I got a 165 on my LSAT and have a 3.82 GPA. What schools should I be looking at?

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Lchi
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I got a 165 on my LSAT and have a 3.82 GPA. What schools should I be looking at?

Postby Lchi » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:41 am

I will not be applying until next cycle, but I recently got back my results for the February LSAT and received a 165, and my GPA is currently a 3.88 but that will fall to a 3.84 or 3.82 after this semester. I am a double major in Political Science and Philosophy at an extremely average state school, I am involved in a small handful of clubs with a couple leadership positions, I am a member of a fraternity (I know this does not mean too much to law schools), and I will graduate in three years (I don't know if this means anything either, but it is part of the reason I am not as involved-I didn't want to get too invested in anything knowing I wouldn't be in my undergrad for too long). Only work experience is a summer job with my local school district mowing for the last two summers. I know it's way too early for me to start applying, but when I do, which schools should I look into? My (extremely) tentative list is currently WUSTL, Georgetown, Texas-Austin, Berkeley, Vanderbilt, UCLA, USC, BU, Ohio State, Iowa, GWU, William and Mary, and Alabama. Money is a large issue and I am hoping to get large scholarships, some of the top schools on this list I do not expect to get scholarships to if I get accepted, but I threw them in anyway, just in case. Also, I do have one underage drinking ticket on my record, would that affect anything? Any suggestions for new schools, chances of getting into these, ones I should remove, or any information in general would be a great help, thanks

albinododobird
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Re: I got a 165 on my LSAT and have a 3.82 GPA. What schools should I be looking at?

Postby albinododobird » Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:36 am

Your list sounds pretty good. Where do you want to practice?

Retake the LSAT. If you improve by a few points, your chances at getting some good money are a lot higher.

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kellyfrost
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Re: I got a 165 on my LSAT and have a 3.82 GPA. What schools should I be looking at?

Postby kellyfrost » Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:45 am

Brigham Young University

Rubbishdump
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Re: I got a 165 on my LSAT and have a 3.82 GPA. What schools should I be looking at?

Postby Rubbishdump » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:44 am

You have months until June and even longer until Sept./Oct., retake and your options will grow exponentially.

BigZuck
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Re: I got a 165 on my LSAT and have a 3.82 GPA. What schools should I be looking at?

Postby BigZuck » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:48 am

Definitely retake June and then again October if need be.

Don't go to law school until you're a few years out of undergrad at a minimum.

NoDayButToday
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Re: I got a 165 on my LSAT and have a 3.82 GPA. What schools should I be looking at?

Postby NoDayButToday » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:11 pm

Underage drinking ticket won't hurt you--just make sure you disclose it if you're required to. 2 sentence addendum in your application, that expresses contrition.

Graduating in three years won't add anything. I worry that it might hurt you, though. Schools are increasingly wanting students who are further out of undergrad, with more work experience. In my experience, the people who are "K-JD" at least have a resume packed with summer internships or employment, and leadership at their schools.

With your numbers, you should have a good to okay shot at all of those schools, and probably could get good money at most of them, but I agree with everyone saying retake. When you have a GPA about 3.75, a 170s or even higher 160s LSAT score, can open up the T14 with money--or land you full scholarships at just about any of these schools.

Unless you're pretty sure what area of law you want to practice, and have wanted to go to law school for a while, I think I would also suggest taking 2-3 years off. This list is, regionally, and specialty-wise, all over the place. I probably wouldn't go to Alabama unless you want to work in the Deep South--or at least the South. I probably wouldn't go to Iowa, Ohio State, or WUSTL unless you want to work in the Midwest/Chicago. I probably wouldn't go to UCLA/USC unless you want to work on the West Coast. These are all excellent law schools, but a high ranking won't easily translate to the outcome you want if you're not in a region where you want to work.

For now, focus on maintaining your GPA.

Keilz
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Re: I got a 165 on my LSAT and have a 3.82 GPA. What schools should I be looking at?

Postby Keilz » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:22 pm

I have a 3.7x and I got a 166 initially in October 2015 and didn't get into Berkeley. Postponed a year to retake and reapply, and got a 169 in June 2016. I got into Berkeley and received scholarships at UVA, Michigan, Cornell, Duke, GW so far - most of them half tuition or higher. From June-November I was working on my apps and I was definitely an early applicant still. Heard back from all but two schools by Mid-Jan.

I think the best plan of action, with barely any opportunity cost to you, is to aim for at least a 2 point increase for the June test. It's totally possible, and doesn't delay your plans at all! After the test, you can focus on crafting a strong, cohesive app during the summer/fall, and reap the results! Good luck.

Also, to address come concerns in your post:

1. Speaking from experience, your ticket won't hurt you. Just write an explanation about what you learned.
2. It might be beneficial to get some work experience. It gives you more things to reference in your application, allows you to form an experience-based perspective of why law school, and builds your network. It also signifies that you are able to hold down a job.

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Rigo
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Re: I got a 165 on my LSAT and have a 3.82 GPA. What schools should I be looking at?

Postby Rigo » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:32 pm

If you're not applying until next year definitely retake. Even just 1-3 points higher will make a huge difference for both acceptance and scholarships at the T20 schools you're looking at.

favabeansoup
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Re: I got a 165 on my LSAT and have a 3.82 GPA. What schools should I be looking at?

Postby favabeansoup » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:05 pm

You need to narrow your focus in terms of where you would like to work post law school and what kind of jobs you are trying to get.

Right now you have schools that place all over the map. South, Texas, NYC, Boston, California, and Midwest. Unless you genuinely don't care about where you'd live (which people say but I never believe), start with where you'd like to have your career. Only once you get that figured out should you start looking at what schools can get you there.

You also need to figure out what kind of job you want. If you are biglaw or bust, you should 100% retake to get into a solid T-14 with scholarships. If you are more gov/pi focused, some schools on your list are sending ~20% of the class to those jobs, while others are sending 10% or less. You gotta go more in depth into the ABA employment statistics the schools publish.

As an example, you included BU so you must be somewhat interested in Boston. If you wanted Boston biglaw, however, BC has much better biglaw numbers than BU, yet you left BC out. Don't just follow the USNWR rankings blindly.

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studyingeveryday
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Re: I got a 165 on my LSAT and have a 3.82 GPA. What schools should I be looking at?

Postby studyingeveryday » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:19 pm

Hmm..if you don't have a lot of work/leadership experience, AND you're graduating in three years, you should seriously consider taking 1+ year off to work. Even if you don't, you 100% should retake since it was just your first take and you definitely have the time (both during undergrad and after).

With that GPA and LSAT, especially with the potential to do better, look at the t14. Also, you haven't even graduated yet, which means your GPA could increase even further, so keep studying, and don't neglect your classes at the expense of the LSAT, which you could even take after undergrad.

candidlatke
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Re: I got a 165 on my LSAT and have a 3.82 GPA. What schools should I be looking at?

Postby candidlatke » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:46 pm

a lsat school
Last edited by candidlatke on Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

Lchi
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Re: I got a 165 on my LSAT and have a 3.82 GPA. What schools should I be looking at?

Postby Lchi » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:47 pm

albinododobird wrote:Your list sounds pretty good. Where do you want to practice?

Retake the LSAT. If you improve by a few points, your chances at getting some good money are a lot higher.


WUSTL is currently my #1, since I am from the Midwest and would like to stay in that general area, maybe Chicago but wherever the wind takes me is fine

Lchi
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Re: I got a 165 on my LSAT and have a 3.82 GPA. What schools should I be looking at?

Postby Lchi » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:57 pm

NoDayButToday wrote:Underage drinking ticket won't hurt you--just make sure you disclose it if you're required to. 2 sentence addendum in your application, that expresses contrition.

Graduating in three years won't add anything. I worry that it might hurt you, though. Schools are increasingly wanting students who are further out of undergrad, with more work experience. In my experience, the people who are "K-JD" at least have a resume packed with summer internships or employment, and leadership at their schools.

With your numbers, you should have a good to okay shot at all of those schools, and probably could get good money at most of them, but I agree with everyone saying retake. When you have a GPA about 3.75, a 170s or even higher 160s LSAT score, can open up the T14 with money--or land you full scholarships at just about any of these schools.

Unless you're pretty sure what area of law you want to practice, and have wanted to go to law school for a while, I think I would also suggest taking 2-3 years off. This list is, regionally, and specialty-wise, all over the place. I probably wouldn't go to Alabama unless you want to work in the Deep South--or at least the South. I probably wouldn't go to Iowa, Ohio State, or WUSTL unless you want to work in the Midwest/Chicago. I probably wouldn't go to UCLA/USC unless you want to work on the West Coast. These are all excellent law schools, but a high ranking won't easily translate to the outcome you want if you're not in a region where you want to work.

For now, focus on maintaining your GPA.


What I am most worried about is that 165 was a solid 3 points better than any of my practice scores, I guess I either showed up on test day or got lucky, but either way, I am not sure that my retake would be any better, even with more practice, and I don't want a lower score to hurt me, since law schools can see all of your scores.

Lchi
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Re: I got a 165 on my LSAT and have a 3.82 GPA. What schools should I be looking at?

Postby Lchi » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:59 pm

Keilz wrote:I have a 3.7x and I got a 166 initially in October 2015 and didn't get into Berkeley. Postponed a year to retake and reapply, and got a 169 in June 2016. I got into Berkeley and received scholarships at UVA, Michigan, Cornell, Duke, GW so far - most of them half tuition or higher. From June-November I was working on my apps and I was definitely an early applicant still. Heard back from all but two schools by Mid-Jan.

I think the best plan of action, with barely any opportunity cost to you, is to aim for at least a 2 point increase for the June test. It's totally possible, and doesn't delay your plans at all! After the test, you can focus on crafting a strong, cohesive app during the summer/fall, and reap the results! Good luck.

Also, to address come concerns in your post:

1. Speaking from experience, your ticket won't hurt you. Just write an explanation about what you learned.
2. It might be beneficial to get some work experience. It gives you more things to reference in your application, allows you to form an experience-based perspective of why law school, and builds your network. It also signifies that you are able to hold down a job.



Just curious, what field did you work in during your year off?

Lchi
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Re: I got a 165 on my LSAT and have a 3.82 GPA. What schools should I be looking at?

Postby Lchi » Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:02 pm

favabeansoup wrote:You need to narrow your focus in terms of where you would like to work post law school and what kind of jobs you are trying to get.

Right now you have schools that place all over the map. South, Texas, NYC, Boston, California, and Midwest. Unless you genuinely don't care about where you'd live (which people say but I never believe), start with where you'd like to have your career. Only once you get that figured out should you start looking at what schools can get you there.

You also need to figure out what kind of job you want. If you are biglaw or bust, you should 100% retake to get into a solid T-14 with scholarships. If you are more gov/pi focused, some schools on your list are sending ~20% of the class to those jobs, while others are sending 10% or less. You gotta go more in depth into the ABA employment statistics the schools publish.

As an example, you included BU so you must be somewhat interested in Boston. If you wanted Boston biglaw, however, BC has much better biglaw numbers than BU, yet you left BC out. Don't just follow the USNWR rankings blindly.


Thanks for the info on BC, do you know of any other schools that might be further down the ranking list that I should look into? I am hoping to get into biglaw, and I know you don't believe me, but I do not especially care where I live, most of my social networks are in the Midwest, which is why I am hoping to get into WUSTL, but I would not be upset at all if the right offer took me across the country in any direction.

Keilz
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Re: I got a 165 on my LSAT and have a 3.82 GPA. What schools should I be looking at?

Postby Keilz » Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:33 pm

Lchi wrote:
Keilz wrote:I have a 3.7x and I got a 166 initially in October 2015 and didn't get into Berkeley. Postponed a year to retake and reapply, and got a 169 in June 2016. I got into Berkeley and received scholarships at UVA, Michigan, Cornell, Duke, GW so far - most of them half tuition or higher. From June-November I was working on my apps and I was definitely an early applicant still. Heard back from all but two schools by Mid-Jan.

I think the best plan of action, with barely any opportunity cost to you, is to aim for at least a 2 point increase for the June test. It's totally possible, and doesn't delay your plans at all! After the test, you can focus on crafting a strong, cohesive app during the summer/fall, and reap the results! Good luck.

Also, to address come concerns in your post:

1. Speaking from experience, your ticket won't hurt you. Just write an explanation about what you learned.
2. It might be beneficial to get some work experience. It gives you more things to reference in your application, allows you to form an experience-based perspective of why law school, and builds your network. It also signifies that you are able to hold down a job.



Just curious, what field did you work in during your year off?


I'm currently in immigration law right now - I will have taken three years off by the time I start this fall. Original plan was two years - I think 2 years is what most people do.

NoDayButToday
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Re: I got a 165 on my LSAT and have a 3.82 GPA. What schools should I be looking at?

Postby NoDayButToday » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:50 pm

Unless you get a score that is considerably lower, retaking and landing at about the same or going down a few points wouldn't be devastating. It's worth the risk if you're prepared and invested in the process. Take a good prep course or self-study with the Powerscore Bibles + lots of practice tests starting 2-3 months before the June test. You can go up.

If you probably want to be Midwest, I'd target U Chicago, Northwestern, Michigan, Iowa, Minnesota, Wash U, Notre Dame, Indiana, and Ohio State.

As you stand now, I think you get into all of those, with some or a lot of money, except Mich, NW, and Chi. Michigan and Northwestern would probably be a reach, but possible. Chicago a reach to hail Mary. But if you retake and go up even 2-3 points, which is within your "score band," I think Michigan and Northwestern likely, Chicago reach.

favabeansoup
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Re: I got a 165 on my LSAT and have a 3.82 GPA. What schools should I be looking at?

Postby favabeansoup » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:04 pm

Lchi wrote:
Thanks for the info on BC, do you know of any other schools that might be further down the ranking list that I should look into? I am hoping to get into biglaw, and I know you don't believe me, but I do not especially care where I live, most of my social networks are in the Midwest, which is why I am hoping to get into WUSTL, but I would not be upset at all if the right offer took me across the country in any direction.


Retake get a few points higher. Consider taking a year off to work between undergrad and law school if you aren't getting high enough scores. You could easily get into Northwestern or Michigan with decent scholarships if you just get a few points higher.

Those should be your target schools if you want Chicago/Midwest biglaw. Retaking LSAT a few times or taking a year off to get into the right school with right debt load is NOTHING compared to a 25-30 year career.

Moneytrees
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Re: I got a 165 on my LSAT and have a 3.82 GPA. What schools should I be looking at?

Postby Moneytrees » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:01 pm

If you want Chicago Biglaw, you should really plan on re-taking and targeting Chicago and NW. If you are from the Midwest, attending ND on a full ride could be an option as well. ND does better in Chicago than Wash U.




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