Law School Decision (NEED HELP!)

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anon9
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Law School Decision (NEED HELP!)

Postby anon9 » Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:18 pm

Hello everyone,

So I took the LSAT in December and got a 156 with a 3.71 GPA from Gettysburg College. I had to test so late because I played football and had games on every test date until then:/ Anyway, I have to make a decision soon, and I am asking for some help.
My current situation is as follows:

Accepted at Seton Hall, $20k scholarship (I appealed for more, will hear back on Friday regarding the outcome). I made my primary $500 deposit in May and just made the second deposit of $1,000.

Waitlisted at Boston University, Temple, Villanova, Indiana, & Georgia.

I am only really considering BU, Temple, Nova, and of course Seton Hall due to location.

However, I am kind of struggling with funding, and these deposits at Seton Hall are draining my bank accounts. Half of this last deposit of $1,000 can be refunded if requested by June 11th. Accordingly, I put some pressure on my waitlisted schools in an email stating that I needed an answer by this date (many admissions counselors instructed that this was perfectly okay).

However, am I being shortsighted in my financial worries?
Should I stay on these waitlists and keep paying my safety at Seton Hall? (It sucks because I want to start setting up my loans and looking for/finalizing an apartment)

I am just looking for advice in general, anything helps. Just feeling uneasy regarding my situation)

Thank you,
9

cavalier1138
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Re: Law School Decision (NEED HELP!)

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:41 pm

What are your career goals, and where do you want to work?

dredd16
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Re: Law School Decision (NEED HELP!)

Postby dredd16 » Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:04 pm

For the love of God just retake the LSAT. You're wasting your GPA on shit schools. I guess you also wasted $1500 too but rather that then wasting $200k.

Jumping to 165 is very doable.

anon9
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Re: Law School Decision (NEED HELP!)

Postby anon9 » Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:48 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:What are your career goals, and where do you want to work?

I want to go into corporate, sports, health or insurance law. All have their reasons. I'd like to do into biglaw in my younger years as a lawyer and later on settle down and do in-house work or start my own firm. I love the philly legal market, but Seton Hall may put me in reach of the healthier NYC biglaw market.

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Re: Law School Decision (NEED HELP!)

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:54 pm

anon9 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:What are your career goals, and where do you want to work?

I want to go into corporate, sports, health or insurance law. All have their reasons. I'd like to do into biglaw in my younger years as a lawyer and later on settle down and do in-house work or start my own firm. I love the philly legal market, but Seton Hall may put me in reach of the healthier NYC biglaw market.


Seton Hall will not put you in a position to go to NYC, let alone biglaw. If that's your goal, you need to retake the LSAT and reapply next cycle, because you have no reasonable options from this group (and none of these schools make sense for your stated career/geographic goals).

mcmand
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Re: Law School Decision (NEED HELP!)

Postby mcmand » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:21 pm

It seems like you can do better, if your time for LSAT prep was truly limited as you describe. Go out into the workforce, take time to get the LSAT right. You deserve better options.

Are you really, totally committed to going this year? Law school won't go anywhere if you don't attend this fall. And no one will judge you for waiting and withdrawing your apps and reapplying later.

anon9
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Re: Law School Decision (NEED HELP!)

Postby anon9 » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:27 pm

mcmand wrote:It seems like you can do better, if your time for LSAT prep was truly limited as you describe. Go out into the workforce, take time to get the LSAT right. You deserve better options.

Are you really, totally committed to going this year? Law school won't go anywhere if you don't attend this fall. And no one will judge you for waiting and withdrawing your apps and reapplying later.


I am committed to going this year. I can't stand the idea of delaying it. This may be wrong of me, but I feel that I have succeeded in life thus-far, despite not going to the best or ideal schools. I've always believed that rankings are bullshit, and with hard work and dedication, one can succeed wherever they attend school. Am I wrong for thinking this way? Is law school that ranking-focused? Also, what's your opinion of Seton Hall (USWN #57, and ATL #30 I believe).

cavalier1138
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Re: Law School Decision (NEED HELP!)

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:38 pm

anon9 wrote:I am committed to going this year. I can't stand the idea of delaying it. This may be wrong of me, but I feel that I have succeeded in life thus-far, despite not going to the best or ideal schools. I've always believed that rankings are bullshit, and with hard work and dedication, one can succeed wherever they attend school. Am I wrong for thinking this way? Is law school that ranking-focused? Also, what's your opinion of Seton Hall (USWN #57, and ATL #30 I believe).


Yes, you are wrong in thinking this way, and my opinion of Seton Hall is that it won't place you in NYC or at your goal jobs.

I appreciate a "fuck the system" attitude as much as the next guy (even though that's a super-weird attitude for a prospective corporate attorney to have), but you are absolutely, 100%, unequivocally wrong in your thought processes. That isn't how law school works, and it certainly isn't how legal hiring works.

You're going to a professional training school. You can't rush this decision.

anon9
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Re: Law School Decision (NEED HELP!)

Postby anon9 » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:41 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
anon9 wrote:I am committed to going this year. I can't stand the idea of delaying it. This may be wrong of me, but I feel that I have succeeded in life thus-far, despite not going to the best or ideal schools. I've always believed that rankings are bullshit, and with hard work and dedication, one can succeed wherever they attend school. Am I wrong for thinking this way? Is law school that ranking-focused? Also, what's your opinion of Seton Hall (USWN #57, and ATL #30 I believe).


Yes, you are wrong in thinking this way, and my opinion of Seton Hall is that it won't place you in NYC or at your goal jobs.

I appreciate a "fuck the system" attitude as much as the next guy (even though that's a super-weird attitude for a prospective corporate attorney to have), but you are absolutely, 100%, unequivocally wrong in your thought processes. That isn't how law school works, and it certainly isn't how legal hiring works.

You're going to a professional training school. You can't rush this decision.

I appreciate your input boss. Thank you.

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Ferrisjso
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Re: Law School Decision (NEED HELP!)

Postby Ferrisjso » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:47 pm

dredd16 wrote:For the love of God just retake the LSAT. You're wasting your GPA on shit schools. I guess you also wasted $1500 too but rather that then wasting $200k.

Jumping to 165 is very doable.


Ugh no, no it isn't. Only 8% of test takers get that it's a unicorn score even though on here it's far more common. Retaking could make sense if you think you have more room to give. I am suprised you did that poorly with a GPA like that. Did you apply late?(from what you've told us I'm guessing you did) Would make more sense to wait two months and reapply for next cycle as early apps are given precedence. I understand the whole "no delaying" school, but w'ere late enough in the cycle where the 12 months certainly is worth the outcome you'll get even without a retake. With a retake and a few points even better.

While I disagree with Cav and the bourgeoisie squad on a lot, they are totally right that Seton Hall probably won't get you into NY. That school is for the NJ market. If you want NYC schools you can apply to are Fordham, Dozo and Brooklyn and if you want PA Temple and Nova make sense.

Wasting deposit money on Seton Hall is a shame but the overall price is more important. If you did apply early(fall 2016) and get a scholly bump, Seton Hall would make sense if you wanted NJ. If not no even then. There's also the fact you don't want NJ.

anon9
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Re: Law School Decision (NEED HELP!)

Postby anon9 » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:52 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:
dredd16 wrote:For the love of God just retake the LSAT. You're wasting your GPA on shit schools. I guess you also wasted $1500 too but rather that then wasting $200k.

Jumping to 165 is very doable.


Ugh no, no it isn't. Only 8% of test takers get that it's a unicorn score even though on here it's far more common. Retaking could make sense if you think you have more room to give. I am suprised you did that poorly with a GPA like that. Did you apply late?(from what you've told us I'm guessing you did) Would make more sense to wait two months and reapply for next cycle as early apps are given precedence. I understand the whole "no delaying" school, but w'ere late enough in the cycle where the 12 months certainly is worth the outcome you'll get even without a retake. With a retake and a few points even better.

While I disagree with Cav and the bourgeoisie squad on a lot, they are totally right that Seton Hall probably won't get you into NY. That school is for the NJ market. If you want NYC schools you can apply to are Fordham, Dozo and Brooklyn and if you want PA Temple and Nova make sense.

Wasting deposit money on Seton Hall is a shame but the overall price is more important. If you did apply early(fall 2016) and get a scholly bump, Seton Hall would make sense if you wanted NJ. If not no even then. There's also the fact you don't want NJ.


I applied late, yes. Football put me in a tough spot, but I am not complaining whatsoever. I love NJ, so I wouldn't mind working here (I am a native). I'm going to see how my Nova and Temple applications do, and if they don't pan out, I am going to bust my ass at Seton Hall. Thank you so much for your input though. Humbling, but necessary. Thank you.

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Mullens
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Re: Law School Decision (NEED HELP!)

Postby Mullens » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:05 pm

anon9 wrote:
mcmand wrote:It seems like you can do better, if your time for LSAT prep was truly limited as you describe. Go out into the workforce, take time to get the LSAT right. You deserve better options.

Are you really, totally committed to going this year? Law school won't go anywhere if you don't attend this fall. And no one will judge you for waiting and withdrawing your apps and reapplying later.


I am committed to going this year. I can't stand the idea of delaying it. This may be wrong of me, but I feel that I have succeeded in life thus-far, despite not going to the best or ideal schools. I've always believed that rankings are bullshit, and with hard work and dedication, one can succeed wherever they attend school. Am I wrong for thinking this way? Is law school that ranking-focused? Also, what's your opinion of Seton Hall (USWN #57, and ATL #30 I believe).


It's not the rankings themselves that matter, it's the ability to get the job you want. Unfortunately, legal hiring at biglaw firms tends to approximately follow the rankings.

You're gambling $200,000 on the 15% chance you achieve your desired career goal. Those aren't good odds. You can work as hard as possible and not achieve your goals.

Retake the LSAT and go somewhere cheaper and with better odds. I did it. It was 100% worth it.

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barkschool
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Re: Law School Decision (NEED HELP!)

Postby barkschool » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:07 pm

dear OP.


Raising your test scores for a year could save you $100k in tuition money at Seton. Which is kind of ironic, because you won't make that in a year after graduating from Seton.

But seriously, think of the schools you could get into with some serious LSAT practice.



edit: i kind of wish i ate a slice of the humble pie before attending school.

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VeiledProtectorate
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Re: Law School Decision (NEED HELP!)

Postby VeiledProtectorate » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:42 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:
dredd16 wrote:For the love of God just retake the LSAT. You're wasting your GPA on shit schools. I guess you also wasted $1500 too but rather that then wasting $200k.

Jumping to 165 is very doable.


Ugh no, no it isn't. Only 8% of test takers get that it's a unicorn score even though on here it's far more common. Retaking could make sense if you think you have more room to give. I am suprised you did that poorly with a GPA like that. Did you apply late?(from what you've told us I'm guessing you did) Would make more sense to wait two months and reapply for next cycle as early apps are given precedence. I understand the whole "no delaying" school, but w'ere late enough in the cycle where the 12 months certainly is worth the outcome you'll get even without a retake. With a retake and a few points even better.

While I disagree with Cav and the bourgeoisie squad on a lot, they are totally right that Seton Hall probably won't get you into NY. That school is for the NJ market. If you want NYC schools you can apply to are Fordham, Dozo and Brooklyn and if you want PA Temple and Nova make sense.

Wasting deposit money on Seton Hall is a shame but the overall price is more important. If you did apply early(fall 2016) and get a scholly bump, Seton Hall would make sense if you wanted NJ. If not no even then. There's also the fact you don't want NJ.

This is poor advice. A low percentage of testers hit 165 because a low percentage of testers put in the requisite preparation. The vast majority of prospective law students are capable of hitting 165. OP should retake. Period. Few schools, if any, are out of reach with their GPA.

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Re: Law School Decision (NEED HELP!)

Postby SmokeytheBear » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:50 pm

barkschool wrote:dear OP.


Raising your test scores for a year could save you $100k in tuition money at Seton. Which is kind of ironic, because you won't make that in a year after graduating from Seton.

But seriously, think of the schools you could get into with some serious LSAT practice.



edit: i kind of wish i ate a slice of the humble pie before attending school.


Yeah dude you gotta take a year on the bench.

Raising your test score could (i) get you money at one of those pretty bad schools you've been admitted to (bad considering your stated goals), and (ii) get you into a t-14 where you could actually have a shot at big law, and with a shot at big law you can make the money and get those jobs that you say that you want that almost none of the schools you've said will put on the table for you.

I do agree that hard work and grit get you far in life. But law schools and big law are based on rankings. You just gotta play the rankings/prestige game; trying to pretend that you can win the game otherwise is a joke (sure, some do, but they are the rarrrrrrrity).

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Ferrisjso
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Re: Law School Decision (NEED HELP!)

Postby Ferrisjso » Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:12 pm

anon9 wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:
dredd16 wrote:For the love of God just retake the LSAT. You're wasting your GPA on shit schools. I guess you also wasted $1500 too but rather that then wasting $200k.

Jumping to 165 is very doable.


Ugh no, no it isn't. Only 8% of test takers get that it's a unicorn score even though on here it's far more common. Retaking could make sense if you think you have more room to give. I am suprised you did that poorly with a GPA like that. Did you apply late?(from what you've told us I'm guessing you did) Would make more sense to wait two months and reapply for next cycle as early apps are given precedence. I understand the whole "no delaying" school, but w'ere late enough in the cycle where the 12 months certainly is worth the outcome you'll get even without a retake. With a retake and a few points even better.

While I disagree with Cav and the bourgeoisie squad on a lot, they are totally right that Seton Hall probably won't get you into NY. That school is for the NJ market. If you want NYC schools you can apply to are Fordham, Dozo and Brooklyn and if you want PA Temple and Nova make sense.

Wasting deposit money on Seton Hall is a shame but the overall price is more important. If you did apply early(fall 2016) and get a scholly bump, Seton Hall would make sense if you wanted NJ. If not no even then. There's also the fact you don't want NJ.


I applied late, yes. Football put me in a tough spot, but I am not complaining whatsoever. I love NJ, so I wouldn't mind working here (I am a native). I'm going to see how my Nova and Temple applications do, and if they don't pan out, I am going to bust my ass at Seton Hall. Thank you so much for your input though. Humbling, but necessary. Thank you.


You have the numbers to go to Seton Hall at well over a half ride. The only reason you're not is because you applied late. If you apply the first day applications open you are in with alot more money maybe even twice as much with the same numbers(best case scenario). This isn't a retake scenario either this is a sure thing(although a retake in that time couldn't hurt).If Seton Hall bumps up your offer, maybe going right now doesn't hurt you too much but you can do better than 20k with your current numbers from Seton Hall. You already earned that money the only reason they're not giving it to you is because they already spent it on other qualified applicants.

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Re: Law School Decision (NEED HELP!)

Postby waldorf » Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:22 am

Ferrisjso wrote:
dredd16 wrote:For the love of God just retake the LSAT. You're wasting your GPA on shit schools. I guess you also wasted $1500 too but rather that then wasting $200k.

Jumping to 165 is very doable.


Ugh no, no it isn't. Only 8% of test takers get that it's a unicorn score even though on here it's far more common. Retaking could make sense if you think you have more room to give.


Mods plz. This is flat out dangerous advice.

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Re: Law School Decision (NEED HELP!)

Postby UVA2B » Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:36 am

Ferrisjso wrote:
anon9 wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:
dredd16 wrote:For the love of God just retake the LSAT. You're wasting your GPA on shit schools. I guess you also wasted $1500 too but rather that then wasting $200k.

Jumping to 165 is very doable.


Ugh no, no it isn't. Only 8% of test takers get that it's a unicorn score even though on here it's far more common. Retaking could make sense if you think you have more room to give. I am suprised you did that poorly with a GPA like that. Did you apply late?(from what you've told us I'm guessing you did) Would make more sense to wait two months and reapply for next cycle as early apps are given precedence. I understand the whole "no delaying" school, but w'ere late enough in the cycle where the 12 months certainly is worth the outcome you'll get even without a retake. With a retake and a few points even better.

While I disagree with Cav and the bourgeoisie squad on a lot, they are totally right that Seton Hall probably won't get you into NY. That school is for the NJ market. If you want NYC schools you can apply to are Fordham, Dozo and Brooklyn and if you want PA Temple and Nova make sense.

Wasting deposit money on Seton Hall is a shame but the overall price is more important. If you did apply early(fall 2016) and get a scholly bump, Seton Hall would make sense if you wanted NJ. If not no even then. There's also the fact you don't want NJ.


I applied late, yes. Football put me in a tough spot, but I am not complaining whatsoever. I love NJ, so I wouldn't mind working here (I am a native). I'm going to see how my Nova and Temple applications do, and if they don't pan out, I am going to bust my ass at Seton Hall. Thank you so much for your input though. Humbling, but necessary. Thank you.


You have the numbers to go to Seton Hall at well over a half ride. The only reason you're not is because you applied late. If you apply the first day applications open you are in with alot more money maybe even twice as much with the same numbers(best case scenario). This isn't a retake scenario either this is a sure thing(although a retake in that time couldn't hurt).If Seton Hall bumps up your offer, maybe going right now doesn't hurt you too much but you can do better than 20k with your current numbers from Seton Hall. You already earned that money the only reason they're not giving it to you is because they already spent it on other qualified applicants.


Your advice is really something special. It hits this unique mixture of reassuring parent who doesn't know any better and dismissive acknowledgement of reality.

OP, you'll have better options if you reapply on its own. But you shouldn't do that. You should make the year gap a singular focus to improve your LSAT in hopes of making a better professional and personal decision. You want to go into some semblance of corporate, sports, or whatever else law (no offense, but these are mostly unrelated things, so you probably just need to refine your goals a bit more before making this decision), and at present your options give you a minuscule chance of ever achieving that goal. Why would you limit yourself to a minuscule chance of achieving a goal if you could just as easily try for a more than likely chance of achieving a goal? That's what you're considering right now. If you go to Seton Hall, you likely won't accomplish your goal. If you can buckle down and have a successful retake of the LSAT, you give yourself a more likely than not shot of at least finding yourself in the type of position you think you want. The only difference is one learnable test. You owe it to yourself to at least try to improve your chances to more likely than not success.

mcmand
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Re: Law School Decision (NEED HELP!)

Postby mcmand » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:56 am

anon9 wrote:
mcmand wrote:It seems like you can do better, if your time for LSAT prep was truly limited as you describe. Go out into the workforce, take time to get the LSAT right. You deserve better options.

Are you really, totally committed to going this year? Law school won't go anywhere if you don't attend this fall. And no one will judge you for waiting and withdrawing your apps and reapplying later.


I am committed to going this year. I can't stand the idea of delaying it. This may be wrong of me, but I feel that I have succeeded in life thus-far, despite not going to the best or ideal schools. I've always believed that rankings are bullshit, and with hard work and dedication, one can succeed wherever they attend school. Am I wrong for thinking this way? Is law school that ranking-focused? Also, what's your opinion of Seton Hall (USWN #57, and ATL #30 I believe).


There are exceptions to every rule, but if you're​playing purely based on probability, yes, legal careers and their success correlate somewhat with prestige. You will make your life more difficult than necessary going to Seton Hall with so little money.

What you should want is either more money or more prestige (or a sweet combo of both if possible). Right now you've got neither, which is why everyone is discouraging you from pulling the trigger.

What also worries me is your desire to go right now, with no thought to the ramifications of doing so. Slow down. We all promise it will be far more worth your time to have time away from school and very worth your time to get a better LSAT score. Even if you don't, as someone said in this thread, applying earlier next year would get you more money with the same application.

There is no reason other than the fire and false urgency of youth to rush into law school. Call it a wash, step back, recalibrate. Find something interesting to do while you're fixing your apps and LSAT for this next year.

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Re: Law School Decision (NEED HELP!)

Postby AJordan » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:57 am

The issue is not "rankings game" vs "hard work and dedication" in some black and white manner. The issue is that, for most of us, we eventually find ourselves somewhere around median. It can be hard to see before you hit it simply because your environmental conditioning has shown you hard work trumps the nebulous other. That's simply not true in Law School. You're not going with the crew of slackers and morons that you went to UG/HS with. That's not to say the slack-jawed don't exist, but they're not all guaranteeing enough people to step on if you just work hard. Most of us will end up at or around median and for that reason it's not great to assume you will not.

Hard work/drive will certainly help you if you're looking to break into a regional law firm in New Jersey out of SH. You'll network your ass off and do things that others don't because you'll need that to get "a" job. Not the job that you think you want, just a lawyer job in general. Let's say you end up somewhere nice making 60k a year with good prospects. You're still looking at trying to pay off $150,000 of debt with that job. If you really want to be at Seton Hall you can use your work ethic and maybe 500 bucks to study the LSAT enough to get yourself to 165 where your application makes you a candidate looking at far more money from them. You may also find that some of those schools that waitlisted you give you more money with better chances at your current goal.

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Re: Law School Decision (NEED HELP!)

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:40 am

bwaldorf wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:
dredd16 wrote:For the love of God just retake the LSAT. You're wasting your GPA on shit schools. I guess you also wasted $1500 too but rather that then wasting $200k.

Jumping to 165 is very doable.


Ugh no, no it isn't. Only 8% of test takers get that it's a unicorn score even though on here it's far more common. Retaking could make sense if you think you have more room to give.


Mods plz. This is flat out dangerous advice.


Actually, since Ferris isn't advocating for a dangerous amount of debt at a stupidly bad school choice, he's actually being less reckless than normal. But yes, as has been established multiple times before, he should go away and stop giving advice on admissions.

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Ferrisjso
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Re: Law School Decision (NEED HELP!)

Postby Ferrisjso » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:27 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
bwaldorf wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:
dredd16 wrote:For the love of God just retake the LSAT. You're wasting your GPA on shit schools. I guess you also wasted $1500 too but rather that then wasting $200k.

Jumping to 165 is very doable.


Ugh no, no it isn't. Only 8% of test takers get that it's a unicorn score even though on here it's far more common. Retaking could make sense if you think you have more room to give.


Mods plz. This is flat out dangerous advice.


Actually, since Ferris isn't advocating for a dangerous amount of debt at a stupidly bad school choice, he's actually being less reckless than normal. But yes, as has been established multiple times before, he should go away and stop giving advice on admissions.


As should you.




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