Should I reapply if I applied really late this cycle?

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UVA2B

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Re: Should I reapply if I applied really late this cycle?

Postby UVA2B » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:38 pm

Thomas Hagan, ESQ. wrote:
bwaldorf wrote:
chicagoburger wrote:
Thomas Hagan, ESQ. wrote:OP, even if you don't re-take the LSAT, applying early will improve your chances at these schools drastically!

- Someone that re-applied early this year.


fuking loser

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HAHA I just saw this. Bless up.


OMG HAHA!


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Thomas Hagan, ESQ.

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Re: Should I reapply if I applied really late this cycle?

Postby Thomas Hagan, ESQ. » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:56 pm

UVA2B wrote:
Thomas Hagan, ESQ. wrote:
bwaldorf wrote:
chicagoburger wrote:
Thomas Hagan, ESQ. wrote:OP, even if you don't re-take the LSAT, applying early will improve your chances at these schools drastically!

- Someone that re-applied early this year.


fuking loser

User has been banned for turning the on-topics into their own personal battleground.


HAHA I just saw this. Bless up.


OMG HAHA!


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matchesmalone17

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Re: Should I reapply if I applied really late this cycle?

Postby matchesmalone17 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:59 pm

I am in a similar situation and was wondering the exact same thing tonight. Been lurking on TLS for a few months but am really stressed out about whether I should apply again next cycle and decided to chime in when I saw OP.

LSAT 170, GPA 3.0 from a top 5 school, ~5yrs significant WE. Applied everywhere on the last possible date (sent apps 1/31, 2/15, and 2/28). Applied to 23 schools. Close to full scholly at WUSTL, similar at William & Mary, half at UCLA after negotiating with the WUSTL offer. WL-ed at Northwestern, Duke, & Emory. Still waiting to hear back from UVA, Michigan, Texas, and Georgetown (also a few schools higher ranked I expect to get dinged at and a few schools lower ranked than WUSTL that I don't expect I would attend given current options). Didn't submit optional "why X" essays anywhere, didn't interview at NW (I was an idiot for not doing both of these things).

I actually feel okay about WUSTL and UCLA, but if I could get significantly better results re-applying early, I can't shake the feeling that it would be stupid not to. I have big dreams post-law school (federal clerkship, litigate at the ACLU) and think that going to a significantly higher ranked school would make a difference.

It seems like the general consensus on TLS is to retake LSAT and re-apply with better numbers. Is there like a master thread on here of how to think through that?

Is there a chance if I re-apply early next year that I will have essentially the same options? If I re-apply to schools I turn down this cycle, am I basically turning those schools down for good (like would they say wtf we let you in last cycle, why would we do that again)?

I could retake the LSAT in June, but I'm not confident I would get a significantly higher score. My avg PT was like a 165 and I was thrilled when I got a 170.

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Re: Should I reapply if I applied really late this cycle?

Postby UVA2B » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:02 am

matchesmalone17 wrote:I am in a similar situation and was wondering the exact same thing tonight. Been lurking on TLS for a few months but am really stressed out about whether I should apply again next cycle and decided to chime in when I saw OP.

LSAT 170, GPA 3.0 from a top 5 school, ~5yrs significant WE. Applied everywhere on the last possible date (sent apps 1/31, 2/15, and 2/28). Applied to 23 schools. Close to full scholly at WUSTL, similar at William & Mary, half at UCLA after negotiating with the WUSTL offer. WL-ed at Northwestern, Duke, & Emory. Still waiting to hear back from UVA, Michigan, Texas, and Georgetown (also a few schools higher ranked I expect to get dinged at and a few schools lower ranked than WUSTL that I don't expect I would attend given current options). Didn't submit optional "why X" essays anywhere, didn't interview at NW (I was an idiot for not doing both of these things).

I actually feel okay about WUSTL and UCLA, but if I could get significantly better results re-applying early, I can't shake the feeling that it would be stupid not to. I have big dreams post-law school (federal clerkship, litigate at the ACLU) and think that going to a significantly higher ranked school would make a difference.

It seems like the general consensus on TLS is to retake LSAT and re-apply with better numbers. Is there like a master thread on here of how to think through that?

Is there a chance if I re-apply early next year that I will have essentially the same options? If I re-apply to schools I turn down this cycle, am I basically turning those schools down for good (like would they say wtf we let you in last cycle, why would we do that again)?

I could retake the LSAT in June, but I'm not confident I would get a significantly higher score. My avg PT was like a 165 and I was thrilled when I got a 170.


1. Retake.
2. Regardless of score, reapply.
3. Profit

ETA: I'm not good at this sort of simplistic post. You're best off retaking the LSAT simply because you have nothing to lose. From there, apply early in the cycle. Your results will improve (this is not a guarantee, just based on observation). Finally, you can use your relatively better options to negotiate even bigger discounts at target schools because you've maximized your negotiating position.

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Thomas Hagan, ESQ.

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Re: Should I reapply if I applied really late this cycle?

Postby Thomas Hagan, ESQ. » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:12 am

matchesmalone17 wrote:I am in a similar situation and was wondering the exact same thing tonight. Been lurking on TLS for a few months but am really stressed out about whether I should apply again next cycle and decided to chime in when I saw OP.

LSAT 170, GPA 3.0 from a top 5 school, ~5yrs significant WE. Applied everywhere on the last possible date (sent apps 1/31, 2/15, and 2/28). Applied to 23 schools. Close to full scholly at WUSTL, similar at William & Mary, half at UCLA after negotiating with the WUSTL offer. WL-ed at Northwestern, Duke, & Emory. Still waiting to hear back from UVA, Michigan, Texas, and Georgetown (also a few schools higher ranked I expect to get dinged at and a few schools lower ranked than WUSTL that I don't expect I would attend given current options). Didn't submit optional "why X" essays anywhere, didn't interview at NW (I was an idiot for not doing both of these things).

I actually feel okay about WUSTL and UCLA, but if I could get significantly better results re-applying early, I can't shake the feeling that it would be stupid not to. I have big dreams post-law school (federal clerkship, litigate at the ACLU) and think that going to a significantly higher ranked school would make a difference.

It seems like the general consensus on TLS is to retake LSAT and re-apply with better numbers. Is there like a master thread on here of how to think through that?

Is there a chance if I re-apply early next year that I will have essentially the same options? If I re-apply to schools I turn down this cycle, am I basically turning those schools down for good (like would they say wtf we let you in last cycle, why would we do that again)?

I could retake the LSAT in June, but I'm not confident I would get a significantly higher score. My avg PT was like a 165 and I was thrilled when I got a 170.


I agree, leave no stones unturned! Exactly the same mentality that I had last year before I decided to reapply.

I also feel like waiting an extra year gives even more advantages, besides better admission/scholarship results:

1. I have many more connections/mentors at work from that extra year of spending every day with them.
2. I'm much more excited/confident about law school.
3. I have a lot more $ saved up than I did last year.
4. I got to relax and recharge after busting ass jr/sr year to bring up my mediocre GPA + 1 straight year of LSAT studying.

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Re: Should I reapply if I applied really late this cycle?

Postby melmelcoolj » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:40 am

matchesmalone17 wrote:I am in a similar situation and was wondering the exact same thing tonight. Been lurking on TLS for a few months but am really stressed out about whether I should apply again next cycle and decided to chime in when I saw OP.

LSAT 170, GPA 3.0 from a top 5 school, ~5yrs significant WE. Applied everywhere on the last possible date (sent apps 1/31, 2/15, and 2/28). Applied to 23 schools. Close to full scholly at WUSTL, similar at William & Mary, half at UCLA after negotiating with the WUSTL offer. WL-ed at Northwestern, Duke, & Emory. Still waiting to hear back from UVA, Michigan, Texas, and Georgetown (also a few schools higher ranked I expect to get dinged at and a few schools lower ranked than WUSTL that I don't expect I would attend given current options). Didn't submit optional "why X" essays anywhere, didn't interview at NW (I was an idiot for not doing both of these things).

I actually feel okay about WUSTL and UCLA, but if I could get significantly better results re-applying early, I can't shake the feeling that it would be stupid not to. I have big dreams post-law school (federal clerkship, litigate at the ACLU) and think that going to a significantly higher ranked school would make a difference.

It seems like the general consensus on TLS is to retake LSAT and re-apply with better numbers. Is there like a master thread on here of how to think through that?

Is there a chance if I re-apply early next year that I will have essentially the same options? If I re-apply to schools I turn down this cycle, am I basically turning those schools down for good (like would they say wtf we let you in last cycle, why would we do that again)?

I could retake the LSAT in June, but I'm not confident I would get a significantly higher score. My avg PT was like a 165 and I was thrilled when I got a 170.


Thanks for the message. I feel like we would both get better results next cycle, though nothing is guaranteed. However, I feel a little differently about retaking. Since our GPAs pretty much keep us out of some options, I don't think increasing on the LSAT would really increase our chances that much. To be honest, we are already above 75% at the lower T14. Go ahead and retake if you want to, but if your PT average is a 165, you are probably not getting anywhere close to 175 on the real test. It comes down to how demanding your job is, and how many other obligations you have in your life.

And it is not too late to submit Why essays to Texas, UVA, Georgetown, etc. You can still do that. But if you decide to throw out this cycle and start anew, you can ignore my advice. You can always ride those waitlists till the very end, but you don't have to. It is probably too late for you to do the NU interview, but you probably should do that next cycle - if there is one.

I have since submitted Why essays to Texas (solicited), UVA, Duke, Michigan and Penn. And I plan to write one for NYU soon. And I have written LOCIs for Cornell and Duke.

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Re: Should I reapply if I applied really late this cycle?

Postby capnobvious123 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:36 pm

Hi all, I'm in a similar situation with different numbers, and was hoping you might all also be willing to give me some advice.

I've already taken the LSAT my 3 times, so I'm SOL on more retakes, unfortunately maxed out at 167 with a 3.85 lsac GPA. My softs aren't spectacular, probably pretty average for someone with my numbers. I applied late both cycles (this is my second), apps went out January 10th this time around. I've been out of undergrad a few years now, and I'm turning 26 soon. I'm working a steady job that I don't hate and which pays well, so it's possible for me to just wait another cycle, but at this point I really just feel like I'm dragging my feet rather than moving on with my life.

My first cycle I was applying with a 165 and essentially WL'd to all of the T14 except Duke and Penn which rejected me.

I've dinged at Penn (my top choice) and Berkeley, priority reserve'd at Duke and Georgetown, and reserved at Columbia. I'm in at Cornell and Texas with scholarship packages I'm not unhappy with and that I haven't yet negotiated to up, as well as Emory, GW, Temple, and Villanova which I'm less keen on attending for obvious reasons. I still haven't heard from Northwestern, NYU, UVA, and Vanderbilt, but other than Vanderbilt they're probably all dings.

I really had my heart set on Penn, but don't have a super clear picture of my career goals, other than Biglaw for training/debt recovery and then out of biglaw for something worth caring about.

I wrote a Why X for Penn pretty late along with an LOCI that I sent out 3/13, before I was dinged on 3/20.
I wrote LOCI's for Northwestern (pre-response), Columbia (post WL), Duke (post WL), Georgetown (post WL), but nothing has come of those yet.

I'm wondering if people thought that applying again another cycle is likely to change my results. I'm inclined to think not, because there won't be any viable changes to my applications other than the submit date at this point, and possibly some more Why X's. I'm supposing at this point I'm going to have to suck it up and be happy with Cornell or Texas, and maybe try to transfer up if possible. Thoughts?

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Re: Should I reapply if I applied really late this cycle?

Postby Rigo » Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:27 am

capnobvious123 wrote:I'm supposing at this point I'm going to have to suck it up and be happy with Cornell or Texas, and maybe try to transfer up if possible. Thoughts?

What is your cost of attendance for each?
Cornell with good scholarship for biglaw is a pretty decent outcome.

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Re: Should I reapply if I applied really late this cycle?

Postby Veil of Ignorance » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:33 am

melmelcoolj wrote:Thanks everyone for the detailed advice you gave me. I gather from this thread that I should reapply next year, unless I miraculously get off one of the T6 waitlists I will be on. It does not feel good to be rejected, but I guess I will have to reapply. I am not sure if I will retake - I have a lot of work responsibilities, and I don't think I will have enough time to buckle down and study for the LSAT.

Another update: I received an email from Georgetown today saying that I am on the Preferred Waitlist. I believe there is another tier of "very preferred" waitlist - or something to that effect. Now I am simply worried that my application is seriously flawed (in addition to late), so they would not even place me on the "special" list.

It just occurred to me that I have another question: I am wondering if I should visit those schools that waitlisted me in May? If that would increase my chances, I may be able to spare some money for that trip. I am currently in another part of the world, so I will literally have to spend 3000-4000 dollars on the trip, but I believe that is tolerable if that is a good admission move.


Definitely don't spend all that $$ just for a visit!

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Re: Should I reapply if I applied really late this cycle?

Postby melmelcoolj » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:51 am

Veil of Ignorance wrote:
melmelcoolj wrote:Thanks everyone for the detailed advice you gave me. I gather from this thread that I should reapply next year, unless I miraculously get off one of the T6 waitlists I will be on. It does not feel good to be rejected, but I guess I will have to reapply. I am not sure if I will retake - I have a lot of work responsibilities, and I don't think I will have enough time to buckle down and study for the LSAT.

Another update: I received an email from Georgetown today saying that I am on the Preferred Waitlist. I believe there is another tier of "very preferred" waitlist - or something to that effect. Now I am simply worried that my application is seriously flawed (in addition to late), so they would not even place me on the "special" list.

It just occurred to me that I have another question: I am wondering if I should visit those schools that waitlisted me in May? If that would increase my chances, I may be able to spare some money for that trip. I am currently in another part of the world, so I will literally have to spend 3000-4000 dollars on the trip, but I believe that is tolerable if that is a good admission move.


Definitely don't spend all that $$ just for a visit!


Yeah, when I think of it. I think you are right. I might as well just save up the money for next cycle.

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Re: Should I reapply if I applied really late this cycle?

Postby capnobvious123 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:22 am

Rigo wrote:
capnobvious123 wrote:I'm supposing at this point I'm going to have to suck it up and be happy with Cornell or Texas, and maybe try to transfer up if possible. Thoughts?

What is your cost of attendance for each?
Cornell with good scholarship for biglaw is a pretty decent outcome.


Cornell offered me 90k, and Texas offered 109k. I haven't begun negotiating, and I got an email from someone in financial aid at Texas recently essentially soliciting me to negotiate the aid package. Their deposit deadline is April 7th, so I sent in a request for an extension yesterday given that I still haven't heard back from 4 schools.

I don't have any debt from undergrad, but I also won't really have any support financially from relatives, so debt is a major issue.

Cornell with scholly for biglaw definitely is nothing to sneeze at, it could mean a shorter time to get rid of the debt in biglaw, but I dunno.

I suppose I've let rankings and such get into my head, and for various personal reasons I'm itchy to go to the best school I possibly can, so I'm hesitant about "settling" for either. But in the end, I'd probably be stuck paying sticker at Duke/UVA/Penn if I were to get in, which I've come to understand from lurking isn't by any measure preferable to nearly 2/3 scholly to Cornell.

So I guess I have two questions:
1. Is it likely that my outcomes might change if I were to apply super early next cycle with nearly no other change in my apps?
2. How feasible is it to transfer out of a Cornell/Texas to a Duke/UVA/Penn? Do you have to be at the top 10%, 1/3, etc to have a shot? How large is that shot?

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Re: Should I reapply if I applied really late this cycle?

Postby Rigo » Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:26 am

capnobvious123 wrote:So I guess I have two questions:
1. Is it likely that my outcomes might change if I were to apply super early next cycle with nearly no other change in my apps?
2. How feasible is it to transfer out of a Cornell/Texas to a Duke/UVA/Penn? Do you have to be at the top 10%, 1/3, etc to have a shot? How large is that shot?

1) without a retake, you might get in but the money wont be that great. I've seen some small UVA & Duke offers for people with your numbers (although they had 3.9x GPA's so maybe thats actually a huge factor) but people would probably just tell you to take Cornell anyways. I honestly fail to see the advantage Penn and UVA would give you over Cornell for your goals.
2) if you did well enough to transfer, you 100% shouldnt transfer.

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Re: Should I reapply if I applied really late this cycle?

Postby capnobvious123 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:02 pm

Rigo wrote:
capnobvious123 wrote:So I guess I have two questions:
1. Is it likely that my outcomes might change if I were to apply super early next cycle with nearly no other change in my apps?
2. How feasible is it to transfer out of a Cornell/Texas to a Duke/UVA/Penn? Do you have to be at the top 10%, 1/3, etc to have a shot? How large is that shot?

1) without a retake, you might get in but the money wont be that great. I've seen some small UVA & Duke offers for people with your numbers (although they had 3.9x GPA's so maybe thats actually a huge factor) but people would probably just tell you to take Cornell anyways. I honestly fail to see the advantage Penn and UVA would give you over Cornell for your goals.
2) if you did well enough to transfer, you 100% shouldnt transfer.


Thanks for your help/input. Can I ask what you mean by the second answer?

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Re: Should I reapply if I applied really late this cycle?

Postby Rigo » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:03 pm

capnobvious123 wrote:
Rigo wrote:
capnobvious123 wrote:So I guess I have two questions:
1. Is it likely that my outcomes might change if I were to apply super early next cycle with nearly no other change in my apps?
2. How feasible is it to transfer out of a Cornell/Texas to a Duke/UVA/Penn? Do you have to be at the top 10%, 1/3, etc to have a shot? How large is that shot?

1) without a retake, you might get in but the money wont be that great. I've seen some small UVA & Duke offers for people with your numbers (although they had 3.9x GPA's so maybe thats actually a huge factor) but people would probably just tell you to take Cornell anyways. I honestly fail to see the advantage Penn and UVA would give you over Cornell for your goals.
2) if you did well enough to transfer, you 100% shouldnt transfer.

Thanks for your help/input. Can I ask what you mean by the second answer?

Because you will have good enough grades to achieve your desired employment outcome, so why transfer and pay sticker for two years with no benefit?

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Re: Should I reapply if I applied really late this cycle?

Postby capnobvious123 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:09 pm

Rigo wrote:
capnobvious123 wrote:
Rigo wrote:
capnobvious123 wrote:So I guess I have two questions:
1. Is it likely that my outcomes might change if I were to apply super early next cycle with nearly no other change in my apps?
2. How feasible is it to transfer out of a Cornell/Texas to a Duke/UVA/Penn? Do you have to be at the top 10%, 1/3, etc to have a shot? How large is that shot?

1) without a retake, you might get in but the money wont be that great. I've seen some small UVA & Duke offers for people with your numbers (although they had 3.9x GPA's so maybe thats actually a huge factor) but people would probably just tell you to take Cornell anyways. I honestly fail to see the advantage Penn and UVA would give you over Cornell for your goals.
2) if you did well enough to transfer, you 100% shouldnt transfer.

Thanks for your help/input. Can I ask what you mean by the second answer?

Because you will have good enough grades to achieve your desired employment outcome, so why transfer and pay sticker for two years with no benefit?


Because I've been suckered by my own ego and USNWR and believe that to measure success/happiness I have to attend schools higher up on a flawed and arbitrary rankings list? *shakes fist*

Thank you again for your help. I'll make peace and be happy with my outcome I guess, haha.

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Re: Should I reapply if I applied really late this cycle?

Postby matchesmalone17 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:19 pm

One question on re-applying that I can't find an answer to:

If I re-apply next cycle to a school that I was offered admission to this cycle, am I at a disadvantage? Would UCLA or Georgetown hold it against me that I didn't accept their offers, or do I have a shot at better scholarships if I apply super early with the same stats next cycle?

I think that re-applying early would help me get into some of the T14s I was WL-ed at where I didn't submit "why X' essays (UVA, Michigan, Northwestern). But I'm wondering how much of a gamble it is if I'm okay with my current offers.

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Re: Should I reapply if I applied really late this cycle?

Postby Rigo » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:27 pm

matchesmalone17 wrote:One question on re-applying that I can't find an answer to:

If I re-apply next cycle to a school that I was offered admission to this cycle, am I at a disadvantage? Would UCLA or Georgetown hold it against me that I didn't accept their offers, or do I have a shot at better scholarships if I apply super early with the same stats next cycle?

I think that re-applying early would help me get into some of the T14s I was WL-ed at where I didn't submit "why X' essays (UVA, Michigan, Northwestern). But I'm wondering how much of a gamble it is if I'm okay with my current offers.

If you're okay with your current offers and won't be doing anything to material change your application then I'd probably just go.

If you do reapply next year, I'd do Why X essays for UCLA and Georgetown and have a plausible reason for why you waited a year only to reapply again. I'm not saying they'd hold it enough against you to reject you the second time around but they will probably realize they're the chopped liver.

Bottom line is you shouldn't take schools for granted as a splitter and every cycle will be unpredictable for you.



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