JD for international

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ghytu48
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JD for international

Postby ghytu48 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:29 pm

Hi guys,

My case: international, GPA 3.9/4, LSAT (expected) 175+, 6 years of experience in accounting, GMAT 96%, need financial aid either in loans or scholarships.
Have I any chance to study law in the US/Canada/Australia with no money? Should I continue to study LSAT? What are my chances? Any advice?

cavalier1138
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Re: JD for international

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:39 pm

Get an actual LSAT first. Your GPA will put you in a great position, but a hypothetical LSAT score means that no one can evaluate you chances.

foreignlawquestions
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Re: JD for international

Postby foreignlawquestions » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:39 pm

How do you know what your expected LSAT is? People have done practice tests and scored very high and not done as well on the LSAT. You should know more when you actually take the test.

sanzgo
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Re: JD for international

Postby sanzgo » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:49 pm

ghytu48 wrote:Hi guys,

My case: international, GPA 3.9/4, LSAT (expected) 175+, 6 years of experience in accounting, GMAT 96%, need financial aid either in loans or scholarships.
Have I any chance to study law in the US/Canada/Australia with no money? Should I continue to study LSAT? What are my chances? Any advice?


lol dis guy...

if the gpa is a US undergrad gpa, and you get 175+, then you have a decent chance for a big scholly

if it's an international undergrad gpa, not that great.

ghytu48
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:42 am

Re: JD for international

Postby ghytu48 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:51 pm

foreignlawquestions wrote:How do you know what your expected LSAT is? People have done practice tests and scored very high and not done as well on the LSAT. You should know more when you actually take the test.

You are right, but the question is more about should I invest time and money in LSAT? Do I have a chance with no law experience, no US undergrad, no money?

ghytu48
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:42 am

Re: JD for international

Postby ghytu48 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:52 pm

sanzgo wrote:
ghytu48 wrote:Hi guys,

My case: international, GPA 3.9/4, LSAT (expected) 175+, 6 years of experience in accounting, GMAT 96%, need financial aid either in loans or scholarships.
Have I any chance to study law in the US/Canada/Australia with no money? Should I continue to study LSAT? What are my chances? Any advice?


lol dis guy...

if the gpa is a US undergrad gpa, and you get 175+, then you have a decent chance for a big scholly

if it's an international undergrad gpa, not that great.

It is an international GPA. Do I still have a chance?

sanzgo
Posts: 46
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Re: JD for international

Postby sanzgo » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:06 pm

ghytu48 wrote:
sanzgo wrote:
ghytu48 wrote:Hi guys,

My case: international, GPA 3.9/4, LSAT (expected) 175+, 6 years of experience in accounting, GMAT 96%, need financial aid either in loans or scholarships.
Have I any chance to study law in the US/Canada/Australia with no money? Should I continue to study LSAT? What are my chances? Any advice?


lol dis guy...

if the gpa is a US undergrad gpa, and you get 175+, then you have a decent chance for a big scholly

if it's an international undergrad gpa, not that great.

It is an international GPA. Do I still have a chance?


if it's an international GPA, doesn't really matter that it's 3.9. you'll just get a superior gpa rating which is useless for law schools since they can't use that in the US news rankings. so basically, you better hope to get 175+ if you're aiming for HYS or T-14 with substantial scholarship.

if you get 175+, you'll get into a T-14 but with a 100% scholarship? that's ruby territory and with your international gpa, prob not. and bro, you're putting the cart wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy before the horse here. you can't just assume you'll get 175+ LMAO.

if you need loans, you'll have to aim for HY since only those two provide institutional loans for internationals (unless you have a way of securing loans from your home country).

AJordan
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Re: JD for international

Postby AJordan » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:11 pm

Related question that maybe some folks can answer: With the increased scholarship pools at schools are they relying more on international students to pay close(r) to full price? Has anybody done a study on this?

BrainsyK
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Re: JD for international

Postby BrainsyK » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:21 pm

ghytu48 wrote:It is an international GPA. Do I still have a chance?


International GPAs are evaluated into 4 categories. You will likely be superior, which is the highest category--except it doesn't count for ranking purposes so schools have little reason to give it any weight. You have a GMAT, which is irrelevant for JD admission. You don't have a real 175 or even stated reasons for why you would get any extraordinary score. Basically, you have nothing. You chance at any school right now is 0.

As for scholarships, full rides are extra hard because full rides are to attract candidates who pull up both the school's medians and your international GPA can't do that.

As for loans, you cannot take US federal loans period and cannot take out private loans without a creditworthy US cosigner.

Even if you secure funding for school, you'd still have to pony up $60k+ USD for living costs. Depending on your home country, that may not even be feasible to borrow.

Let's say you pull out all that money and graduate, US employers will be wary of hiring you regardless of law school performance because you're on an H-1B visa, which means you'd have a 50/50 chance of even being able to stay in the country.

If you go to Canada, there aren't even full rides so you'd need even more funding. Australia would have comparable costs. Some of their schools like Bond don't even require the LSAT.

I don't know if you should continue with the LSAT, but if you do, just know that there's a lot of obstacles ahead.

Where is your home country?

ghytu48
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Re: JD for international

Postby ghytu48 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:25 am

So I should hope only for full scholarship or YH where I could take a loan without cosigner?
What are my chances assuming 175+ LSAT?
Could I receive full scholarship in top 50 schools or even below?
Is there possibility after getting, lets say, 178 to hope to study without money?
Is there some kind of "graduate assistantships" or anything that could help?

I am from ugly post-soviet country and I need to evacuate somehow.

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RCSOB657
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Re: JD for international

Postby RCSOB657 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:02 am

ghytu48 wrote:So I should hope only for full scholarship or YH where I could take a loan without cosigner?
What are my chances assuming 175+ LSAT?
Could I receive full scholarship in top 50 schools or even below?
Is there possibility after getting, lets say, 178 to hope to study without money?
Is there some kind of "graduate assistantships" or anything that could help?

I am from ugly post-soviet country and I need to evacuate somehow.


Have you considered getting a law degree in your own country, getting an LLM here, and moving to a state that allows LLms to sit for their bar?


(out of curiosity, which country?)

BrainsyK
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Re: JD for international

Postby BrainsyK » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:22 am

ghytu48 wrote:So I should hope only for full scholarship or YH where I could take a loan without cosigner?
What are my chances assuming 175+ LSAT?
Could I receive full scholarship in top 50 schools or even below?
Is there possibility after getting, lets say, 178 to hope to study without money?
Is there some kind of "graduate assistantships" or anything that could help?

I am from ugly post-soviet country and I need to evacuate somehow.


At 175+, you have a decent shot at every school, but YSH is not your best option because they only give need-based aid up to 2/3s of tuition. Since you have a work history, you probably won't receive anything to even that amount.

I think Harvard has a fund dedicated to just loaning to internationals, but I don't know what the maximum amount is. I can't imagine that it would be anything close to the 300k needed to attend for 3 years.

Lower than, certain schools have full ride + living stipend, the best of which I think is WUSTL. That would reduce your total costs to maybe $20k USD, which is probably doable. You probably wouldn't need a 175+ for that though.

ghytu48
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Re: JD for international

Postby ghytu48 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:31 am

BrainsyK wrote:
ghytu48 wrote:So I should hope only for full scholarship or YH where I could take a loan without cosigner?
What are my chances assuming 175+ LSAT?
Could I receive full scholarship in top 50 schools or even below?
Is there possibility after getting, lets say, 178 to hope to study without money?
Is there some kind of "graduate assistantships" or anything that could help?

I am from ugly post-soviet country and I need to evacuate somehow.


At 175+, you have a decent shot at every school, but YSH is not your best option because they only give need-based aid up to 2/3s of tuition. Since you have a work history, you probably won't receive anything to even that amount.

I think Harvard has a fund dedicated to just loaning to internationals, but I don't know what the maximum amount is. I can't imagine that it would be anything close to the 300k needed to attend for 3 years.

Lower than, certain schools have full ride + living stipend, the best of which I think is WUSTL. That would reduce your total costs to maybe $20k USD, which is probably doable. You probably wouldn't need a 175+ for that though.

So do you think it is ok to take LSAT aiming at 175+ with relocation as a goal?

BrainsyK
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Re: JD for international

Postby BrainsyK » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:08 am

ghytu48 wrote:So do you think it is ok to take LSAT aiming at 175+ with relocation as a goal?


That's too tough of a question to answer without knowing personal circumstances. If OP lives in poverty in Tajikistan, then even just one year in the US for the chance at a green card marriage would be a good opportunity. Who knows?

ghytu48
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Re: JD for international

Postby ghytu48 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:40 am

BrainsyK wrote:
ghytu48 wrote:So do you think it is ok to take LSAT aiming at 175+ with relocation as a goal?


That's too tough of a question to answer without knowing personal circumstances. If OP lives in poverty in Tajikistan, then even just one year in the US for the chance at a green card marriage would be a good opportunity. Who knows?

But what are the chances to be admitted with stats above to any Law School with full scholarship or Loans without cosigner?
Yes, the student visa to US to any Uni will be great. GMAT is not as important to MBA as LSAT to Law Schools, so I am considering this way.

BrainsyK
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Re: JD for international

Postby BrainsyK » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:53 am

ghytu48 wrote:But what are the chances to be admitted with stats above to any Law School with full scholarship or Loans without cosigner?


I have no idea. Scholarship prediction is harder than admission prediction, harder still with an international GPA.

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RCSOB657
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Re: JD for international

Postby RCSOB657 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:57 am

ghytu48 wrote:
BrainsyK wrote:
ghytu48 wrote:So do you think it is ok to take LSAT aiming at 175+ with relocation as a goal?


That's too tough of a question to answer without knowing personal circumstances. If OP lives in poverty in Tajikistan, then even just one year in the US for the chance at a green card marriage would be a good opportunity. Who knows?

But what are the chances to be admitted with stats above to any Law School with full scholarship or Loans without cosigner?
Yes, the student visa to US to any Uni will be great. GMAT is not as important to MBA as LSAT to Law Schools, so I am considering this way.


I would suggest being truthful to the Consular Officer that interviews you, but "I want to leave my country permanently," is not something I would say when you apply for a Student (F1) Visa.

AJordan
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Re: JD for international

Postby AJordan » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:09 am

Useful Advice: If you want to mine research go to lawschoolnumbers.com and search individual profiles for international students. Here is the link to one such student who got in a bunch of good places but didn't list scholarship information. Maybe shoot a pm. I think this individual is on TLS as well: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/galeatus

The rest is me talking out my ass.

Law schools want students who are going to 1) raise their medians/75%s (you don't) and 2) pass the bar and be happy with their employment outcomes. This is also strike against you as they aren't entirely sure you're going to be able to stay in the country, let alone pass the bar. They also have to dump scholarships on people they are more sure are going to do those things.

You're also, unfortunately, likely competing with a bunch of applicants with similar numbers who are willing to pay full cost. If a school accepts, let's say, 20% applicants internationally (I have no idea what the number is). T-13 total class size is, what, 4000? So, of 800 international applicants (and this looks high) you're competing against a certain number with better numbers/applications and a certain number who are willing to pay full costs, some are probably in both boats. I have trouble believing that in this financial environment law schools are going to offer money to these applicants before they just accept them and see if they're willing to pay full price. The money offsets the downside of the student likely not being able to stay in the country and work and/or raise numbers for the school.

That's not even considering just how difficult a 170+ is to get. The LSAT is a significant investment and only you can decide if it's right or not for you. I would recommend buying the powerscore books and one of the prep test books and seeing if you're hitting high 160s before you even decide to make the full leap here. This would keep your initial investment low.

Bottom line, and this is with no inside knowledge of you or the system whatsoever, your chances are slim to none of receiving a full ride scholarship.

ghytu48
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Re: JD for international

Postby ghytu48 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:01 am

AJordan wrote:Useful Advice: If you want to mine research go to lawschoolnumbers.com and search individual profiles for international students. Here is the link to one such student who got in a bunch of good places but didn't list scholarship information. Maybe shoot a pm. I think this individual is on TLS as well: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/galeatus

The rest is me talking out my ass.

Law schools want students who are going to 1) raise their medians/75%s (you don't) and 2) pass the bar and be happy with their employment outcomes. This is also strike against you as they aren't entirely sure you're going to be able to stay in the country, let alone pass the bar. They also have to dump scholarships on people they are more sure are going to do those things.

You're also, unfortunately, likely competing with a bunch of applicants with similar numbers who are willing to pay full cost. If a school accepts, let's say, 20% applicants internationally (I have no idea what the number is). T-13 total class size is, what, 4000? So, of 800 international applicants (and this looks high) you're competing against a certain number with better numbers/applications and a certain number who are willing to pay full costs, some are probably in both boats. I have trouble believing that in this financial environment law schools are going to offer money to these applicants before they just accept them and see if they're willing to pay full price. The money offsets the downside of the student likely not being able to stay in the country and work and/or raise numbers for the school.

That's not even considering just how difficult a 170+ is to get. The LSAT is a significant investment and only you can decide if it's right or not for you. I would recommend buying the powerscore books and one of the prep test books and seeing if you're hitting high 160s before you even decide to make the full leap here. This would keep your initial investment low.

Bottom line, and this is with no inside knowledge of you or the system whatsoever, your chances are slim to none of receiving a full ride scholarship.


But on the other hand
Nontative, international (diversity), LSAT 175 (178-180), GPA 3.9/4 (yes, not from US). Is it not the kind of students top Schools want? No sholarship, but maybe admission to H/Y and then institution loans without cosigner?

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RCSOB657
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Re: JD for international

Postby RCSOB657 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:03 am

Your speculation is pointless without an LSAT score. Do that first, then come back here.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: JD for international

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:06 am

Get a 175-180 and then consider applying. Schools want students that improve their GPA/LSAT statistics. You will only be able to do one of those things, so you need a high LSAT, which you currently don't have. If you get a 175-180 I'm sure you will find a school that needs a high LSAT that will give you money, we just can't really say which ones because having only one high score (if you get it) leads to unpredictable results.

Keep in mind that scholarships generally cover tuition but not living costs, so you will need to be able to come up with money to cover your living costs as well. (Apologies if you already covered this and I missed it.)

ghytu48
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Re: JD for international

Postby ghytu48 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:57 am

RCSOB657 wrote:Your speculation is pointless without an LSAT score. Do that first, then come back here.

Before invest long hours and $ (in my country average salary $200/month) I want to discuss a little.

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RCSOB657
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Re: JD for international

Postby RCSOB657 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:00 am

ghytu48 wrote:
RCSOB657 wrote:Your speculation is pointless without an LSAT score. Do that first, then come back here.

Before invest long hours and $ (in my country average salary $200/month) I want to discuss a little.


My friend, if you score high enough it is possible you can get into a school that will give you a great scholarship. It might not be a Tier 1 school. No one can really help more without the score. Tsarmatebebi!

ghytu48
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Re: JD for international

Postby ghytu48 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:05 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Get a 175-180 and then consider applying. Schools want students that improve their GPA/LSAT statistics. You will only be able to do one of those things, so you need a high LSAT, which you currently don't have. If you get a 175-180 I'm sure you will find a school that needs a high LSAT that will give you money, we just can't really say which ones because having only one high score (if you get it) leads to unpredictable results.

Keep in mind that scholarships generally cover tuition but not living costs, so you will need to be able to come up with money to cover your living costs as well. (Apologies if you already covered this and I missed it.)


Also could comeone say what does it mean and who in general are recepients?
http://www.abarequireddisclosures.org

School Name Reporting Year %Full-Time More than full tuition
FLORIDA INTERNATIONAL UNIVERSITY 2016 9.9
CALIFORNIA-DAVIS, UNIVERSITY OF 2016 9.1
WISCONSIN, UNIVERSITY OF 2016 9.1

cavalier1138
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Re: JD for international

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:18 am

ghytu48 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Get a 175-180 and then consider applying. Schools want students that improve their GPA/LSAT statistics. You will only be able to do one of those things, so you need a high LSAT, which you currently don't have. If you get a 175-180 I'm sure you will find a school that needs a high LSAT that will give you money, we just can't really say which ones because having only one high score (if you get it) leads to unpredictable results.

Keep in mind that scholarships generally cover tuition but not living costs, so you will need to be able to come up with money to cover your living costs as well. (Apologies if you already covered this and I missed it.)


Also could comeone say what does it mean and who in general are recepients?
http://www.abarequireddisclosures.org

School Name Reporting Year %Full-Time More than full tuition
FLORIDA INTERNATIONAL UNIVERSITY 2016 9.9
CALIFORNIA-DAVIS, UNIVERSITY OF 2016 9.1
WISCONSIN, UNIVERSITY OF 2016 9.1


It means that a small handful of schools do offer scholarships for full tuition with a small stipend. But the three schools you listed are extremely different schools, and none of them would be a good choice for someone trying to get sponsorship for their H1B visa.

This is all speculative, as you've been told. Come back when you have a real LSAT score.




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