Final Law School Decision

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anon9
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Final Law School Decision

Postby anon9 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:10 pm

So, to all of you who gave me advice in my last post, I am greatly appreciative.

Here is where I currently stand, and I am looking for some justified opinions on what I should do.

I have three options (all currently requiring equal out-of-pocket cost)

1. Seton Hall (57)

2. Temple (53)

3. Villanova (77)

For your reference, I would like to work in either Jersey or Philadelphia. I am leaning a bit more towards going to school in Philly because it trumps the Newark/North Jersey area that Seton rests in. However, I am a New Jersey native, so working in New Jersey would be totally acceptable. I am undecided as to which area of law I want to go into.

Due to my sports background, I would like to explore sports law, transactional law, and possibly one day go into sports agency. Due to my unique medical past and sisters both in the healthcare field (one a Doc of PT and the other pursuing her nursing degree), I would be open to exploring the health law field. Also, my family has owned a small real estate business since I could remember, so real estate law would also be a field of potential interest. However, the bottom line is, I HAVE LITTLE IDEA of what area I want to practice in.

Any advice as per my decision would be greatly appreciated.

I also am open to the potential to transfer to a T-14 school after 1L success. WHO KNOWS!

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Gitaroo_Dude
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Re: Final Law School Decision

Postby Gitaroo_Dude » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:16 pm

How familiar are you with the employment outcomes from those schools? None of them give you a good chance at getting into "entertainment law/sports law".

anon9
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Re: Final Law School Decision

Postby anon9 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:20 pm

Gitaroo_Dude wrote:How familiar are you with the employment outcomes from those schools? None of them give you a good chance at getting into "entertainment law/sports law".


Villanova has a very well respected sports law program. One of the only ones in the country; I believe there are 5 or 6 others. Employment outcomes are as follows:

Seton Hall- 72% @ Median salaries of $85,000 private and $47,000 public.
Nova- 46% @ $70k % $48k
Temple- 54% @ $73k & $52k

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dm1683
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Re: Final Law School Decision

Postby dm1683 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:34 pm

Temple is far and away the best of the three. You won't get entertainment/sports law from any of these schools (is there any entertainment law in Philly/Jersey??), but Temple is very well respected in Philadelphia and most of the top SE PA lawyers are Temple grads because UPenn grads go up the coast to NYC or down to DC.

Seton Hall isn't bad if your goal is "legal work in NJ" but you seem to have higher aspirations and temple is the only school which gives you a non-negligible shot at fulfilling them.

Best of luck.

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Slippin' Jimmy
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Re: Final Law School Decision

Postby Slippin' Jimmy » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:19 pm

You've been told before to retake but something tells me you won't listen. Make sure you go to a school you are comfortable graduating from at median and don't count on placing at the top of your class and/or transferring. You'd have to have out of this world scores to transfer into the T13, and even if you can get into some place like GULC such a place probably wouldn't be worth sticker anyways.

cavalier1138
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Re: Final Law School Decision

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:30 pm

You got answers in your prior thread. If you're looking for validation, try friends/family who don't know anything about law schools or legal hiring.

anon9
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Re: Final Law School Decision

Postby anon9 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:32 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:You got answers in your prior thread. If you're looking for validation, try friends/family who don't know anything about law schools or legal hiring.

With all due respect, I am not looking for "validation." I am asking for advice regarding the decision at hand between the three schools listed above. I am very appreciative of your advice regarding my situation in my last thread, as I have previously stated.

cavalier1138
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Re: Final Law School Decision

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:35 pm

anon9 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:You got answers in your prior thread. If you're looking for validation, try friends/family who don't know anything about law schools or legal hiring.

With all due respect, I am not looking for "validation." I am asking for advice regarding the decision at hand between the three schools listed above. I am very appreciative of your advice regarding my situation in my last thread, as I have previously stated.


If you're looking for someone to tell you that any of these schools is a good choice, then you're looking for validation of the poor decision you've already made. Stop blowing smoke, and get realistic about your career options after school.

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Slippin' Jimmy
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Re: Final Law School Decision

Postby Slippin' Jimmy » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:23 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
anon9 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:You got answers in your prior thread. If you're looking for validation, try friends/family who don't know anything about law schools or legal hiring.

With all due respect, I am not looking for "validation." I am asking for advice regarding the decision at hand between the three schools listed above. I am very appreciative of your advice regarding my situation in my last thread, as I have previously stated.


If you're looking for someone to tell you that any of these schools is a good choice, then you're looking for validation of the poor decision you've already made. Stop blowing smoke, and get realistic about your career options after school.

^This

OP, just take a year and retake after seriously studying the LSAT. It is a very learn able test and you could probably go to a school where you can realistically achieve your goals, and probably for less $$$ then you would have to shell out for these not so good schools. The 3 schools you listed are only ever a good idea if you A. Have a full ride and B. Have goals of practicing small law locally. You don't have either of those.

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Ferrisjso
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Re: Final Law School Decision

Postby Ferrisjso » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:33 pm

anon9 wrote:
Gitaroo_Dude wrote:How familiar are you with the employment outcomes from those schools? None of them give you a good chance at getting into "entertainment law/sports law".


Villanova has a very well respected sports law program. One of the only ones in the country; I believe there are 5 or 6 others. Employment outcomes are as follows:

Seton Hall- 72% @ Median salaries of $85,000 private and $47,000 public.
Nova- 46% @ $70k % $48k
Temple- 54% @ $73k & $52k


If you're happy practicing in any of the places they place and they are truly equal in price, go to the one that's the best fit for you. DO NOT make your decision based on one being ranked slightly higher than the other in USNWR (TT rankings fluctuate heavily and the highest ranked school of the three this year could be the lowest next year). It's also consensus that specialty rankings are a joke and are utterly meaningless(at least in terms of employment). I get the frustration when people refuse to answer your question but if the debt will really be the same at all three schools, and you're open to all their feeder regions(if you have conditional scholly do not go) go to the school where you'll be in the best position to succeed/like the best.

Also where did you get those employment numbers because school employment numbers are pretty unreliable. If those are school numbers look up their ABA employment reports.

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existentialcrisis
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Re: Final Law School Decision

Postby existentialcrisis » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:14 am

None of those schools are good for any of your goals. No school in the country is good for becoming a sports agent.

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UVA2B
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Re: Final Law School Decision

Postby UVA2B » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:42 am

1. COA are never truly equal, and in this tier of law school, if it's one dollar cheaper, you should take that option, but that's not the only thing to consider here.

2. What level of athlete were you prior to law school? Do you have a bunch of friends who are now/will soon be professionals who would hire and/or refer business to you as an upstart sports agent? Do you have any reason to believe one of the big shop sports agencies would want to hire you (not theoretically, I mean have you reached out to known recruiting departments at the big shops to inquire about getting an entry level job there? That's the more typical way of breaking into sports agency, not going to law school. There are very few Donald Yee's of that world, and even he went to a T13 in order to break into that industry).

3. You've admitted you don't have a clear idea of what you want to do with a law degree. It's not that you need to have a singular picture of what you imagine your career looking like, but you should at least have some idea of a rough game plan for the career. If sports agent is the endgame, why have you not looked closer at the typical career path for that type of job? What led you to believe law school was the best way to break into that industry? And further, are you more approaching this like you want a lucrative career that you unfortunately misunderstand to be likely out of these types of law schools? Law school is not a gateway to upper middle class life like it maybe used to be back in the good old boomer days. There are too many law school graduates fighting for the available entry level lawyer jobs in pretty much every market, especially as you work your way down the general prestige rankings that unfortunately color legal hiring. That's why http://www.lstreports.com should be your best friend in objectively assessing a school's ability to place you in the type of job you think you want. You have to actively try to eliminate inherent confirmation bias that you (and most) law students have that they'll be in the portion of the class that has good outcomes from a school without appreciating the nature of a forced curve and being surrounded by students of generally similar intelligence and drive. Given the available data on correlation between GPA/LSAT and law school grades, your best bet is to assume you'll be within one standard deviation of the median GPA because the great majority of law students are in that band. And the majority of those people at schools like Seton Hall and Temple are not getting that more desirable employment outcome you seem to think you'll get. And transferring up won't work if you happen to be in that median GPA cluster. Are you starting to at least conceptually understand why you're making a decidedly risky gamble for a pretty ill-defined plan?

If you're all about betting on yourself and are willing to put $200k on the table for a ~60-70% of being employed as an attorney full time period, much less as a highly paid one, then go ahead. But would you do the same bet if it was Vegas and you had to get the $200k through a non-dischargeable debt that will hang over your head if you're in the 80-90% of the class that doesn't gain entry into the higher paid echelons of the legal profession? Because in very real terms, this is the situation you're facing. Be sure you're ready to make that gamble, because that's the reality whether you want to address it or not.

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nealric
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Re: Final Law School Decision

Postby nealric » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:52 am

Strange game... the only way to win is not to play.

But seriously, nobody has a gun to your head forcing you to attend one of these schools. The world will not end if you take a breather, retake the LSAT, and seek better options.

Are the numbers in parentheses by the names of the schools their current U.S. News Rankings? If so, banish all thoughts of U.S. News. That publication is generally correct in sorting schools into very broad groupings (elite, reasonably respected, horrible), but that's about it. The difference between 50 and 60, or even 30 and 90 is essentially meaningless. Rankings are also very volatile from year to year in that range.

rwhyAn
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Re: Final Law School Decision

Postby rwhyAn » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:15 pm

anon9 wrote:
Gitaroo_Dude wrote:How familiar are you with the employment outcomes from those schools? None of them give you a good chance at getting into "entertainment law/sports law".


Villanova has a very well respected sports law program. One of the only ones in the country; I believe there are 5 or 6 others. Employment outcomes are as follows:

Seton Hall- 72% @ Median salaries of $85,000 private and $47,000 public.
Nova- 46% @ $70k % $48k
Temple- 54% @ $73k & $52k


These are just the REPORTED median salaries. Read these stats with a discerning eye. These reported salaries are inflated because they don't take into account the underemployed/unemployed graduates that fail to report their salaries.

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Mullens
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Re: Final Law School Decision

Postby Mullens » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:20 pm

You're making a life-altering mistake going to any of these schools.




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