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Hold out for Stamford or ED to Columbia? [Split Decision]

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:23 pm
by London_LA
I have a 2.5 (3.1 in major) / 178 split.

I don't think the calcultors are very accurate for so big a split, but it says I have 30-50% chance of getting into Columbia and a 0-10% chance of getting into Stanford.

I think the rest of my application is strong. Good recommendations, unique PS, 4 years of good work experience, undergrad degree from a strong CA college looked favourably on by Stanford admissions, and a good high-school record from a top international school.

Do I have any realistic shot at Stanford? If my real chances are 0-5%, I think it is worth increasing my chances of admission at Columbia. I'd happily take both, and Columbia is a great school and a great city, but I am from CA and Stanford is my dream law school.

Re: Hold out for Stamford or ED to Columbia? [Split Decision]

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:30 pm
by cavalier1138
You aren't getting Stanford with that GPA. Columbia can be splitter-friendly, but a <3.0 GPA is poison at HYSCCNP (and Berkeley). You're going to have to apply broadly, but I hope you're prepared to go somewhere that isn't Columbia or Stanford.

And ED rarely increases your chances of admission anywhere (although some data suggest that it might at UVA), so I wouldn't bother with that.

ETA: I have no idea what you put in to MyLSN to give yourself any shot at Columbia, but it sure as hell wasn't your numbers. I had to boost your GPA significantly to find anything resembling positive results, even with a high LSAT.

Re: Hold out for Stamford or ED to Columbia? [Split Decision]

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:31 pm
by theconsigliere
London_LA wrote:I have a 2.5 (3.1 in major) / 178 split.

I don't think the calcultors are very accurate for so big a split, but it says I have 30-50% chance of getting into Columbia and a 0-10% chance of getting into Stanford.

I think the rest of my application is strong. Good recommendations, unique PS, 4 years of good work experience, undergrad degree from a strong CA college looked favourably on by Stanford admissions, and a good high-school record from a top international school.

Do I have any realistic shot at Stanford? If my real chances are 0-5%, I think it is worth increasing my chances of admission at Columbia. I'd happily take both, and Columbia is a great school and a great city, but I am from CA and Stanford is my dream law school.


Unlike undergrad admissions, ED doesn't do much, if anything, to increase chances of admission at Columbia, or anywhere else.

Re: Hold out for Stamford or ED to Columbia? [Split Decision]

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:52 pm
by London_LA
Yeah that is something I didn't consider, how much use ED really would be. I would be happy to take Columbia over every school except Stanford though, so if there is any advantage to ED with Columbia it is worth pursuing if I do not have any real chance at Stanford. I know they aren't splitter friendly but without data around my numbers I am hesitant to pass up a 5-10% shot there if those are my real chances.

I used some of the older calculators. MyLSN doesn't have any data for my numbers so if you put them in you get 0% for all schools.

I'm applying to 23 schools, probably in a wave of 12 and then another 11 in November/December if I don't get in anywhere. I ran the math and the 23 I picked theoretically give me a cumulative percentage chance of admittance approaching 100%.

Re: Hold out for Stamford or ED to Columbia? [Split Decision]

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:43 pm
by Mullens
Unless you have something very special in your background, I doubt you get into either. I'd place your odds at Stanford at roughly 0.

Re: Hold out for Stamford or ED to Columbia? [Split Decision]

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:46 pm
by sparkytrainer
Unfortunately, you have a 2.5. That is a pretty garbage GPA. You likely will strike out from the t13 in totality. Look in the 20-30 range where someone will take a risk on you- most likely WUSTL.

I put your chances at Stanford and Columbia at 0%.

Re: Hold out for Stamford or ED to Columbia? [Split Decision]

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:47 pm
by UVA2B
Mullens wrote:Unless you have something very special in your background, I doubt you get into either. I'd place your odds at Stanford at roughly 0.


I wanted to make a "Princess Kate with 3 kids might get in" joke, but OP provided too much info to refute that.

OP, you're in a tough spot as such a splitter, and you shouldn't look at the lack of data as a positive to think your chances are better. What you should do is expand your search. Try putting in numbers on http://mylsn.info that show a range of 175-180 LSAT and 2.0-3.0 GPA. That'll give you more data points, and show you just how dire your situation likely is in the T13.

You don't have much/any shot at Stanford/Columbia.

Re: Hold out for Stamford or ED to Columbia? [Split Decision]

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:13 pm
by poptart123
Stamford will probably be a no-go because it doesn't exist. ED Columbia if you would like but honestly, and unfortunately, with your GPA it's going to be rough. Look at some t20-t30 schools like WUSTL and NDLS and you might get some decent money. Make sure you want to work where they place, but I guess you can't be too picky. Best of luck OP.

Re: Hold out for Stamford or ED to Columbia? [Split Decision]

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:19 pm
by Justtrying2help
Your best chance of cracking the t-13 is at Northwestern due to their willingness to consider high lsat splitters. Your chance of gaining acceptance into Stanford or Columbia is near zero. You have a reasonably good chance at getting accepted into WUSTL. If you are interested in biglaw, you likely won't get into a school that gives you a 50% chance of gaining that type of employment. One thing you have going for you is the fact that you definitely have the aptitude to perform well in law school. This is purely evidenced by your lsat score. If you developed a work ethic from your full time work experience, there is a good chance that it will translate into the classroom. Please post the results of your cycle after you get your offers of acceptance.

Re: Hold out for Stamford or ED to Columbia? [Split Decision]

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:24 pm
by UVA2B
Justtrying2help wrote:Your best chance of cracking the t-13 is at Northwestern due to their willingness to consider high lsat splitters. Your chance of gaining acceptance into Stanford or Columbia is near zero. You have a reasonably good chance at getting accepted into WUSTL. If you are interested in biglaw, you likely won't get into a school that gives you a 50% chance of gaining that type of employment. One thing you have going for you is the fact that you definitely have the aptitude to perform well in law school. This is purely evidenced by your lsat score. If you developed a work ethic from your full time work experience, there is a good chance that it will translates into the classroom. Please post the results of your cycle after you get your offers of acceptance.


[insert obligatory study that shows a weak correlation between LSAT alone and law school GPA done by LSAC]

I get trying to encourage them to apply to places that will accept the OP, but there isn't a good correlation to LSAT and law school GPA, and further, making it about a 50/50 gamble makes the advice particularly risky.

Re: Hold out for Stamford or ED to Columbia? [Split Decision]

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:36 pm
by Justtrying2help
Yeah law school is a tough place to perform, primarily due to the fact that your peers are just as smart and hardworking as yourself. If I were OP, I would only take the chance if I got into Northwestern or better with money. If not, I would run away from law.

Re: Hold out for Stamford or ED to Columbia? [Split Decision]

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:53 pm
by URMSenator52
Apply to UVA (ED),WUSTL (ED),GULC,Fordham,GW.. With your numbers you still have T30 shot with $$$.. Then transfer to CCN or Stanford after 1L.

Re: Hold out for Stamford or ED to Columbia? [Split Decision]

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:14 pm
by etramak
ED at Northwestern for the full ride

Re: Hold out for Stamford or ED to Columbia? [Split Decision]

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:14 pm
by Mullens
URMSenator52 wrote:Apply to UVA (ED),WUSTL (ED),GULC,Fordham,GW.. With your numbers you still have T30 shot with $$$.. Then transfer to CCN or Stanford after 1L.


This is a joke, right? Let me guess you're a 0L. Transferring is very difficult and no one should attend law school with the plan to transfer.

Re: Hold out for Stamford or ED to Columbia? [Split Decision]

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:26 pm
by A. Nony Mouse
etramak wrote:ED at Northwestern for the full ride

NU uses the ED full ride to lure top students to the school, so it's not a great option for splitters hoping just to get in.

Re: Hold out for Stamford or ED to Columbia? [Split Decision]

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:27 pm
by URMSenator52
Mullens wrote:
URMSenator52 wrote:Apply to UVA (ED),WUSTL (ED),GULC,Fordham,GW.. With your numbers you still have T30 shot with $$$.. Then transfer to CCN or Stanford after 1L.


This is a joke, right? Let me guess you're a 0L. Transferring is very difficult and no one should attend law school with the plan to transfer.


Obviously,you should not go to law school with the intent to transfer. If OP is in the top 5-10% then OP obviously can transfer if desired. Do you read 509's?

Re: Hold out for Stamford or ED to Columbia? [Split Decision]

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:29 pm
by A. Nony Mouse
URMSenator52 wrote:
Mullens wrote:
URMSenator52 wrote:Apply to UVA (ED),WUSTL (ED),GULC,Fordham,GW.. With your numbers you still have T30 shot with $$$.. Then transfer to CCN or Stanford after 1L.


This is a joke, right? Let me guess you're a 0L. Transferring is very difficult and no one should attend law school with the plan to transfer.


Obviously,you should not go to law school with the intent to transfer. If OP is in the top 5-10% then OP obviously can transfer. Do you read 509's?

And if wishes were horses, beggars would ride. Transferring isn't something that should be considered at this point.

Re: Hold out for Stamford or ED to Columbia? [Split Decision]

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:40 pm
by etramak
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
etramak wrote:ED at Northwestern for the full ride

NU uses the ED full ride to lure top students to the school, so it's not a great option for splitters hoping just to get in.


Really? I thought I've seen data on mylsn of high lsat splitters getting in this way.

Re: Hold out for Stamford or ED to Columbia? [Split Decision]

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:41 pm
by A. Nony Mouse
High LSAT splitters get into NU and can even get money, but not usually the ED full ride.

Re: Hold out for Stamford or ED to Columbia? [Split Decision]

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:55 pm
by London_LA
I'm not going into law for the money trust me. I'm already better paid than I would be 10 years in at big law. So don't care too much about where I get in.

I'm applying to UCLA, Hastings, Davis, Irvine, Hawaii...Texas, Boston, and GW if necessary...all of which I'd gladly take if I am lucky enough to get in. I think I have a more reasonable shot at those schools and would be happy for three years at them. But yeah, no doubt I'd have one eye on crushing L1 and transferring to Stanford etc

I was thinking Northwestern was my best shot at a top school. Great school too. Sounds like I should be going ED there.

One thing's for sure tho: I ain't going to fucking Missouri.

Re: Hold out for Stamford or ED to Columbia? [Split Decision]

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:04 am
by London_LA
Separate question. Do schools offer $$$ if you don't ask for aid? I was planning on not asking for aid but a discount would be nice.

And if I went ED to Northwestern, would that affect how much $$$ versus putting them into competition with other schools with regular decision?

Re: Hold out for Stamford or ED to Columbia? [Split Decision]

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:12 am
by theconsigliere
London_LA wrote:I'm not going into law for the money trust me. I'm already better paid than I would be 10 years in at big law. So don't care too much about where I get in.



So you make >300k? I, and I suspect others, will be very interested to hear why you want to go to law school. It seems like a particularly bad idea for someone with your gpa and your current salary

Re: Hold out for Stamford or ED to Columbia? [Split Decision]

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:51 am
by cavalier1138
London_LA wrote:One thing's for sure tho: I ain't going to fucking Missouri.


Ever hear the expression "Beggars can't be choosers?" You're not in a position to be pretentious about where you go for your JD.

London_LA wrote:I'm not going into law for the money trust me. I'm already better paid than I would be 10 years in at big law. So don't care too much about where I get in.


So what do you want to do with your degree?

London_LA wrote:I was thinking Northwestern was my best shot at a top school. Great school too. Sounds like I should be going ED there.


Northwestern is your best bet for the T13, but it would be pointless to ED there with your numbers (for reasons that have already been discussed).

London_LA wrote:But yeah, no doubt I'd have one eye on crushing L1 and transferring to Stanford etc


Again, why? Looking beyond the obvious (you can't plan on crushing 1L and being able to transfer), why are you focusing so heavily on Stanford?

London_LA wrote:Separate question. Do schools offer $$$ if you don't ask for aid? I was planning on not asking for aid but a discount would be nice.


Most aid is merit-based, so yes, most schools will offer scholarships without you having to apply separately.

Re: Hold out for Stamford or ED to Columbia? [Split Decision]

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:52 am
by cavalier1138
URMSenator52 wrote:Apply to UVA (ED),WUSTL (ED),GULC,Fordham,GW.. With your numbers you still have T30 shot with $$$.. Then transfer to CCN or Stanford after 1L.


Stop.

Re: Hold out for Stamford or ED to Columbia? [Split Decision]

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:03 am
by MrAdultman
.