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dksockies

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Postby dksockies » Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:43 am

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Last edited by dksockies on Wed May 17, 2017 11:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

cavalier1138

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Re: Go Now or Retake and Wait Another Year?

Postby cavalier1138 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:48 am

Your only career objective that falls in the legal category is the vague "advocacy" reference. What legal career do you envision yourself having?

But short answer: Penn State won't get you a job in California, and you shouldn't be going to either of these schools for anything less than a full ride. Retaking is the right answer if you want to go to law school, but I'm not sure that law school is the right choice for your stated interests.

dksockies

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Postby dksockies » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:10 pm

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cavalier1138

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Re: Go Now or Retake and Wait Another Year?

Postby cavalier1138 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:36 pm

dksockies wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:Your only career objective that falls in the legal category is the vague "advocacy" reference. What legal career do you envision yourself having?

But short answer: Penn State won't get you a job in California, and you shouldn't be going to either of these schools for anything less than a full ride. Retaking is the right answer if you want to go to law school, but I'm not sure that law school is the right choice for your stated interests.


Honestly, that's been part of the issue too (not all of my interests fall in the legal category). Ideally, I'd love to teach Race/Ethnic Studies, through the lens of law. Ex: Korematsu & the implications of EO 9066. This would be the d r e a m.

In terms of actual practice - I've done immigration law work and and enjoyed that. Would also like to get into Human Rights Law or Civil Rights Law.


You'd need a PhD for academia, and you'd need a much better name on your JD for it, too.

Human/civil rights law is a vague field. Hastings might get you set up with some local immigration work (assuming you have enough confidence in PSLF to take on that debt), but if your real goals are something more along the lines of high-level NGO, then you absolutely need to retake. But you should only go to law school if you want to be a lawyer. If you really just want to work for non-profits and/or work towards academia, law school isn't the way to go.

grades??

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Re: Go Now or Retake and Wait Another Year?

Postby grades?? » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:48 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
dksockies wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:Your only career objective that falls in the legal category is the vague "advocacy" reference. What legal career do you envision yourself having?

But short answer: Penn State won't get you a job in California, and you shouldn't be going to either of these schools for anything less than a full ride. Retaking is the right answer if you want to go to law school, but I'm not sure that law school is the right choice for your stated interests.


Honestly, that's been part of the issue too (not all of my interests fall in the legal category). Ideally, I'd love to teach Race/Ethnic Studies, through the lens of law. Ex: Korematsu & the implications of EO 9066. This would be the d r e a m.

In terms of actual practice - I've done immigration law work and and enjoyed that. Would also like to get into Human Rights Law or Civil Rights Law.


You'd need a PhD for academia, and you'd need a much better name on your JD for it, too.

Human/civil rights law is a vague field. Hastings might get you set up with some local immigration work (assuming you have enough confidence in PSLF to take on that debt), but if your real goals are something more along the lines of high-level NGO, then you absolutely need to retake. But you should only go to law school if you want to be a lawyer. If you really just want to work for non-profits and/or work towards academia, law school isn't the way to go.


This is the correct answer. Even assuming you have a phd in a relevant field from a top program, academia requires a jd from the t13, but really Yale. There are statistics floating out there that OVER 50% of every tenured law professor either went to Yale or Harvard. Then throw in Columbia, Chicago, and a smattering of Duke/UVA/Michigan/Upenn to make up the rest.

For "human rights or civil rights", good luck trying to get a job in those fields without a t13 degree (and be at the top of your class at the same time).

Given your goals, you need to change your school choices. You do that by retaking until you can get into one of these schools that MIGHT be able to help you get your career goals, but even that is unlikely.

dksockies

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Re: Go Now or Retake and Wait Another Year?

Postby dksockies » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:10 pm

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Last edited by dksockies on Wed May 17, 2017 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

grades??

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Re: Go Now or Retake and Wait Another Year?

Postby grades?? » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:23 pm

dksockies wrote:
grades?? wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
dksockies wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:Your only career objective that falls in the legal category is the vague "advocacy" reference. What legal career do you envision yourself having?

But short answer: Penn State won't get you a job in California, and you shouldn't be going to either of these schools for anything less than a full ride. Retaking is the right answer if you want to go to law school, but I'm not sure that law school is the right choice for your stated interests.


Honestly, that's been part of the issue too (not all of my interests fall in the legal category). Ideally, I'd love to teach Race/Ethnic Studies, through the lens of law. Ex: Korematsu & the implications of EO 9066. This would be the d r e a m.

In terms of actual practice - I've done immigration law work and and enjoyed that. Would also like to get into Human Rights Law or Civil Rights Law.


You'd need a PhD for academia, and you'd need a much better name on your JD for it, too.

Human/civil rights law is a vague field. Hastings might get you set up with some local immigration work (assuming you have enough confidence in PSLF to take on that debt), but if your real goals are something more along the lines of high-level NGO, then you absolutely need to retake. But you should only go to law school if you want to be a lawyer. If you really just want to work for non-profits and/or work towards academia, law school isn't the way to go.


This is the correct answer. Even assuming you have a phd in a relevant field from a top program, academia requires a jd from the t13, but really Yale. There are statistics floating out there that OVER 50% of every tenured law professor either went to Yale or Harvard. Then throw in Columbia, Chicago, and a smattering of Duke/UVA/Michigan/Upenn to make up the rest.

For "human rights or civil rights", good luck trying to get a job in those fields without a t13 degree (and be at the top of your class at the same time).

Given your goals, you need to change your school choices. You do that by retaking until you can get into one of these schools that MIGHT be able to help you get your career goals, but even that is unlikely.



Thank you for the input.

I should specify, I don't want to teach law. As in, teach law students. I'm much more interested in teaching race with a lens towards law. Edit: At an undergraduate institution.

So, it sounds like don't attend law school unless T13, not @ sticker & top of class, and only if I want to actually /practice/.

And if I want to teach /at a law school/ only do it if I'm at Yale.


1- if you want to teach undergrads, you need a PHD still, and not a law degree. So if thats the goal, why law school?

2- if you want to practice in the areas you said in your original post, then yes, you need to be top of your class at t13. If you want to work doing small law immigration work with say undocumented workers in cali, then hastings might be fine for free knowing you will make 40k a year and need to know spanish.

Edit: upshot being- you need to retake.

dksockies

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Re: Go Now or Retake and Wait Another Year?

Postby dksockies » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:35 pm

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Last edited by dksockies on Wed May 17, 2017 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

grades??

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Re: Go Now or Retake and Wait Another Year?

Postby grades?? » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:36 pm

dksockies wrote:
grades?? wrote:
dksockies wrote:
grades?? wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
dksockies wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:Your only career objective that falls in the legal category is the vague "advocacy" reference. What legal career do you envision yourself having?

But short answer: Penn State won't get you a job in California, and you shouldn't be going to either of these schools for anything less than a full ride. Retaking is the right answer if you want to go to law school, but I'm not sure that law school is the right choice for your stated interests.


Honestly, that's been part of the issue too (not all of my interests fall in the legal category). Ideally, I'd love to teach Race/Ethnic Studies, through the lens of law. Ex: Korematsu & the implications of EO 9066. This would be the d r e a m.

In terms of actual practice - I've done immigration law work and and enjoyed that. Would also like to get into Human Rights Law or Civil Rights Law.


You'd need a PhD for academia, and you'd need a much better name on your JD for it, too.

Human/civil rights law is a vague field. Hastings might get you set up with some local immigration work (assuming you have enough confidence in PSLF to take on that debt), but if your real goals are something more along the lines of high-level NGO, then you absolutely need to retake. But you should only go to law school if you want to be a lawyer. If you really just want to work for non-profits and/or work towards academia, law school isn't the way to go.


This is the correct answer. Even assuming you have a phd in a relevant field from a top program, academia requires a jd from the t13, but really Yale. There are statistics floating out there that OVER 50% of every tenured law professor either went to Yale or Harvard. Then throw in Columbia, Chicago, and a smattering of Duke/UVA/Michigan/Upenn to make up the rest.

For "human rights or civil rights", good luck trying to get a job in those fields without a t13 degree (and be at the top of your class at the same time).

Given your goals, you need to change your school choices. You do that by retaking until you can get into one of these schools that MIGHT be able to help you get your career goals, but even that is unlikely.



Thank you for the input.

I should specify, I don't want to teach law. As in, teach law students. I'm much more interested in teaching race with a lens towards law. Edit: At an undergraduate institution.

So, it sounds like don't attend law school unless T13, not @ sticker & top of class, and only if I want to actually /practice/.

And if I want to teach /at a law school/ only do it if I'm at Yale.


1- if you want to teach undergrads, you need a PHD still, and not a law degree. So if thats the goal, why law school?

2- if you want to practice in the areas you said in your original post, then yes, you need to be top of your class at t13. If you want to work doing small law immigration work with say undocumented workers in cali, then hastings might be fine for free knowing you will make 40k a year and need to know spanish.

Edit: upshot being- you need to retake.


1 - A PhD is not required, however a terminal degree is. JD is that and if I take into consideration the focus, I'm sure you can see why I considered it.

2 + Edit: Agree on the retake if I decide to go. Better a T13 or full ride than what I have currently


Link professors who work with undergrads in this field with just JDs. I will be waiting.

dksockies

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Re: Go Now or Retake and Wait Another Year?

Postby dksockies » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:55 pm

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Last edited by dksockies on Wed May 17, 2017 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

grades??

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Re: Go Now or Retake and Wait Another Year?

Postby grades?? » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:59 pm



I'll give you credit for actually answering. The first guy has a JD from Yale. So consider that. The second person I didn't even find the resume, but working as a playwright is different than teaching race theory. And the third guy looked like he was an adjunct, not a tenured professor. So I'll give you credit for 1.5. Except the 1 had a JD from Yale. That should be considered. But I was specifically looking for people in your field you want to go in. I could find 100 adjunct professors teaching undergrads for 1k a semester who just have professional degrees.

If you want to adjunct, then sure a JD from a top 13 school may be sufficient. But I have been assuming tenure.

Rigo

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Re: Go Now or Retake and Wait Another Year?

Postby Rigo » Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:03 pm

I highly recommend not going this fall, whether that means retaking and reapplying or not going to law school at all and pursuing your interests down a better suited avenue.

cavalier1138

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Re: Go Now or Retake and Wait Another Year?

Postby cavalier1138 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:17 pm



In addition to what's already been said about these ones, it's important to note that a professional who is hired to come in and teach a course while they continue their main practice is not the same thing as a full professor. So, for example, when it says that Tom Fleming also has a criminal defense practice, it means that he's primarily a lawyer who occasionally comes in to teach a class. That's not a normal thing to find in academia, and it's hardly a career track that you can plan for.

dksockies

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Re: Go Now or Retake and Wait Another Year?

Postby dksockies » Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:00 pm

Thanks for everyone's thoughts. Looks like I have a lot to consider :)



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