What's So Great About Biglaw?

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luckyirish13

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Re: What's So Great About Biglaw?

Postby luckyirish13 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:24 am

guybourdin wrote:
luckyirish13 wrote:would someone like to make an argument that actually reaches out to me/convinces me, about what makes BigLaw so great?


No, I don't think anyone wants to do that. No one is saying its "so great", no one is saying you need to want to do it. You can have your own goals. Do you want someone to convince you to want biglaw?
Not really. I do have my own goals and I'm pretty certain I don't want BigLaw, so it doesn't factor much into my ideal school placement. But if someone was to show me that a career in BigLaw is a positive that aligns with my goals and interests, I would have to reconsider what schools are important.

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Re: What's So Great About Biglaw?

Postby Moneytrees » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:25 am

luckyirish13 wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:
luckyirish13 wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:
Negative. ND does place a decent amount of grads into regional biglaw firms in the Midwest, but landing one of those jobs would be unlikely for you since you are from California. Seriously, the Midwest is insanely insular. You'd have to be in the top 10 or 15% to even have a shot.
huh, I didn't know this. I have lived in St. Louis and my Mom is from there so I have contacts in the city. Is that not gonna cut it?


Probably not. Plus, St. Louis has a tiny Biglaw market so even if you grew up there it would be foolish to believe you would be one of the few people from ND to land one of those jobs. Even WUSTL grads struggle to land Biglaw there.
That's helpful to know. So if BigLaw does become part of my interest, Notre Dame doesn't have great odds for me even at a local level without being from the Midwest for a long period of time.

So with that said, would someone like to make an argument that actually reaches out to me/convinces me, about what makes BigLaw so great?


Most people do it because they have to. If you take out a lot of debt to go to law school, Biglaw is pretty much the only way to service it.

Some people do it because of the prestige and the good exit options.

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Re: What's So Great About Biglaw?

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:51 am

Based on the OP's comment in another thread to "commit to getting a 4.0" in law school, I'm excited for the 1L curve to shatter their libertarian ethos.

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Re: What's So Great About Biglaw?

Postby zot1 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:47 am

luckyirish13 wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:
luckyirish13 wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:
Negative. ND does place a decent amount of grads into regional biglaw firms in the Midwest, but landing one of those jobs would be unlikely for you since you are from California. Seriously, the Midwest is insanely insular. You'd have to be in the top 10 or 15% to even have a shot.
huh, I didn't know this. I have lived in St. Louis and my Mom is from there so I have contacts in the city. Is that not gonna cut it?


Probably not. Plus, St. Louis has a tiny Biglaw market so even if you grew up there it would be foolish to believe you would be one of the few people from ND to land one of those jobs. Even WUSTL grads struggle to land Biglaw there.
That's helpful to know. So if BigLaw does become part of my interest, Notre Dame doesn't have great odds for me even at a local level without being from the Midwest for a long period of time.

So with that said, would someone like to make an argument that actually reaches out to me/convinces me, about what makes BigLaw so great?


Nah man. ND is for you. You can do anything coming out of ND. Go have fun and wear a t-shirt that says "kiss me, I'm Irish."

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Re: What's So Great About Biglaw?

Postby Nacho_Verde » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:18 am

GO to ND op. Just analyzing your writing style and calmness while being attacked by the liberal hive mind known as TLS, I'm sure you'll be top 10% if not top 3% at ND. I would say top of your class, but there's bound to be a liberal nut job on the faculty. Stick to your ideas. Stay strong. Make us proud.

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Re: What's So Great About Biglaw?

Postby zot1 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:27 am

Nacho_Verde wrote:GO to ND op. Just analyzing your writing style and calmness while being attacked by the liberal hive mind known as TLS, I'm sure you'll be top 10% if not top 3% at ND. I would say top of your class, but there's bound to be a liberal nut job on the faculty. Stick to your ideas. Stay strong. Make us proud.


I think if OP commits to it, he can be top 1%.

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Re: What's So Great About Biglaw?

Postby luckyirish13 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:03 pm

Ah thanks guyz. I'm glad you believe in me. I appreciate the genuine respect and sympathetic affection you exude. Y'all so sweet. <3

On a serious note, Cavalier I only mentioned that to her because she was facing the prospects of 4 years at a place she knew she would hate, and was her GPA hurts her admission chances, so between the two schools she was looking at, assuming she had to pick one, I was simply pointing out that she has the possibility of transferring. (Edited because I initially misspoke)
Last edited by luckyirish13 on Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What's So Great About Biglaw?

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:07 pm

luckyirish13 wrote:Ah thanks guyz. I'm glad you believe in me. I appreciate the genuine respect and sympathetic affection you exude. Y'all so sweet. <3

On a serious note, Cavalier I only mentioned that to her because she was facing the prospects of 4 years at a place she knew she would hate, and was already past the point of being able to retake the LSAT, so it was her only option. I was simply pointing out that she has the possibility of transferring.


Yes, and I only mentioned that you said something ridiculous because you said something ridiculous. I was simply pointing out that planning on transferring, or saying something as monumentally stupid as "commit to getting a 4.0" is harmful advice.

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Re: What's So Great About Biglaw?

Postby Npret » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:17 pm

luckyirish13 wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:
luckyirish13 wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:
Negative. ND does place a decent amount of grads into regional biglaw firms in the Midwest, but landing one of those jobs would be unlikely for you since you are from California. Seriously, the Midwest is insanely insular. You'd have to be in the top 10 or 15% to even have a shot.
huh, I didn't know this. I have lived in St. Louis and my Mom is from there so I have contacts in the city. Is that not gonna cut it?


Probably not. Plus, St. Louis has a tiny Biglaw market so even if you grew up there it would be foolish to believe you would be one of the few people from ND to land one of those jobs. Even WUSTL grads struggle to land Biglaw there.
That's helpful to know. So if BigLaw does become part of my interest, Notre Dame doesn't have great odds for me even at a local level without being from the Midwest for a long period of time.

So with that said, would someone like to make an argument that actually reaches out to me/convinces me, about what makes BigLaw so great?

Are you serious? No, no one is going to convince you to take Biglaw if you aren't seduced by/ striving for money and status. Although from skimming your posts and your tone, you seem to be a striver.
Last edited by Npret on Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What's So Great About Biglaw?

Postby guynourmin » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:17 pm

luckyirish13 wrote:Ah thanks guyz. I'm glad you believe in me. I appreciate the genuine respect and sympathetic affection you exude. Y'all so sweet. <3

On a serious note, Cavalier I only mentioned that to her because she was facing the prospects of 4 years at a place she knew she would hate, and was already past the point of being able to retake the LSAT, so it was her only option. I was simply pointing out that she has the possibility of transferring.


No she wasn't/isn't. She never said anything close to that She actually seemed open to retaking.

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Re: What's So Great About Biglaw?

Postby luckyirish13 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:28 pm

guybourdin wrote:
luckyirish13 wrote:Ah thanks guyz. I'm glad you believe in me. I appreciate the genuine respect and sympathetic affection you exude. Y'all so sweet. <3

On a serious note, Cavalier I only mentioned that to her because she was facing the prospects of 4 years at a place she knew she would hate, and was already past the point of being able to retake the LSAT, so it was her only option. I was simply pointing out that she has the possibility of transferring.


No she wasn't/isn't. She never said anything close to that She actually seemed open to retaking.
Oh my bad you're right I just read it again. It was her GPA not the LSAT. The ideal would be for her to retake the LSAT.

Either way this is off topic. If anyone has anything to add about BigLaw besides money/prestige/resume building, or maybe some positive experiences they've had in this environment, I'm all ears. Otherwise I think this thread has more than run it's course.

@npret: I do strive for positive impacts on the world around me, but I'm not really worried about personal prestige or money.

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Re: What's So Great About Biglaw?

Postby merde_happens » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:02 pm

I remain confused as to why you think anyone cares enough to actually take time out of their day to promote the qualities of Big Law to you. People have given you the pros and cons of the career, which is really all you can ask. Like everyone else, you should weigh those pros and cons alongside your career goals and lifestyle preferences and make a decision accordingly. But nobody here has a stake in seeing you choose a big law career such that they're going to try to convince you to pursue Big Law.

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Re: What's So Great About Biglaw?

Postby luckyirish13 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:00 pm

luckyirish13 wrote:If anyone has anything to add about BigLaw besides money/prestige/resume building, or maybe some positive experiences they've had in this environment, I'm all ears. Otherwise I think this thread has more than run it's course.

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Re: What's So Great About Biglaw?

Postby sublime » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:23 pm

luckyirish13 wrote:
luckyirish13 wrote:If anyone has anything to add about BigLaw besides money/prestige/resume building, or maybe some positive experiences they've had in this environment, I'm all ears. Otherwise I think this thread has more than run it's course.


Training is good, often connected to exit options though. And my experience in 7 months at a NYC "sweatshop" firm has been generally positive.


Nobody is saying you should do biglaw though. We are saying that you are underestimating the difficulty of getting any job and biglaw placement seems to correlate with general success getting any job.


And the ls curve can be brutal.

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Re: What's So Great About Biglaw?

Postby guynourmin » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:24 pm

merde_happens wrote:I remain confused as to why you think anyone cares enough to actually take time out of their day to promote the qualities of Big Law to you. People have given you the pros and cons of the career, which is really all you can ask. Like everyone else, you should weigh those pros and cons alongside your career goals and lifestyle preferences and make a decision accordingly. But nobody here has a stake in seeing you choose a big law career such that they're going to try to convince you to pursue Big Law.

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Re: What's So Great About Biglaw?

Postby BigZuck » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:53 pm

OP- What's so great about Libertarianism?

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Re: What's So Great About Biglaw?

Postby candidlatke » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:11 pm

guybourdin wrote:
merde_happens wrote:I remain confused as to why you think anyone cares enough to actually take time out of their day to promote the qualities of Big Law to you. People have given you the pros and cons of the career, which is really all you can ask. Like everyone else, you should weigh those pros and cons alongside your career goals and lifestyle preferences and make a decision accordingly. But nobody here has a stake in seeing you choose a big law career such that they're going to try to convince you to pursue Big Law.

not sure what you want here op. you asked for why people go into biglaw, people are telling you why people go into biglaw, and you're trying to argue(?) why you don't want it...?

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Re: What's So Great About Biglaw?

Postby zot1 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:45 pm

I'm having an Irish red beer, and it made me really sad I didn't go to ND for school. I could have claimed the culture, you know? Call myself a real Irish having Irish beer. OP, you're so lucky.

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Re: What's So Great About Biglaw?

Postby WheninLaw » Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:10 pm

luckyirish13 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
luckyirish13 wrote:Also with regards to regional schools, they may only get certain people hired by BigLaw, but I would only be going to a regional school assuming a full ride scholarship, meaning there would be little to lose. Once in a regional school, I should have one of the best GPA's in a regional school considering I'd be overqualified compared to the other applicants, so out of the 10% the local BigLaw firm hires, as long as I have been keeping on top of schoolwork, I would presumably be one of their top targets.

Eh, it's actually pretty hard to predict that kind of thing. I also don't think anyone's said you shouldn't go to ND with a full scholarship, so I guess I'm not really sure what you're arguing against?

Edit: also not sure where you're getting 74% for McGeorge: https://www.lstreports.com/schools/pacific/
Well yeah the goal is ND on scholarship. Got a year to make that happen.

Huh, Princeton Review had em at a 74% last I checked. Either way, they're lower on my list, but they'd still work for the jobs I'm looking at.


OP, I have no idea where you get the sense that McGeorge is respected in Northern California. I'm from there, and worked in Sacramento, and aside from some old school partners from the 80's, nobody thinks McGeorge is worth shit. We'd have hired UC Irvine kids over McGeorge kids in a heartbeat.

Edit: This reminds me of when someone says "but Hastings is respected in San Francisco!" By the old partners that have no input in hiring decisions, maybe.

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Re: What's So Great About Biglaw?

Postby luckyirish13 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:45 pm

WheninLaw wrote:OP, I have no idea where you get the sense that McGeorge is respected in Northern California. I'm from there, and worked in Sacramento, and aside from some old school partners from the 80's, nobody thinks McGeorge is worth shit. We'd have hired UC Irvine kids over McGeorge kids in a heartbeat.

Edit: This reminds me of when someone says "but Hastings is respected in San Francisco!" By the old partners that have no input in hiring decisions, maybe.
Huh, interesting. Yeah most of the ones I've talked to have been older lawyers, most of whom are partners at their respective firms. Maybe that is skewing my perspective. The newer numbers don't look as good. Apparently the school has experienced a drop-off, so you're probably right.

BigZuck wrote:OP- What's so great about Libertarianism?
I'm happy to have this discussion, but I don't want to spam and it seems off topic here. Feel free to PM me about it though. :)

One more thing, nobody is required to comment at all. But if you have information that is pertinent to the thread topic, I would love to hear from your experiences, although that is entirely your own choice. We've already established the skeletal answers of why one would choose BigLaw, which is technically the purpose of the thread, and it has been fulfilled, so I'm completely fine with the thread being concluded. But if there is something that someone can add that is new and helpful for painting a positive (or negative) picture of BigLaw, that would be an element the thread has not yet answered.

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Re: What's So Great About Biglaw?

Postby BlendedUnicorn » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:17 pm

As a rule of thumb old lawyers give the worst career advice. They often aren't aware of how the legal market has changed since their day and they're also the most subject to confirmation bias- they're the ones for whom everything worked well.

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Re: What's So Great About Biglaw?

Postby BigZuck » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:33 pm

luckyirish13 wrote:
WheninLaw wrote:OP, I have no idea where you get the sense that McGeorge is respected in Northern California. I'm from there, and worked in Sacramento, and aside from some old school partners from the 80's, nobody thinks McGeorge is worth shit. We'd have hired UC Irvine kids over McGeorge kids in a heartbeat.

Edit: This reminds me of when someone says "but Hastings is respected in San Francisco!" By the old partners that have no input in hiring decisions, maybe.
Huh, interesting. Yeah most of the ones I've talked to have been older lawyers, most of whom are partners at their respective firms. Maybe that is skewing my perspective. The newer numbers don't look as good. Apparently the school has experienced a drop-off, so you're probably right.

BigZuck wrote:OP- What's so great about Libertarianism?
I'm happy to have this discussion, but I don't want to spam and it seems off topic here. Feel free to PM me about it though. :)

One more thing, nobody is required to comment at all. But if you have information that is pertinent to the thread topic, I would love to hear from your experiences, although that is entirely your own choice. We've already established the skeletal answers of why one would choose BigLaw, which is technically the purpose of the thread, and it has been fulfilled, so I'm completely fine with the thread being concluded. But if there is something that someone can add that is new and helpful for painting a positive (or negative) picture of BigLaw, that would be an element the thread has not yet answered.

You're devoting your life to this political ideal but you can't even come up with the skeletal answers of why someone would choose to believe in it?

Weak.

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Re: What's So Great About Biglaw?

Postby luckyirish13 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:08 pm

BigZuck wrote:You're devoting your life to this political ideal but you can't even come up with the skeletal answers of why someone would choose to believe in it?

Weak.
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/844/770/e9d.jpg

If you want to have that discussion (and I'd be happy too) then PM me or start a new thread. :)

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Re: What's So Great About Biglaw?

Postby BigZuck » Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:39 am

luckyirish13 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:You're devoting your life to this political ideal but you can't even come up with the skeletal answers of why someone would choose to believe in it?

Weak.
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/844/770/e9d.jpg

If you want to have that discussion (and I'd be happy too) then PM me or start a new thread. :)

You were supposed to list a bunch of good things about libertarianism and I would be all like "Well ya besides that" and then you would list some more and I'd be like "Well ya ok but besides that" and it would be one big meta commentary on your inability to accept people's answers about the benefits of big law and we'd all have a good laugh and you'd realize that going through life this way ain't no way to be, there is a better way.

Anyway good luck, follow your dreams!

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Re: What's So Great About Biglaw?

Postby UVA2B » Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:45 am

BigZuck wrote:
luckyirish13 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:You're devoting your life to this political ideal but you can't even come up with the skeletal answers of why someone would choose to believe in it?

Weak.
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/844/770/e9d.jpg

If you want to have that discussion (and I'd be happy too) then PM me or start a new thread. :)

You were supposed to list a bunch of good things about libertarianism and I would be all like "Well ya besides that" and then you would list some more and I'd be like "Well ya ok but besides that" and it would be one big meta commentary on your inability to accept people's answers about the benefits of big law and we'd all have a good laugh and you'd realize that going through life this way ain't no way to be, there is a better way.

Anyway good luck, follow your dreams!


Yeah but, wouldn't that meta commentary really affect how I feel about meta commentary? I want to hear about how valid meta commentary is today.



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