5 takes. I would stop after 4 unless you really believe you can knock it out of the park.


imo with the new rule about no limits on lsat takes in 2 yr period, there is a somewhat implicit acceptance of multiple takes so up till 4 takes should be no issues.

cavalier1138
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Re: taking the LSAT for the fourth time, surely this looks bad

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:31 pm

appind wrote:imo with the new rule about no limits on lsat takes in 2 yr period, there is a somewhat implicit acceptance of multiple takes so up till 4 takes should be no issues.


To be fair, that's LSAC's rule, not the schools'. I don't know if we have any indication of how much >4 takes will affect applications, because it's such a rare situation, but it seems like it's bound to have some sort of eyebrow-raising effect if the one high take is an outlier. Then again, if the school is being cynical, they only have to report the good score, so they may not care.

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greatspirit
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Re: taking the LSAT for the fourth time, surely this looks bad

Postby greatspirit » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:05 pm

Bumping.

Taking in December 2017. This will be my second take, but my first reported one (cancelled September 2016).

I have this somewhat mental plan of taking every single LSAT between now and November 30th. 2018 (so December 2017, February 2018, June 2018, September 2018, and November 2018). These immediate deadlines will give me a sense of urgency and help motivate me to study daily (but conversely...knowing that this December take is just my "first of many takes" has resulted in my not studying not nearly enough as I should be for December).

Mostly adopted this policy because 1) of the new LSAC rule, and 2) the narrative of "persistent growth" I could take in an addendum.

Any huge problems with me doing this?

lobsicle
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Re: taking the LSAT for the fourth time, surely this looks bad

Postby lobsicle » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:10 pm

greatspirit wrote:Bumping.

Taking in December 2017. This will be my second take, but my first reported one (cancelled September 2016).

I have this somewhat mental plan of taking every single LSAT between now and November 30th. 2018 (so December 2017, February 2018, June 2018, September 2018, and November 2018). These immediate deadlines will give me a sense of urgency and help motivate me to study daily (but conversely...knowing that this December take is just my "first of many takes" has resulted in my not studying not nearly enough as I should be for December).

Mostly adopted this policy because 1) of the new LSAC rule, and 2) the narrative of "persistent growth" I could take in an addendum.

Any huge problems with me doing this?


Yeah it seems like a problem because (1) you're wasting money and if you can get away with reporting just one score, then do it. (2) Although it's not bad to report 2 scores, maybe not bad to report 3 scores, more than that may be pushing it for some schools.

(3) Plus if you're actually studying intensely for that long, you'll surely exhaust all study materials.

(4) You won't have a good study mindset with such a plan.

(5) no guarantee your score will "persistently grow"

tl;dr Study until you are several points above the score you want, then take the test.

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greatspirit
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Re: taking the LSAT for the fourth time, surely this looks bad

Postby greatspirit » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:20 pm

lobsicle wrote:
greatspirit wrote:Bumping.

Taking in December 2017. This will be my second take, but my first reported one (cancelled September 2016).

I have this somewhat mental plan of taking every single LSAT between now and November 30th. 2018 (so December 2017, February 2018, June 2018, September 2018, and November 2018). These immediate deadlines will give me a sense of urgency and help motivate me to study daily (but conversely...knowing that this December take is just my "first of many takes" has resulted in my not studying not nearly enough as I should be for December).

Mostly adopted this policy because 1) of the new LSAC rule, and 2) the narrative of "persistent growth" I could take in an addendum.

Any huge problems with me doing this?


Yeah it seems like a problem because (1) you're wasting money and if you can get away with reporting just one score, then do it. (2) Although it's not bad to report 2 scores, maybe not bad to report 3 scores, more than that may be pushing it for some schools.

(3) Plus if you're actually studying intensely for that long, you'll surely exhaust all study materials.

(4) You won't have a good study mindset with such a plan.

(5) no guarantee your score will "persistently grow"

tl;dr Study until you are several points above the score you want, then take the test.


Re 1) I’ve wasted a fair amount of money these past 3 years since graduating undergrad/not taking the law school process seriously enough. The $900 id spend taking it 5 times is sort of “motivational punishment.”

Re 2) This all seems like a big “maybe” that people can’t hammer down on

Re 3) I’m studying with a “full-time job” schedule - I’m lucky if I can squeeze 10 hours in a week. Doing the 7Sage course now, started a month ago. Highly, highly, HIGHLY doubt that I can exhaust the entire course, every prep test & the Manhattan LR over the next year of studying at the rate I can realistically study.

Re 4) I’ve had bad “study mindsets” repeatedly throughout school, so might as well try something new. It seems to actually be working for me for once.

Re 5) I’m looking at a 144-148 this take - once I get above 160, then I can worry about the hitting a wall of persistent growth.

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greatspirit
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Re: taking the LSAT for the fourth time, surely this looks bad

Postby greatspirit » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:23 pm

However...I have been thinking about not taking February, mostly because I honestly would have some issues affording it. That would push my next retake to June. That sets up another conondrum - while I have this “plan” to take it 5 times...ideally my June 2018 Take is the one I hit it out of the park on, as then I could translate that time investing studying into my applications/essays.

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april_ludgate
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Re: taking the LSAT for the fourth time, surely this looks bad

Postby april_ludgate » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:42 pm

I really would not take the test if you're aiming to eventually be in the 160s+ and currently expecting in the 140s. You don't want that take on your record needlessly.

lobsicle
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Re: taking the LSAT for the fourth time, surely this looks bad

Postby lobsicle » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:09 pm

greatspirit wrote:
lobsicle wrote:
greatspirit wrote:Bumping.

Taking in December 2017. This will be my second take, but my first reported one (cancelled September 2016).

I have this somewhat mental plan of taking every single LSAT between now and November 30th. 2018 (so December 2017, February 2018, June 2018, September 2018, and November 2018). These immediate deadlines will give me a sense of urgency and help motivate me to study daily (but conversely...knowing that this December take is just my "first of many takes" has resulted in my not studying not nearly enough as I should be for December).

Mostly adopted this policy because 1) of the new LSAC rule, and 2) the narrative of "persistent growth" I could take in an addendum.

Any huge problems with me doing this?


Yeah it seems like a problem because (1) you're wasting money and if you can get away with reporting just one score, then do it. (2) Although it's not bad to report 2 scores, maybe not bad to report 3 scores, more than that may be pushing it for some schools.

(3) Plus if you're actually studying intensely for that long, you'll surely exhaust all study materials.

(4) You won't have a good study mindset with such a plan.

(5) no guarantee your score will "persistently grow"

tl;dr Study until you are several points above the score you want, then take the test.


Re 1) I’ve wasted a fair amount of money these past 3 years since graduating undergrad/not taking the law school process seriously enough. The $900 id spend taking it 5 times is sort of “motivational punishment.”

Re 2) This all seems like a big “maybe” that people can’t hammer down on

Re 3) I’m studying with a “full-time job” schedule - I’m lucky if I can squeeze 10 hours in a week. Doing the 7Sage course now, started a month ago. Highly, highly, HIGHLY doubt that I can exhaust the entire course, every prep test & the Manhattan LR over the next year of studying at the rate I can realistically study.

Re 4) I’ve had bad “study mindsets” repeatedly throughout school, so might as well try something new. It seems to actually be working for me for once.

Re 5) I’m looking at a 144-148 this take - once I get above 160, then I can worry about the hitting a wall of persistent growth.


greatspirit wrote:However...I have been thinking about not taking February, mostly because I honestly would have some issues affording it. That would push my next retake to June. That sets up another conondrum - while I have this “plan” to take it 5 times...ideally my June 2018 Take is the one I hit it out of the park on, as then I could translate that time investing studying into my applications/essays.


I'm not trying to be rude here, but your plan is so bad that I'm pretty sure you're trolling. My 5 points were a nice way of trying to say "you're plan is really, really, really terrible." If you're not trolling, you're plan is really, really, really terrible. Don't do it.

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greatspirit
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Re: taking the LSAT for the fourth time, surely this looks bad

Postby greatspirit » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:10 pm

lobsicle wrote:
greatspirit wrote:
lobsicle wrote:
greatspirit wrote:Bumping.

Taking in December 2017. This will be my second take, but my first reported one (cancelled September 2016).

I have this somewhat mental plan of taking every single LSAT between now and November 30th. 2018 (so December 2017, February 2018, June 2018, September 2018, and November 2018). These immediate deadlines will give me a sense of urgency and help motivate me to study daily (but conversely...knowing that this December take is just my "first of many takes" has resulted in my not studying not nearly enough as I should be for December).

Mostly adopted this policy because 1) of the new LSAC rule, and 2) the narrative of "persistent growth" I could take in an addendum.

Any huge problems with me doing this?


Yeah it seems like a problem because (1) you're wasting money and if you can get away with reporting just one score, then do it. (2) Although it's not bad to report 2 scores, maybe not bad to report 3 scores, more than that may be pushing it for some schools.

(3) Plus if you're actually studying intensely for that long, you'll surely exhaust all study materials.

(4) You won't have a good study mindset with such a plan.

(5) no guarantee your score will "persistently grow"

tl;dr Study until you are several points above the score you want, then take the test.


Re 1) I’ve wasted a fair amount of money these past 3 years since graduating undergrad/not taking the law school process seriously enough. The $900 id spend taking it 5 times is sort of “motivational punishment.”

Re 2) This all seems like a big “maybe” that people can’t hammer down on

Re 3) I’m studying with a “full-time job” schedule - I’m lucky if I can squeeze 10 hours in a week. Doing the 7Sage course now, started a month ago. Highly, highly, HIGHLY doubt that I can exhaust the entire course, every prep test & the Manhattan LR over the next year of studying at the rate I can realistically study.

Re 4) I’ve had bad “study mindsets” repeatedly throughout school, so might as well try something new. It seems to actually be working for me for once.

Re 5) I’m looking at a 144-148 this take - once I get above 160, then I can worry about the hitting a wall of persistent growth.


greatspirit wrote:However...I have been thinking about not taking February, mostly because I honestly would have some issues affording it. That would push my next retake to June. That sets up another conondrum - while I have this “plan” to take it 5 times...ideally my June 2018 Take is the one I hit it out of the park on, as then I could translate that time investing studying into my applications/essays.


I'm not trying to be rude here, but your plan is so bad that I'm pretty sure you're trolling. My 5 points were a nice way of trying to say "you're plan is really, really, really terrible." If you're not trolling, you're plan is really, really, really terrible. Don't do it.


Not trolling. Not sure why my plan is "bad." I know my disposition, and I believe this is the best way to get the fire under my ass.

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greatspirit
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Re: taking the LSAT for the fourth time, surely this looks bad

Postby greatspirit » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:11 pm

I'm also not a 4.0/175 student, so perhaps your advice just doesn't apply to someone unfortunately not as intelligent :D

38981928
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Re: taking the LSAT for the fourth time, surely this looks bad

Postby 38981928 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:14 pm

april_ludgate wrote:I really would not take the test if you're aiming to eventually be in the 160s+ and currently expecting in the 140s. You don't want that take on your record needlessly.


This exactly. Especially since they see ALL your scores, if you're only marginally increasing each time and/or need an unusual number of takes, that might make you look like you have poor planning and time management skills (which would be important in law school). Also, many people work full time, volunteer and/or have a family to take care of, and get the score they want (170s and up) within 2-3 tries, so I don't think "perseverance" would be a great thing to see in your app if you don't have a legitimately good reason for having to retake so many times.

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icechicken
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Re: taking the LSAT for the fourth time, surely this looks bad

Postby icechicken » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:16 pm

greatspirit wrote:I’ve wasted a fair amount of money these past 3 years since graduating undergrad/not taking the law school process seriously enough. The $900 id spend taking it 5 times is sort of “motivational punishment.”


If you want to spend $900 punishing yourself it's probably better to just hire a professional.

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greatspirit
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Re: taking the LSAT for the fourth time, surely this looks bad

Postby greatspirit » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:20 pm

38981928 wrote:
april_ludgate wrote:I really would not take the test if you're aiming to eventually be in the 160s+ and currently expecting in the 140s. You don't want that take on your record needlessly.


This exactly. Especially since they see ALL your scores, if you're only marginally increasing each time and/or need an unusual number of takes, that might make you look like you have poor planning and time management skills (which would be important in law school). Also, many people work full time, volunteer and/or have a family to take care of, and get the score they want (170s and up) within 2-3 tries, so I don't think "perseverance" would be a great thing to see in your app if you don't have a legitimately good reason for having to retake so many times.


Great, thank you for these thoughts.

cavalier1138
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Re: taking the LSAT for the fourth time, surely this looks bad

Postby cavalier1138 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:02 pm

greatspirit wrote:I'm also not a 4.0/175 student, so perhaps your advice just doesn't apply to someone unfortunately not as intelligent :D


Except you apparently were a 2-or-3.X/175 student six years ago, which just adds a whole level of absurdity to this whole plan.

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greatspirit
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Re: taking the LSAT for the fourth time, surely this looks bad

Postby greatspirit » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:29 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
greatspirit wrote:I'm also not a 4.0/175 student, so perhaps your advice just doesn't apply to someone unfortunately not as intelligent :D


Except you apparently were a 2-or-3.X/175 student six years ago, which just adds a whole level of absurdity to this whole plan.


Not sure how my naively optimistic "chancing" from when I was an undergrad is relevant.

I'm done now. It's a stupid, absurd plan for a stupid, absurd person. Because 3 takes is fine, but 4 takes shows incompetence. The elitism of this board is sickening.

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Platopus
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Re: taking the LSAT for the fourth time, surely this looks bad

Postby Platopus » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:34 pm

greatspirit wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
greatspirit wrote:I'm also not a 4.0/175 student, so perhaps your advice just doesn't apply to someone unfortunately not as intelligent :D


Except you apparently were a 2-or-3.X/175 student six years ago, which just adds a whole level of absurdity to this whole plan.


Not sure how my naively optimistic "chancing" from when I was an undergrad is relevant.

I'm done now. It's a stupid, absurd plan for a stupid, absurd person. Because 3 takes is fine, but 4 takes shows incompetence. The elitism of this board is sickening.


I think the idea is that 4 takes (when some of those takes you know aren't going to be your best) is the issue.

Treat every test like it's your only shot if you really want to get motivated.

cavalier1138
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Re: taking the LSAT for the fourth time, surely this looks bad

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:41 am

greatspirit wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
greatspirit wrote:I'm also not a 4.0/175 student, so perhaps your advice just doesn't apply to someone unfortunately not as intelligent :D


Except you apparently were a 2-or-3.X/175 student six years ago, which just adds a whole level of absurdity to this whole plan.


Not sure how my naively optimistic "chancing" from when I was an undergrad is relevant.

I'm done now. It's a stupid, absurd plan for a stupid, absurd person. Because 3 takes is fine, but 4 takes shows incompetence. The elitism of this board is sickening.


How, exactly, is any of the feedback you've gotten elitist?




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