Physician, MBA, 3.8 UGPA, LSAT=152

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aalian

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Physician, MBA, 3.8 UGPA, LSAT=152

Postby aalian » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:37 pm

hello,

I am 38 years old and I have worked as an emergency medicine physician for the last 7 years..I graduated from medical school in 2005, I graduated from business school and received an MBA in 2016...initially, I had thought of becoming a hospital administrator but I have found myself becoming jaded with the practice of medicine and hospital administration. I actually would like to become a plaintiff malpractice attorney. While most doctors I know are scrupulous caring physicians, I also see unscrupulous physicians who are making millions by working emergency physicians to the bone without regard for patient for physician well being. they were publicly traded and private emergency physician conglomerates that have partnered with equity capital who only care about profits without regard for patient safety and care. if you were not seeing X number of patients per hour and generating extra income for our company, you Will be fired-plain and simple. this leads to a situation that is high risk. the amount of patients seen each hour and the amount of money generated from each patient is published for everyone in the physician group to see resulting in an environment where physicians are rushing to see people for fear of being shamed and being "slow." I have seen surgeons send patients in through the emergency department for nonemergent surgeries so they can bill as out of network providers. The surgeons are millions each year by sending these patients in through the emergency department when the surgery could be scheduled on an outpatient basis. Instead of The insurance company spending $2000 for gallbladder removal, the insurance company spends $50,000. Anything the insurance company does not pay for is "balance billed' and the patient becomes responsible for the difference between what the insurance pays and what the surgeon charges and I believe that I can help patients as a lawyer by protecting them from the corporate practice of medicine. The corporate practice medicine is not A big thing in and of it self, but it can lead to profits rather then patients being the priority.

so my stats speak for themselves and my LSAT is problematic for a top-tier school. I can only afford to go to law part time law schools as I have to work full-time (34 hours a week). do I have any chance of getting into Georgetown, George Washington University, or one of the other top-tier part-time law schools. I am not taking the LSAT again, so it's not an option even though it is likely the only thing that may hold me back fromgetting into a top law school.

I am hoping my accomplishments as a physician/MBA graduate/ultrasonographer/AmeriCorps graduate will be enough for the top-tier schools to overlook my 52nd percentile LSAT score.

any help/guidance would be appreciated?

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Sprout

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Re: Physician, MBA, 3.8 UGPA, LSAT=152

Postby Sprout » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:42 pm

aalian wrote:hello,

I am 38 years old and I have worked as an emergency medicine physician for the last 7 years..I graduated from medical school in 2005, I graduated from business school and received an MBA in 2016...initially, I had thought of becoming a hospital administrator but I have found myself becoming jaded with the practice of medicine and hospital administration. I actually would like to become a plaintiff malpractice attorney. While most doctors I know are scrupulous caring physicians, I also see unscrupulous physicians who are making millions by working emergency physicians to the bone without regard for patient for physician well being. they were publicly traded and private emergency physician conglomerates that have partnered with equity capital who only care about profits without regard for patient safety and care. if you were not seeing X number of patients per hour and generating extra income for our company, you Will be fired-plain and simple. this leads to a situation that is high risk. the amount of patients seen each hour and the amount of money generated from each patient is published for everyone in the physician group to see resulting in an environment where physicians are rushing to see people for fear of being shamed and being "slow." I have seen surgeons send patients in through the emergency department for nonemergent surgeries so they can bill as out of network providers. The surgeons are millions each year by sending these patients in through the emergency department when the surgery could be scheduled on an outpatient basis. Instead of The insurance company spending $2000 for gallbladder removal, the insurance company spends $50,000. Anything the insurance company does not pay for is "balance billed' and the patient becomes responsible for the difference between what the insurance pays and what the surgeon charges and I believe that I can help patients as a lawyer by protecting them from the corporate practice of medicine. The corporate practice medicine is not A big thing in and of it self, but it can lead to profits rather then patients being the priority.

so my stats speak for themselves and my LSAT is problematic for a top-tier school. I can only afford to go to law part time law schools as I have to work full-time (34 hours a week). do I have any chance of getting into Georgetown, George Washington University, or one of the other top-tier part-time law schools. I am not taking the LSAT again, so it's not an option even though it is likely the only thing that may hold me back fromgetting into a top law school.

I am hoping my accomplishments as a physician/MBA graduate/ultrasonographer/AmeriCorps graduate will be enough for the top-tier schools to overlook my 52nd percentile LSAT score.

any help/guidance would be appreciated?

This probably isn't going to be helpful so I'd like to preface it as such and I apologize, but bolded -- from what I have gathered, that isn't different in law whatsoever. My advice is don't go to a shitty law school and get 180k+ debt for a maybe job when you already have an awesome one

edit: it is slightly different, "whatsoever" was poor wording. Point is law is like that too and you seem to have a really targeted idea of what you'd be doing, which could help or hurt you, but the debt will cripple you. Gl

Post script - you could probably get into a splitter school with good softs and credentials like that but not part time I don't think

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UVA2B

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Re: Physician, MBA, 3.8 UGPA, LSAT=152

Postby UVA2B » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:52 pm

I am going to assume this isn't fake, despite there being some pretty big red flags to the contrary, and focus on the question you actually asked. You're unlikely to get into GULC or GWU, even part-time, but it's certainly possible you could sneak in given your demonstrated academic strengths in other disciplines. You have a strong academic record in completing other professional schools, so they might be happy to take your money.

But that said, despite your desire to help plaintiff-side malpractice for the myriad reasons you've allegedly seen, I'm just not sure getting started on med mal is going to fix any of that structurally. And further, most states have a pretty well-articulated definition of the corporate practice of medicine (of course it varies based on the state), and nothing you described will likely really meet that bar.

So how do you expect to change an entire industry that necessarily must balance patient care with financial health? Despite a hippocratic oath, EM groups still need to be profitable to cover overhead and maintain the considerable infrastructural frameworks to keep a business successful. That may come with some profit-seeking in some instances, but if you're finding groups you think are particularly egregious, the most effective way for you to cause that kind of change is to leave that group and find a group that doesn't base compensation on procedures performed, number of patients seen, or some other metric-driven compensation. Getting a few settlements for patients isn't going to be changing the practice of medicine institutionally anytime soon.

Davidpuddy

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Re: Physician, MBA, 3.8 UGPA, LSAT=152

Postby Davidpuddy » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:36 pm

I find it extremely hard to believe you couldn't crack 152. But if this is real, you'd likely have more success advocating for this in your current position as a physician. 0L here, so take this with a grain of salt, but being a medical malpractice attorney seems like you'd just be a cog in the system. It seems more effective to leverage your current occupation, find like-minded physicians and organizations, and get to work.

aalian

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Re: Physician, MBA, 3.8 UGPA, LSAT=1

Postby aalian » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:37 am

i am not trying to change anything besides my career choice and satisfaction with my occupation. i am not a 22 year old fresh out of undergrad who just graduated college who thinks they are are going to change the world. I find law interesting, the detective work, figuriing things out etc. All i am saying is is that i have my reasons for getting out of medicine and i don't really care who believes me. That was just background and I have no idea why someone would come on this site and lie about these things.

The question is with my qualifications MD, MBA, RDMS, RDCS, 3.8 uGPA would that be enough to squeak me into a top tier part time program with my LSAT score of 152. If I do go to law school, it'll probably be in the William Mitchell Hamline Hybrid Program. i was just wondering if it might be possible.

cavalier1138

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Re: Physician, MBA, 3.8 UGPA, LSAT=1

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:11 am

aalian wrote:i am not trying to change anything besides my career choice and satisfaction with my occupation. i am not a 22 year old fresh out of undergrad who just graduated college who thinks they are are going to change the world. I find law interesting, the detective work, figuriing things out etc. All i am saying is is that i have my reasons for getting out of medicine and i don't really care who believes me. That was just background and I have no idea why someone would come on this site and lie about these things.

The question is with my qualifications MD, MBA, RDMS, RDCS, 3.8 uGPA would that be enough to squeak me into a top tier part time program with my LSAT score of 152. If I do go to law school, it'll probably be in the William Mitchell Hamline Hybrid Program. i was just wondering if it might be possible.


If you like detective work, I have a better idea for a career...

And no, your career will not offset your bad LSAT. Retake if this is real, and don't compound any debt left over from med/business school with debt from a terrible part-time program. Also, find out what lawyers actually do, because you clearly haven't bothered to look in to that.

Damage Over Time

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Re: Physician, MBA, 3.8 UGPA, LSAT=152

Postby Damage Over Time » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:31 am

aalian wrote:I am not taking the LSAT again


why not?

silenttimer

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Re: Physician, MBA, 3.8 UGPA, LSAT=152

Postby silenttimer » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:39 am

Damage Over Time wrote:
aalian wrote:I am not taking the LSAT again


why not?


I also have the same question. You can retake September and still apply this cycle (hell, you can even retake December and apply this cycle). You clearly have the intellectual horse power to get at least into the 160s on the LSAT, which likely would get you into GT or GW.

aalian

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Re: Physician, MBA, 3.8 UGPA, LSAT=152

Postby aalian » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:40 am

Not sure why people are hostile on here and why they you would choose to be confrontational and choose to make assumptions that I don't know what lawyers do. I have reviewed cases for lawyers, My family has been involved with a guardianship case and nursing home negligence case, and just received notice of my 1st malpractice case. I am always flattered when someone asks advice from me, but to each their own...

I work a lot. Just did an online course and finishing all 4 games in analytical reasoning was difficult and I only finished 2 games and got 9/23. Did ok on the other sections. I am just kinda done with standardized tests so I will let chips fall where they may.

I am probably going to do the hybrid program at William Mitchell Hamline anyway, as a move to Washington D.C. Is unlikely anyway. I was just wondering about the top tier PT schools.

My question was is it worth applying to top tier PT schools. I was just illustrating some reasons about why I am looking at a different career. The reality is is that not many careers will much my current salary: about 300K. I think the practice of law is interesting and challenging. There is definitely a detective component to piecing together malpractice cases and identifying potential cases. I think a combination of malpractice plaintiff work, expert witness testimony, and case reviews will lead to a stimulating. I have lost my passion for medicine and feel law would be a good fit, so I appreciate those who have provided useful info and could do without the sarcastic derogatory comments. Thank you all

Damage Over Time

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Re: Physician, MBA, 3.8 UGPA, LSAT=152

Postby Damage Over Time » Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:41 am

aalian wrote:I work a lot. Just did an online course and finishing all 4 games in analytical reasoning was difficult and I only finished 2 games and got 9/23. Did ok on the other sections. I am just kinda done with standardized tests so I will let chips fall where they may.



If you practice doing the sections you found difficult, they become easier and you can get more points on the test. If you get more points on the test, you can get into a good program and potentially achieve some of your goals.

cjg243

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Re: Physician, MBA, 3.8 UGPA, LSAT=152

Postby cjg243 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:55 am

aalian wrote:Not sure why people are hostile on here and why they you would choose to be confrontational and choose to make assumptions that I don't know what lawyers do. I have reviewed cases for lawyers, My family has been involved with a guardianship case and nursing home negligence case, and just received notice of my 1st malpractice case. I am always flattered when someone asks advice from me, but to each their own...

I work a lot. Just did an online course and finishing all 4 games in analytical reasoning was difficult and I only finished 2 games and got 9/23. Did ok on the other sections. I am just kinda done with standardized tests so I will let chips fall where they may.

I am probably going to do the hybrid program at William Mitchell Hamline anyway, as a move to Washington D.C. Is unlikely anyway. I was just wondering about the top tier PT schools.

My question was is it worth applying to top tier PT schools. I was just illustrating some reasons about why I am looking at a different career. The reality is is that not many careers will much my current salary: about 300K. I think the practice of law is interesting and challenging. There is definitely a detective component to piecing together malpractice cases and identifying potential cases. I think a combination of malpractice plaintiff work, expert witness testimony, and case reviews will lead to a stimulating. I have lost my passion for medicine and feel law would be a good fit, so I appreciate those who have provided useful info and could do without the sarcastic derogatory comments. Thank you all


Hey man, no one on here is being hostile to you. You asked for advice and they've given it to you. There are a lot of message boards out there that are filled with positive vibes and sugarcoat their messages (GMAT Club comes to mind if you used that when you were applying to bschools), but this isn't one of them. This site has a very realist attitude. It is also very thorough, and doesn't like to give advice based solely on the question asked, but also likes to explore other avenues to ensure that you come out with the best outcome for you. A lot of people can't handle that, and that's perfectly OK. But if you can't, then you might want to look elsewhere for your advice. But I suggest sticking around because the people on here are very knowledgeable about law school and the legal profession.

Below is a summary of the advice you have received so far:
1. Don't go to a shitty law school and get 180K in debt for a job when you already have an awesome one. It sounds like you don't like your job, so only you can answer if you really want to get out of medicine. But my question for you is how do you know you will like law better? As Sprout pointed out, law school is expensive. You currently make more than you likely ever will coming out of a school like Mitchell Hamline. Are you sure you want to make that move?
2. You are unlikely to get into GULC of GWU given your current stats, although you might sneak in to the part time program. This seems to be exactly the advice you were asking for.
3. You won't be able to change the entire medical industry as a lawyer. You seem to know that, but if that is your goal, have you thought of leveraging your medical and MBA experience into a role where you may be able to have an impact? Consulting and public policy both come to mind, and you don't need additional degrees for that. I know you said you are sick of hospital administration, but as a former healthcare consultant, I think administration is exactly the field that would actually be able to enact some of the changes you are concerned with.
4. If you like detective work, then become a detective. Cavalier is being facetious here, but his point stands. You say you know what a lawyer does, and I believe you. But what I have a hard time believing is that you would walk away from such a well paying job that you have worked so hard to get for such uncertainty. You have much more to lose than your average 0L coming out of undergrad. But maybe I am more risk averse than you.
5. Retake the LSAT. This advice is often parrotted on here, but most of the time it is warranted. This is no exception. You seem to be a very smart guy, and a 152 on the LSAT is not good. Law school admissions is more stats driven than other graduate programs, and such a low LSAT is very hard to overcome.

In summary, I would encourage you to be open-minded when asking for advice here. I would also encourage you to really think about whether you want to go to law school at all, as I think you have other career options available to you that are more lucrative, more enjoyable, and less expensive. And finally, if you are really set on going to law school, please retake the LSAT and make sure you go to a school that will allow you to accomplish your goals.



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