Harvard to Allow GRE in Place of LSAT

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alpinespring

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Re: Harvard to Allow GRE in place of LSAT

Postby alpinespring » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:18 pm

What's that thread with adcoms? Could you perhaps PM me the link? I'd very grateful!
Last edited by alpinespring on Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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heythatslife

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Re: Harvard to Allow GRE in Place of LSAT

Postby heythatslife » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:19 pm

alpinespring wrote:I'm genuinely curious -- from an employer's perspective -- doesn't this significantly lower the value of an HLS degree?

How can you be sure this HLS grad (who may have submitted GRE) has similar cognitive horsepower as other HLS grads (who took LSAT)?

The value of an HLS degree to an employer is in being able to say to clients that it has an X number of Harvard-trained lawyers. Doesn't really matter from that perspective.

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Re: Harvard to Allow GRE in place of LSAT

Postby dj9i27 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:19 pm

alpinespring wrote:
What's that thread with adcoms? Could you perhaps PM me the link? I'd very grateful!

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=275018
Last edited by dj9i27 on Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PrezRand

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Re: Harvard to Allow GRE in Place of LSAT

Postby PrezRand » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:25 pm

alpinespring wrote:I'm genuinely curious -- from an employer's perspective -- doesn't this significantly lower the value of an HLS degree?

How can you be sure this HLS grad (who may have submitted GRE) has similar cognitive horsepower as other HLS grads (who took LSAT)?

By how they do in law school

alpinespring

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Re: Harvard to Allow GRE in Place of LSAT

Postby alpinespring » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:29 pm

PrezRand wrote:
alpinespring wrote:I'm genuinely curious -- from an employer's perspective -- doesn't this significantly lower the value of an HLS degree?

How can you be sure this HLS grad (who may have submitted GRE) has similar cognitive horsepower as other HLS grads (who took LSAT)?

By how they do in law school


Oh right lol.

Wait... so does this mean HLS can be much more selective than before?

Couldn't the # of applicants to HLS expand 4 or 5 times? My gosh..

Don't you think like... 20,000 people may apply next year if you factor in the number of # GRE test-takers...WOW.

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PrezRand

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Re: Harvard to Allow GRE in Place of LSAT

Postby PrezRand » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:33 pm

alpinespring wrote:
PrezRand wrote:
alpinespring wrote:I'm genuinely curious -- from an employer's perspective -- doesn't this significantly lower the value of an HLS degree?

How can you be sure this HLS grad (who may have submitted GRE) has similar cognitive horsepower as other HLS grads (who took LSAT)?

By how they do in law school


Oh right lol.

Wait... so does this mean HLS can be much more selective than before?

Couldn't the # of applicants to HLS expand 4 or 5 times? My gosh..

Don't you think like... 20,000 people may apply next year if you factor in the number of # GRE test-takers...WOW.

No because HLS is expensive. Add that to the cost for a graduate degree at Harvard, the inability to work while in school, and amount of time it takes to get the degree, it's not worth it. You might see an increase in JD/MPP students though

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Re: Harvard to Allow GRE in Place of LSAT

Postby dj9i27 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:35 pm

alpinespring wrote:
PrezRand wrote:
alpinespring wrote:I'm genuinely curious -- from an employer's perspective -- doesn't this significantly lower the value of an HLS degree?

How can you be sure this HLS grad (who may have submitted GRE) has similar cognitive horsepower as other HLS grads (who took LSAT)?

By how they do in law school


Oh right lol.

Wait... so does this mean HLS can be much more selective than before?

Couldn't the # of applicants to HLS expand 4 or 5 times? My gosh..

Don't you think like... 20,000 people may apply next year if you factor in the number of # GRE test-takers...WOW.

I doubt their applicants will expand greatly and they'll probably only take 167+s on the GRE. I see this potentially working out for splitters with high LSAT/GRE scores if they count both for that one applicant.

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Re: Harvard to Allow GRE in Place of LSAT

Postby Bach-City » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:45 pm

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Last edited by Bach-City on Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

dj9i27

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Re: Harvard to Allow GRE in Place of LSAT

Postby dj9i27 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:49 pm

Bach-City wrote:My initial reaction to this is extremely negative. It took me 2 practice tests to get a 168 on the GRE on the actual exam. The equivalent percentile on the LSAT took me 40 tests and I needed 20 more to get to the 175 that got me into Columbia.

I worry that this will devalue the LSAT, and increase the value of "softs" which I think will boil down to 1) Elite undergrad 2) URM status

Would you think that the GRE in itself is a soft in cases of 177+ LSATs? Might help those folks if that was the case.

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EncyclopediaOrange

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Re: Harvard to Allow GRE in Place of LSAT

Postby EncyclopediaOrange » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:59 pm

Pure applesauce.

alpinespring

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Re: Harvard to Allow GRE in Place of LSAT

Postby alpinespring » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:00 pm

Bach-City wrote:My initial reaction to this is extremely negative. It took me 2 practice tests to get a 168 on the GRE on the actual exam. The equivalent percentile on the LSAT took me 40 tests and I needed 20 more to get to the 175 that got me into Columbia.

I worry that this will devalue the LSAT, and increase the value of "softs" which I think will boil down to 1) Elite undergrad 2) URM status



1000000000000%

But at the same time.... as pure speculation, is there any chance Harvard's decision has to do with Trump's election?
They may genuinely be trying to open the doors to people from more economically diverse backgrounds? Or not...

grades??

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Re: Harvard to Allow GRE in Place of LSAT

Postby grades?? » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:05 pm

alpinespring wrote:
Bach-City wrote:My initial reaction to this is extremely negative. It took me 2 practice tests to get a 168 on the GRE on the actual exam. The equivalent percentile on the LSAT took me 40 tests and I needed 20 more to get to the 175 that got me into Columbia.

I worry that this will devalue the LSAT, and increase the value of "softs" which I think will boil down to 1) Elite undergrad 2) URM status



1000000000000%

But at the same time.... as pure speculation, is there any chance Harvard's decision has to do with Trump's election?
They may genuinely be trying to open the doors to people from more economically diverse backgrounds? Or not...


My brother is a science phd student. He got a perfect gre score with 1 week of like flipping through some flashcards he downloaded for free on his phone (it was an app I think).

He might just apply next year for the lulz. He has no interest in ever attending law school, but figures why not considering his gre. This all leads me to conclude this is a f^*^ing joke by Harvard. The GRE requires significantly less work to do well.

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Re: Harvard to Allow GRE in Place of LSAT

Postby Ericwa » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Actually this may be good for reverse splitters who have super high GPAs, but bad at LSATs. They can take GRE and H will take high GPAs to boost the ranking....That's my speculation..

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Re: Harvard to Allow GRE in Place of LSAT

Postby Ericwa » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:10 pm

And honestly i do not understand why Harvard will allow GRE, because whoever applies with a GRE score apparently is not serious about law school and just apply for fun/game the system. I think H wants to boost ranking/increase selectiveness.

alpinespring

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Re: Harvard to Allow GRE in Place of LSAT

Postby alpinespring » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:18 pm

.
Last edited by alpinespring on Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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BillPackets

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Re: Harvard to Allow GRE in Place of LSAT

Postby BillPackets » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:18 pm

First it's the GRE, next the GMAT, MCAT, literature section only of the GRE...hey why not use the SAT/ACT??? Surely they can find the SAT scores of H grads and see how they correlate with success rates (spoiler: all standardized test scores of H admits are most likely going to be >95th percentile)

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Re: Harvard to Allow GRE in Place of LSAT

Postby grades?? » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:24 pm

alpinespring wrote:
grades?? wrote:
alpinespring wrote:
Bach-City wrote:My initial reaction to this is extremely negative. It took me 2 practice tests to get a 168 on the GRE on the actual exam. The equivalent percentile on the LSAT took me 40 tests and I needed 20 more to get to the 175 that got me into Columbia.

I worry that this will devalue the LSAT, and increase the value of "softs" which I think will boil down to 1) Elite undergrad 2) URM status



1000000000000%

But at the same time.... as pure speculation, is there any chance Harvard's decision has to do with Trump's election?
They may genuinely be trying to open the doors to people from more economically diverse backgrounds? Or not...


My brother is a science phd student. He got a perfect gre score with 1 week of like flipping through some flashcards he downloaded for free on his phone (it was an app I think).

He might just apply next year for the lulz. He has no interest in ever attending law school, but figures why not considering his gre. This all leads me to conclude this is a f^*^ing joke by Harvard. The GRE requires significantly less work to do well.



Yeah. I'm half-Chinese and I know there are like MILLIONS of high GRE-scorers in China, Hong Kong, South Korea, India, etc who would really welcome a J.D from Harvard. It will be interesting if apps from Asia spike like 10 times next year lol

I bet HLS will be seeing some Cold War-era softs... like... 3.8/99% GRE/ Section Leader of the local Chinese Communist Party


My opinion is this is clearly a ploy for an increase in application #'s so they can just reject them all and not slip past t-13. But seriously, get an extra 2000 apps, accept 10 of them as part of the pilot program.. that would help game the #s for the rankings. If this works, then every law school will immediately follow.

KPUSN07

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Re: Harvard to Allow GRE in Place of LSAT

Postby KPUSN07 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:26 pm

Makes me wonder.... scrap the LSAT and put full force in GRE?

alpinespring

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Re: Harvard to Allow GRE in Place of LSAT

Postby alpinespring » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:29 pm

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Last edited by alpinespring on Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Harvard to Allow GRE in Place of LSAT

Postby rpupkin » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:32 pm

alpinespring wrote:
Ericwa wrote:Actually this may be good for reverse splitters who have super high GPAs, but bad at LSATs. They can take GRE and H will take high GPAs to boost the ranking....That's my speculation..


+1.

One speculation is that they're trying to raise the UG quality of their students...

Who has speculated to that effect? I'm sure that's not what's going on here.

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NCGuy

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Re: Harvard to Allow GRE in Place of LSAT

Postby NCGuy » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:33 pm

To be fair, Harvard could just stop accepting all standardized test scores and the value of a Harvard degree wouldn't be any less. One of the few schools that could get away with this.
Last edited by NCGuy on Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

lawlorbust

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Re: Harvard to Allow GRE in Place of LSAT

Postby lawlorbust » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:35 pm

ITT: A bunch of posters MAF they applied to law school too early and had to settle for ~~~Columbia~~~.

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Re: Harvard to Allow GRE in Place of LSAT

Postby GOODWORKSTE » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:05 am

This is nonsense.

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URMSenator52

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Re: Harvard to Allow GRE in Place of LSAT

Postby URMSenator52 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:40 am

Is the LSAT and GRE weighed equally for law admission at HLS?

The GRE does not have a Logical Reasoning section,which is a skill significantly used in Law School imo (0L). Mainly for understanding arguments,precedents,statues and flaws.. I can see the GRE test being weighed at 98.5% percentile at median for admission to HLS. This could also mean more attrition rates at HLS too.. Very risky move in my speculating opinion,parallel with HLS dropping in 2019 USNR lol..

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Re: Harvard to Allow GRE in Place of LSAT

Postby AJordan » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:16 am

They're allowing an extra pool of applicants who aren't going to be competitive at other schools and, thus, far more willing to pay sticker at HLS. It'll work as long as other schools don't adopt the same policy. LSAC can't be happy.

edit: now that I have had some more time to think I think I align my thoughts with others above. GRE scores aren't reported for rankings (and it's not like Harvard is in danger of losing prestige anyway) and they likely will use the GRE to encourage more people from prestigious backgrounds (alumni/donor kids) and URM who may not have done as well on the LSAT. They give those folks another route to get in, which, okay. I see what they're doing.

I don't think this is necessarily good news for either splitters or reverse splitters. This is targeting individuals they want to take for whatever reason and not have them count to the stats beyond their uGPA. It doesn't help the masses of normies like us applying to HLS in pretty much any way.
Last edited by AJordan on Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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