When to Take the Money and Run?

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )

Full Ride vs Full Loans

Full Ride (CLS/NYU/UCHI/etc)
62
71%
Full Loans (Yale)
23
26%
Other (Full Loans at Stanford)
2
2%
 
Total votes: 87

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tinman

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Re: When to Take the Money and Run?

Postby tinman » Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:40 pm

I think YLS at sticker is worth it over the full ride at Chicago and Columbia. I made this choice in 2009 (was offer the Hamilton and a full ride everywhere else except HYS), and many (it seemed like most) of my classmates did too. The reason is that you don't need to do well to have amazing opportunities. Most people have their picks of many dream jobs. The ability to get your pick of BigLaw is a huge advantage. Or government or PI stuff if that's your thing.

I was a stellar student before law school, but would I have been in the top quarter at Chicagos or Columbia? Maybe. Maybe not. I'm glad that I didn't have to find out. First year at YLS is ridiculously easy and low stress. I hear it's not the same at Columbia and Chicago. For what it's worth, 2L and 3L kind of sucks because most people at YLS are maniacs. People start spending too much time on journal crap (guilty), writing too many papers in case they want to become law professors (even more guilty), and angling for clerkships. But all three years could be super easy and low stress if you have the right attitude.

Anyway, debt sucks hard. I know I still have about 100K in law school debt because I have invested money in a house, a child, and retirement stuff (401k and mega backdoor Roths). But wasting three years is law school also sucks, especially if you don't like your job propects afterward.

Another thing--Yale is so easy you can easily work full time while you are there. For able, you can be a resident advisor for undergrads, being a TA for undergrads, or even get a job in Manhattan doing somthing. Personally, YLS plus a full time job is probably easier than some other law schools. Just saying there are ways to balance the scales so that going to YLS at sticker is not as dumb as you may think.

cavalier1138

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Re: When to Take the Money and Run?

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:25 pm

tinman wrote:I was a stellar student before law school, but would I have been in the top quarter at Chicagos or Columbia? Maybe. Maybe not. I'm glad that I didn't have to find out.


Why would you need to be in the top 25% of Chicago or Columbia to get a good outcome?

Congrats on Yale and everything, but students at Columbia and Chicago have access to all the opportunities you listed. Except the opportunity to work as a TA/RA for undergrads, which seems like a bit of a loose definition of the word "opportunity".

Npret

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Re: When to Take the Money and Run?

Postby Npret » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:31 pm

Cool story bro

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tinman

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Re: When to Take the Money and Run?

Postby tinman » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:39 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
tinman wrote:I was a stellar student before law school, but would I have been in the top quarter at Chicagos or Columbia? Maybe. Maybe not. I'm glad that I didn't have to find out.


Why would you need to be in the top 25% of Chicago or Columbia to get a good outcome?

Congrats on Yale and everything, but students at Columbia and Chicago have access to all the opportunities you listed. Except the opportunity to work as a TA/RA for undergrads, which seems like a bit of a loose definition of the word "opportunity".


I mentioned the RA and TA thing just as an example of how to close the gap on the difference in your (presumably negative) net worth at the end of law school.

Maybe everyone at Columbia and Chicago had awesome opportunities. But I always got the impression that class rank and whether you are on law review and stuff like that mattered a lot at Columbia at least.

Yale is so easy and relaxed that I think it's really hard to fail from there. To me, not having to stress or worrying about proving myself on blackletter timed tests was worth a lot.

baseballfan660

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Re: When to Take the Money and Run?

Postby baseballfan660 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:42 pm

tinman wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
tinman wrote:I was a stellar student before law school, but would I have been in the top quarter at Chicagos or Columbia? Maybe. Maybe not. I'm glad that I didn't have to find out.


Why would you need to be in the top 25% of Chicago or Columbia to get a good outcome?

Congrats on Yale and everything, but students at Columbia and Chicago have access to all the opportunities you listed. Except the opportunity to work as a TA/RA for undergrads, which seems like a bit of a loose definition of the word "opportunity".


I mentioned the RA and TA thing just as an example of how to close the gap on the difference in your (presumably negative) net worth at the end of law school.

Maybe everyone at Columbia and Chicago had awesome opportunities. But I always got the impression that class rank and whether you are on law review and stuff like that mattered a lot at Columbia at least.

Yale is so easy and relaxed that I think it's really hard to fail from there. To me, not having to stress or worrying about proving myself on blackletter timed tests was worth a lot.

if it's so easy is any one actually prepared to be a lawyer who comes out of Yale then?

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: When to Take the Money and Run?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:45 pm

No one comes out of any law school prepared to be a lawyer. (Or, more seriously, to the extent any law school teaches you how to be a lawyer, Yale accomplishes that as well as any other school.)

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Tiago Splitter

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Re: When to Take the Money and Run?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:11 am

tinman wrote:I think YLS at sticker is worth it over the full ride at Chicago and Columbia. I made this choice in 2009 (was offer the Hamilton and a full ride everywhere else except HYS), and many (it seemed like most) of my classmates did too. The reason is that you don't need to do well to have amazing opportunities. Most people have their picks of many dream jobs. The ability to get your pick of BigLaw is a huge advantage. Or government or PI stuff if that's your thing.

I was a stellar student before law school, but would I have been in the top quarter at Chicagos or Columbia? Maybe. Maybe not. I'm glad that I didn't have to find out. First year at YLS is ridiculously easy and low stress. I hear it's not the same at Columbia and Chicago. For what it's worth, 2L and 3L kind of sucks because most people at YLS are maniacs. People start spending too much time on journal crap (guilty), writing too many papers in case they want to become law professors (even more guilty), and angling for clerkships. But all three years could be super easy and low stress if you have the right attitude.

Anyway, debt sucks hard. I know I still have about 100K in law school debt because I have invested money in a house, a child, and retirement stuff (401k and mega backdoor Roths). But wasting three years is law school also sucks, especially if you don't like your job propects afterward.

Another thing--Yale is so easy you can easily work full time while you are there. For able, you can be a resident advisor for undergrads, being a TA for undergrads, or even get a job in Manhattan doing somthing. Personally, YLS plus a full time job is probably easier than some other law schools. Just saying there are ways to balance the scales so that going to YLS at sticker is not as dumb as you may think.

You would have done very well at Columbia or Chicago. You seem like a die hard grinder who never would have done poorly. The fact that you got full rides literally everywhere outside of HYS and then still, on purpose, worked hard 2L and 3L despite presumably getting a great outcome tells us all we need to know. 0L's making the same decision should keep this in mind. If you got into Yale let go of the imposter syndrome.

Brutus_the_Younger

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Postby Brutus_the_Younger » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:15 am

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cavalier1138

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Re: When to Take the Money and Run?

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:23 am

Brutus_the_Younger wrote:This forum is fine for many purposes, but I think people are debt adverse to the point of overlooking some very valuable intangibles.


Like the intangible quality of getting to say, "I went to school with someone who became a Supreme Court Justice, and it makes it easier to handle $300,000 in debt."

Look, I'm not ragging on Yale. It's a great school. It is, in fact, the best law school you can go to. But unless you have ridiculously unicorn-y goals, you don't need to go there, and you certainly don't need to turn down a full ride to CCN. You mentioned biglaw: what biglaw opportunities do your classmates have that you think CCN students don't have access to?

Your post seems to play into the worst stereotypes of people who chose Yale for the ability to tell others, "I went to Yale," instead of any objective benefits the school offers relative to other options.

Brutus_the_Younger

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Postby Brutus_the_Younger » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:41 am

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cavalier1138

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Re: When to Take the Money and Run?

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:44 am

Brutus_the_Younger wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:Your post seems to play into the worst stereotypes of people who chose Yale for the ability to tell others, "I went to Yale," instead of any objective benefits the school offers relative to other options.


If you ignore everything that I wrote in my post then I suppose I can see why you'd say that.


You literally referenced the "intangible" benefits of Yale, including going to school with future Supreme Court Justices, heads of state, and professors. You didn't even attempt to answer my question about what opportunities you think CCN students don't have with regards to biglaw. And yes, after reading your whole post, it basically says, "Prestige is worth about $200,000."

Brutus_the_Younger

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Postby Brutus_the_Younger » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:49 am

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Nebby

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Re: When to Take the Money and Run?

Postby Nebby » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:23 am

What's the definition of Stockholm syndrome?

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Re: When to Take the Money and Run?

Postby Nebby » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:24 am

"I chose Yale at sticker for the intangible benefit of putting it on my Tinder profile."

cavalier1138

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Re: When to Take the Money and Run?

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:28 am

Nebby wrote:"I chose Yale at sticker for the intangible benefit of putting it on my Tinder profile."


That definitely strikes me as a tangible benefit, wink wink nudge nudge say no more.

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lymenheimer

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Re: When to Take the Money and Run?

Postby lymenheimer » Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:37 am

(Goes Admitted to Yale)
(Is sps at making/understanding argument)

I knew that you didn't have to work to do well, but damn. Alternatively: They must teach you fine, practical things at that prestigious institution.

TIL Yale admits lemons.

Edited for accuracy.
Last edited by lymenheimer on Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

Brutus_the_Younger

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Postby Brutus_the_Younger » Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:48 am

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Nebby

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Re: When to Take the Money and Run?

Postby Nebby » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:16 am

Yale's problem is the lack of grades. I presume all Yale grads are sticker-suckers with deficient reasoning skills until proven otherwise because the lack of grades fosters methane huffing that leads to brain damage.

Brutus_the_Younger

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Postby Brutus_the_Younger » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:23 am

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Nebby

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Re: When to Take the Money and Run?

Postby Nebby » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:31 am

Brutus_the_Younger wrote:
Nebby wrote:Yale's problem is the lack of grades. I presume all Yale grads are sticker-suckers with deficient reasoning skills until proven otherwise because the lack of grades fosters methane huffing that leads to brain damage.


Luckily not enough brain damage to land at Michigan or NYU or whatever other TTT clown college you plebs are urging OP to attend.

Let's continue this discussion in the YLS admitted students page, OP. These aren't our kind of people.

confirmed sticker-sucker

lol

Nebby

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Re: When to Take the Money and Run?

Postby Nebby » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:32 am

OP, these are the great minds you'll be surrounded by at the preftegious YLS: dense goobers who want you to undertake $300k in debt to justify their own bad decisions. They're basically like addicts trying to get their friends to take a hit. "Yo bruh, this Ivy is the top-of-the-top. So what if you'll be shackled with debt; it's about the ~experience~ man."

Brutus_the_Younger

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Postby Brutus_the_Younger » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:34 am

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Nebby

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Re: When to Take the Money and Run?

Postby Nebby » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:36 am

Brutus_the_Younger wrote:
Nebby wrote:
Brutus_the_Younger wrote:
Nebby wrote:Yale's problem is the lack of grades. I presume all Yale grads are sticker-suckers with deficient reasoning skills until proven otherwise because the lack of grades fosters methane huffing that leads to brain damage.


Luckily not enough brain damage to land at Michigan or NYU or whatever other TTT clown college you plebs are urging OP to attend.

Let's continue this discussion in the YLS admitted students page, OP. These aren't our kind of people.

confirmed sticker-sucker

lol


Only uncouth vulgarians worry about price tags. I bet you buy your clothing off the clearance racks. Bespoke or bust.

Who shops in the store anymore? Time really left you behind, buddy

Brutus_the_Younger

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Postby Brutus_the_Younger » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:37 am

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BlendedUnicorn

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Re: When to Take the Money and Run?

Postby BlendedUnicorn » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:45 am

From my experience, the biggest downside of going to CCN instead of HYS is that once you're at the firms that almost everyone ends up at anyway, they make you put your suit jacket down over puddles if you went to CCN and you're trying to cross the street with HYS lawyers.

It's really embarrassing but assuming $1000 per jacket you still come out on top unless it happens like 200 times.



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