Shall I attend GGU Law 2017 Fall Class? Forum

[Thomas Hagan, ESQ.]

Literally do anything else rather than attend GGU

[lauraleeli]

Literally do anything else rather than attend GGU

But I don't like my current job, earning minimum wages and everything is so messed up. I would like the US so much better.

[guynourmin]

Literally do anything else rather than attend GGU

anything else. its really good you are having these hesitations now!

[lauraleeli]

Literally do anything else rather than attend GGU

anything else. its really good you are having these hesitations now!

Well, GGU gave me kinda financial relief.

[lawadmin]

Hello everyone,

I am quite uneasy about whether to attend Golden Gate U Law, 2017 fall class, full time.
I am a Chinese female, and living in China, have never been to the US.
My GPA is Above Average, which is around 3.0 from a prestige Shanghai U.
My LSAT, 2 shots, both 152.
I plan to go to the US and settle down in a city of the US, make a career, get married and build a family, which is my ultimate goal, due to I lived in Shanghai for 6 years, I particularly like NYC. And I am 30 years old now, I have to plan for my life.
I am hesitating whether to attend because I did a lot of research recently, most of PEOPLE said GGU is not worthy attending.
One more important thing is that GGU awarded me with $40000 renewable scholarship, and finance is the major element that ties me, coz I don't have anyone to help me, my dad passed away, I am single and poor relatives etc. If I succeed in applying the $10000 minority scholarship in San Francisco Bar Association, my tuition will be covered fully. Another law school Touro Law in NY offered me $32000, but I think I am not going to take it, I have to pay $14000 myself to the tuition.
My consideration is if I wait for one more year to retake LSAT, I may or may not rise LSAT, but my age will rise one year definitely. And as I mentioned above, I don't have anyone to help me, as an international student like me who is not eligible for taking loans from any American organizations.
Also, if I attend GGU, even hypothetically I become the first of the class, I can't get starting salaries as high as the T14 law school students. I might be a paralegal year after year, which I hate so much. People say you may transfer after 1L, but I don't have the conditions to afford this.
Also, as a lawyer, which school you attend will come along with you all your life, it is written on your profile, even you become an excellent lawyer later, I still feel it's kind of tie down by the not prestigious name of a school, this situation is especially dire or obvious in China.

So, please tell me what shall I do? Attend or not? Retake LSAT or not? Shall I apply any other schools?

Thank you in advance.

https://www.lstreports.com/schools/goldengate/

[guynourmin]

Literally do anything else rather than attend GGU

anything else. its really good you are having these hesitations now!

Well, GGU gave me kinda financial relief.

Did you know over half of their students lose at least part of their scholarships after the first year?

[lauraleeli]

Literally do anything else rather than attend GGU

anything else. its really good you are having these hesitations now!

Well, GGU gave me kinda financial relief.

Did you know over half of their students lose at least part of their scholarships after the first year?

I know that. So I will work on it very hard. I came from a very competitive school in Shanghai. I know the dire situation.

[01panm]

On top of the fact that GGU has bad job prospects and that many people lose their scholarship (and this is absolutely intentional on behalf of the school),

1) That 40k scholarship and 10k minority scholarship, even if you keep both, are still nowhere near close to covering the total cost. GGU lists total cost of attendance at 280k, meaning you're just above half covered.

2) Because you are an international student, you will likely need an H1-B after graduation. There is a very good chance the minimum salary for H1-B will be raised to 130k per year. The only jobs that pay that much are big firm jobs, and GGU sends nobody (and by nobody I mean less than 1%) to those jobs.

I think GGU is a bad idea for the average person, but it's even worse in your case. Anything else - retake, reapply, don't go - is a better option.

[lauraleeli]

On top of the fact that GGU has bad job prospects and that many people lose their scholarship (and this is absolutely intentional on behalf of the school),

1) That 40k scholarship and 10k minority scholarship, even if you keep both, are still nowhere near close to covering the total cost. GGU lists total cost of attendance at 280k, meaning you're just above half covered.

2) Because you are an international student, you will likely need an H1-B after graduation. There is a very good chance the minimum salary for H1-B will be raised to 130k per year. The only jobs that pay that much are big firm jobs, and GGU sends nobody (and by nobody I mean less than 1%) to those jobs.

I think GGU is a bad idea for the average person, but it's even worse in your case. Anything else - retake, reapply, don't go - is a better option.

Thank you very much for your analysis, it has been very helpful to me. I am actually thinking retake now already. I am just saying that 40K+10k covers my tuition, other costs I may prepare myself before I go to USA. Especially GGU has Honors Lawyering Program (“HLP”) and First Summer Trial and Evidence Program (“1st STEP”), and I have been enrolled by both programs, so I think I can start to work since 2L, therefore I might finance my life expenses. Also I can do some part time work such as translation to tip up myself a little bit.

[cavalier1138]

On top of the fact that GGU has bad job prospects and that many people lose their scholarship (and this is absolutely intentional on behalf of the school),

1) That 40k scholarship and 10k minority scholarship, even if you keep both, are still nowhere near close to covering the total cost. GGU lists total cost of attendance at 280k, meaning you're just above half covered.

2) Because you are an international student, you will likely need an H1-B after graduation. There is a very good chance the minimum salary for H1-B will be raised to 130k per year. The only jobs that pay that much are big firm jobs, and GGU sends nobody (and by nobody I mean less than 1%) to those jobs.

I think GGU is a bad idea for the average person, but it's even worse in your case. Anything else - retake, reapply, don't go - is a better option.

Thank you very much for your analysis, it has been very helpful to me. I am actually thinking retake now already. I am just saying that 40K+10k covers my tuition, other costs I may prepare myself before I go to USA. Especially GGU has Honors Lawyering Program (“HLP”) and First Summer Trial and Evidence Program (“1st STEP”), and I have been enrolled by both programs, so I think I can start to work since 2L, therefore I might finance my life expenses. Also I can do some part time work such as translation to tip up myself a little bit.

Right, but you're ignoring the last part of what was said. You need a job after school to sponsor your H1-B visa. GGU students don't get those jobs.

[Thomas Hagan, ESQ.]

Literally do anything else rather than attend GGU

anything else. its really good you are having these hesitations now!

Well, GGU gave me kinda financial relief.

Did you know over half of their students lose at least part of their scholarships after the first year?

I know that. So I will work on it very hard. I came from a very competitive school in Shanghai. I know the dire situation.

Everyone is going to work very hard, and not everyone can keep their scholarships because law schools grade on a curve. Golden Gate is one of the worst schools in the country and you will absolutely not find a job that will sponsor your visa even if you graduate top 5% from GGU (you most likely won't graduate top 5%).

Even if you decide to transfer out (which you shouldn't since you most likely wont get any money from your new school and because transferring is very difficult) you still likely won't move into the range of schools needed for you to get a job at a place that will sponsor your visa. That's how bad GGU is. Picture me, a US student, asking you if I should attend the worst school in China? Would you suggest that I go?

Also, Touro law school is not even close to New York City. It's like an hour and a half drive away and you'll never get a job in NYC with a Touro Law degree.

[Thomas Hagan, ESQ.]

Literally do anything else rather than attend GGU

But I don't like my current job, earning minimum wages and everything is so messed up. I would like the US so much better.

That's admirable and fine, but attending GGU will likely not get you a better job in the US. There are a million other things that you can do in the US other than attend a bad law school that gives you almost no chance at getting the job you want.

*Unrelated: glad that TLS isn't blocked by the Great Firewall of China haha

[Blue664]

PS: Can I attend GGU, later drop out, then take LSAT and apply again? In doing this way, I don't have to stick in China, I really hate my situation here.

I'm not sure, but if you drop out, can you even stay in the US or would you have to go back to China? I assume that if you come, it would be on a student visa.

[gwillygecko]

Why do ppl take these posts seriously

[CR7]

Have you considered an MBA?

[AJordan]

OP, I think you're serious for what it's worth, and I understand that your situation likely is different from most going to American law schools. You may have trouble upping your LSAT score because English is not your first language and the LSAT is difficult enough, even for Americans.

Some real talk, though, if you're coming to America to go to GGU and intending to stay you're giving yourself no shot except one of finding/marrying an American citizen within a 3 year time span. Your 1L year will essentially be split between trying to maintain your scholarship and trying to find husband material. GGU will almost certainly not land you a job that will keep you in the states, so that's your option. I get that you likely worked your butt off in Uni in Shanghai. Kudos. This is not going to have adequately prepared you for law school in the states. You're flying blind like the rest of the 1Ls and, let's be real, if you have a professor who notices your ESL writing (it's obvious) it may be a detriment to your grades.

So, if you are cool with busting your butt and finding a husband that's your best shot at meeting your goal. I wish you luck if that's what you ultimately choose. However, don't attend GGU thinking that you have any backup to that plan outside of a miracle.

[lauraleeli]

On top of the fact that GGU has bad job prospects and that many people lose their scholarship (and this is absolutely intentional on behalf of the school),

1) That 40k scholarship and 10k minority scholarship, even if you keep both, are still nowhere near close to covering the total cost. GGU lists total cost of attendance at 280k, meaning you're just above half covered.

2) Because you are an international student, you will likely need an H1-B after graduation. There is a very good chance the minimum salary for H1-B will be raised to 130k per year. The only jobs that pay that much are big firm jobs, and GGU sends nobody (and by nobody I mean less than 1%) to those jobs.

I think GGU is a bad idea for the average person, but it's even worse in your case. Anything else - retake, reapply, don't go - is a better option.

Thank you very much for your analysis, it has been very helpful to me. I am actually thinking retake now already. I am just saying that 40K+10k covers my tuition, other costs I may prepare myself before I go to USA. Especially GGU has Honors Lawyering Program (“HLP”) and First Summer Trial and Evidence Program (“1st STEP”), and I have been enrolled by both programs, so I think I can start to work since 2L, therefore I might finance my life expenses. Also I can do some part time work such as translation to tip up myself a little bit.

Right, but you're ignoring the last part of what was said. You need a job after school to sponsor your H1-B visa. GGU students don't get those jobs.

In responding you, I post the email from one of my former customers who is a very well-known professor of cardio diseases in California U.

Should you wait and retake the LSAT? This is the most important question since the LSAT score is directly related to the schools you can get into and scholarships. The exam is challenging and you did it twice so you have a good idea about it. If you think that if you take a new exam say after 6 months of preparing for it, you can raise your score to 160 or above then I say do that. If you think that it would be difficult to get 160 or above (getting 153, 154 etc. would not help) then I would go to GGU.

I knew someone from India who went to GGU and after he graduated had a great job with a private law firm about 45 minutes drive from San Francisco. My view is the school only weights you down as much as you let it. Only about 40% of students pass the bar from GGU but it seems that those that pass the bar do well as about 60% of students get employment after graduation.

I went to a University in a third world country but was able to do well in America and never felt that my unknown University that I graduated from kept me down. It is all about the person. I really believe that if you are a hard worker and determined you would be successful wherever you go to school. My sister went to a small unranked University to do her engineering degree. She did not have great jobs for 2-3 years but then she got the opportunity at a large company and made the best of that position. The company paid for her to do masters at John's Hopkins University and now she is in charge of a division with people she has to train that comes from top universities.

One thing to note is that both San Francisco and New York are two of the most expensive cities in America. Hence, rent would be expensive. If you decide to go, I suggest living just outside or on the edge of San Francisco and taking the bus to school. This would save you money. You can read/study on the bus. I am sure you are a good cook so I am not worried about you feeding yourself. If you need help learning how to buy rice and other food you like at discount prices I can send you information about that.

I am not sure how many schools you applied to but your LSAT score will get you into schools in the GGU range, so applying to other schools will not likely improve your options.
If you start GGU it would be difficult to take the LSAT and apply to other universities since you would be busy studying new material. Do you get 2-3 months off each year at GGU, or are you planning to do summer school?

So if you trust yourself, know you are willing to work hard, and pass the bar, then you will eventually become successful. From what I know about you, I have confidence that you would be great no matter what you do.

[cavalier1138]

Why do you think a professor of medicine would have any idea about law school admissions and legal career opportunities for international students?

(Hint: your contact may be a great professor in their field. They're an idiot when it comes to this subject.)

[lauraleeli]

Literally do anything else rather than attend GGU

anything else. its really good you are having these hesitations now!

Well, GGU gave me kinda financial relief.

Did you know over half of their students lose at least part of their scholarships after the first year?

I know that. So I will work on it very hard. I came from a very competitive school in Shanghai. I know the dire situation.

Everyone is going to work very hard, and not everyone can keep their scholarships because law schools grade on a curve. Golden Gate is one of the worst schools in the country and you will absolutely not find a job that will sponsor your visa even if you graduate top 5% from GGU (you most likely won't graduate top 5%).

Even if you decide to transfer out (which you shouldn't since you most likely wont get any money from your new school and because transferring is very difficult) you still likely won't move into the range of schools needed for you to get a job at a place that will sponsor your visa. That's how bad GGU is. Picture me, a US student, asking you if I should attend the worst school in China? Would you suggest that I go?

Also, Touro law school is not even close to New York City. It's like an hour and a half drive away and you'll never get a job in NYC with a Touro Law degree.

Thank you for being so sincere. I do think if I were at your position, I would not suggest you to attend the school. But some people still do attend the worst schools. If finance is permissible, after 1L transfer from GGU to Berkeley T12 is possible. Back to my Shanghai U, it's the best literal U in Shanghai, and I took the evening class, worked while studying, still I graduated with top 5% of the class, I was even at the worse position when I got enrolled in a comparison with other students.

I did research about Touro Law, it's relatively new. I am not considering it after I got GGU admitted.

[lauraleeli]

Literally do anything else rather than attend GGU

But I don't like my current job, earning minimum wages and everything is so messed up. I would like the US so much better.

That's admirable and fine, but attending GGU will likely not get you a better job in the US. There are a million other things that you can do in the US other than attend a bad law school that gives you almost no chance at getting the job you want.

*Unrelated: glad that TLS isn't blocked by the Great Firewall of China haha

I don't have a chance to go to the US, if I don't go to schools. I am committed to law schools, I am going to be a lawyer definitely, up on all other goals.

PS: TLS is known only among small percentage of people who want to go to law schools, besides, it has no finance conflicts, of course it is not gonna block TLS.

[lauraleeli]

PS: Can I attend GGU, later drop out, then take LSAT and apply again? In doing this way, I don't have to stick in China, I really hate my situation here.

I'm not sure, but if you drop out, can you even stay in the US or would you have to go back to China? I assume that if you come, it would be on a student visa.

Yes, I will take a student visa, I don't know either if I drop out, I will still be allowed to stay in the US.

[lauraleeli]

Why do ppl take these posts seriously

Coz, I am serious. Therefore ppl who cares take it seriously.

[lauraleeli]

Have you considered an MBA?

No MBA, only a lawyer, lawyer, lawyer. This is a sure thing.

[lauraleeli]

OP, I think you're serious for what it's worth, and I understand that your situation likely is different from most going to American law schools. You may have trouble upping your LSAT score because English is not your first language and the LSAT is difficult enough, even for Americans.

Some real talk, though, if you're coming to America to go to GGU and intending to stay you're giving yourself no shot except one of finding/marrying an American citizen within a 3 year time span. Your 1L year will essentially be split between trying to maintain your scholarship and trying to find husband material. GGU will almost certainly not land you a job that will keep you in the states, so that's your option. I get that you likely worked your butt off in Uni in Shanghai. Kudos. This is not going to have adequately prepared you for law school in the states. You're flying blind like the rest of the 1Ls and, let's be real, if you have a professor who notices your ESL writing (it's obvious) it may be a detriment to your grades.

So, if you are cool with busting your butt and finding a husband that's your best shot at meeting your goal. I wish you luck if that's what you ultimately choose. However, don't attend GGU thinking that you have any backup to that plan outside of a miracle.

Career first, marriage second!!!

[lauraleeli]

Why do you think a professor of medicine would have any idea about law school admissions and legal career opportunities for international students?

(Hint: your contact may be a great professor in their field. They're an idiot when it comes to this subject.)

You may be right. But successful stories share some fundamental principles sometimes.