2018 USNWR Rankings

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Hikikomorist

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Hikikomorist » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:17 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Whereas in my experience "JH med school is AWESOME but their UG is meh" just isn't really a thing, and Penn is an Ivy, so if we're looking at meaningless measures for prestige, it's up there. But again, it's all subjective. Different communities value different schools for different reasons. Water is wet.

I wouldn't say it got a meh reaction. It was probably viewed in the same light as Empty or NYU. People would think that you got into a nice school, but they wouldn't be overly impressed. People recognized the med school as being one of the best, though.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby somedeadman » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:18 pm

Easterbork wrote:Here are the REAL rankings

Stanford
Harvard
Virginia
New York University
Columbia
Chicago
University of Pennsylvania
Yale
Michigan
Berkeley
Duke
Source: http://www.lawcrossing.com/article/9000 ... oyability/


Huh; why no northwestern or Cornell?

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby LurkerTurnedMember » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:26 pm

I went to U of Chicago. When I applied to law schools, I was working-class, doing a blue collar job finishing college. All my family and friends were same, everyday people with no particular connection to "engineering," "law," "medicine," etc. The perception at the time on which schools were best for me to apply, irrespective of actual US news rankings (we weren't really aware of at the beginning) and after we realized I could get into the "good" schools instead of applying "local," was Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and Berkeley. MIT and Princeton were also thrown in but obviously didn't apply. When I applied and told people where I was applying, they would almost always single out Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and Berkeley. A few also were impressed by U of Chicago. I know this is hugely anecdotal, but I come from an "everyday" background if you will. And since going through law school, and meeting so many overly well off people, I can't stand when someone from a well off background who grew up through private schools, and knew everything law because they grew up expected and prepared to be some kind of professional, tries to, with a sense of "the world rotates around me," impute their very researched and unordinary understanding of the legal profession and schools to everyday people, like that guy above who, like those snobs we all met at one point, for some reason still cares about private versus public school distinction.

I'm not saying other schools aren't great. They are. I'm just saying if you asked everyday people to name the top engineering school, law school, medical school, or the like, people will go with their perception on the university as a whole because they don't have the same particular understanding of the specific professions we do now, especially law. So whichever one you ask (i.e., about law, medicine, etc.), you'll get answers like Harvard, Yale, MIT, Berkeley, Stanford, Princeton, etc. You won't get UVA, Michigan, NYU, Duke, Vandy, or the like because generally they don't have that specific national lay person reputation for academics. That doesn't mean they aren't good schools. They are. And that doesn't mean they also aren't well known for something. They are; I'm sure if I asked people to name the best basketball programs, Duke would pop up immediately. But when it comes to academics, for a long time it's been Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Yale, Berkeley, MIT, and a few others that dominate across the board in academics and the media. It has never been schools that are good at one particular thing, especially when that thing is non-academic, like Duke with basketball and as we here know law but no other high academic ranking in any other departments.

This of course varies from one part of the country to another, but generally on a national level, and international level, it holds true.
Last edited by LurkerTurnedMember on Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hikikomorist

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Hikikomorist » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:30 pm

Hey, I'm very much a man of the people (i.e., attended a public high school).

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:08 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:Hey, I'm very much a man of the people (i.e., attended a public high school).

Yes, that's exactly what being a man of the people means.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Moneytrees » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:18 pm

This has become one of the worst threads ever.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Hikikomorist » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:34 pm

Moneytrees wrote:This has become one of the worst threads ever.

Pretty sure there have been a dozen or so nearly identical threads.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:40 pm

LurkerTurnedMember wrote:I went to U of Chicago. When I applied to law schools, I was working-class, doing a blue collar job finishing college. All my family and friends were same, everyday people with no particular connection to "engineering," "law," "medicine," etc. The perception at the time on which schools were best for me to apply, irrespective of actual US news rankings (we weren't really aware of at the beginning) and after we realized I could get into the "good" schools instead of applying "local," was Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and Berkeley. MIT and Princeton were also thrown in but obviously didn't apply. When I applied and told people where I was applying, they would almost always single out Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and Berkeley. A few also were impressed by U of Chicago. I know this is hugely anecdotal, but I come from an "everyday" background if you will. And since going through law school, and meeting so many overly well off people, I can't stand when someone from a well off background who grew up through private schools, and knew everything law because they grew up expected and prepared to be some kind of professional, tries to, with a sense of "the world rotates around me," impute their very researched and unordinary understanding of the legal profession and schools to everyday people, like that guy above who, like those snobs we all met at one point, for some reason still cares about private versus public school distinction.

I'm not saying other schools aren't great. They are. I'm just saying if you asked everyday people to name the top engineering school, law school, medical school, or the like, people will go with their perception on the university as a whole because they don't have the same particular understanding of the specific professions we do now, especially law. So whichever one you ask (i.e., about law, medicine, etc.), you'll get answers like Harvard, Yale, MIT, Berkeley, Stanford, Princeton, etc. You won't get UVA, Michigan, NYU, Duke, Vandy, or the like because generally they don't have that specific national lay person reputation for academics. That doesn't mean they aren't good schools. They are. And that doesn't mean they also aren't well known for something. They are; I'm sure if I asked people to name the best basketball programs, Duke would pop up immediately. But when it comes to academics, for a long time it's been Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Yale, Berkeley, MIT, and a few others that dominate across the board in academics and the media. It has never been schools that are good at one particular thing, especially when that thing is non-academic, like Duke with basketball and as we here know law but no other high academic ranking in any other departments.

This of course varies from one part of the country to another, but generally on a national level, and international level, it holds true.


I agree with what you're saying but I think something that gets lost here - and I'm not just trying to make Duke happen - is that Duke, in the south, absolutely is know by "everyday people" for its academics. I don't know how we can say it holds nationally when half the nation disagrees.

It's the same bubble argument, who the fuck gets to decide who the "everyday" people are. Everyone has their income, geographic, and background biases. There is no objective that we can all agree on for the best known school.

It is probably good to remember not everybody spends their day researching law schools though

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Moneytrees » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:44 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:This has become one of the worst threads ever.

Pretty sure there have been a dozen or so nearly identical threads.


Yes, and all of the eventually devolve into senseless bickering because a school's lay prestige varies depending on the region. Northwestern and ND are huge in the Midwest, Cal is a household name in California, Duke is akin to Harvard to southerners, so on and so forth. There are maybe 4 or 5 schools that are universally recognizable.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby dabigchina » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:53 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:This has become one of the worst threads ever.

Pretty sure there have been a dozen or so nearly identical threads.

it feels like we have a lay prestige circle jerk every other week.

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rpupkin

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby rpupkin » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:56 pm

Moneytrees wrote:This has become one of the worst threads ever.

And it had so much promise, too. It's tragic that a thread about a magazine's ranking of law schools has turned into this.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby doritosMotorola » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:56 pm

LurkerTurnedMember wrote:I went to U of Chicago. When I applied to law schools, I was working-class, doing a blue collar job finishing college. All my family and friends were same, everyday people with no particular connection to "engineering," "law," "medicine," etc. The perception at the time on which schools were best for me to apply, irrespective of actual US news rankings (we weren't really aware of at the beginning) and after we realized I could get into the "good" schools instead of applying "local," was Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and Berkeley. MIT and Princeton were also thrown in but obviously didn't apply. When I applied and told people where I was applying, they would almost always single out Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and Berkeley. A few also were impressed by U of Chicago. I know this is hugely anecdotal, but I come from an "everyday" background if you will. And since going through law school, and meeting so many overly well off people, I can't stand when someone from a well off background who grew up through private schools, and knew everything law because they grew up expected and prepared to be some kind of professional, tries to, with a sense of "the world rotates around me," impute their very researched and unordinary understanding of the legal profession and schools to everyday people, like that guy above who, like those snobs we all met at one point, for some reason still cares about private versus public school distinction.


What ultimately led you to go to chicago, did you also get accepted into HYS?

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Hikikomorist » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:00 pm

dabigchina wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:This has become one of the worst threads ever.

Pretty sure there have been a dozen or so nearly identical threads.

it feels like we have a lay prestige circle jerk every other week.

Well, I try to encourage them whenever I can. TLS is truly the best environment I've found for these discussions.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Hikikomorist » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:02 pm

Moneytrees wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:This has become one of the worst threads ever.

Pretty sure there have been a dozen or so nearly identical threads.


Yes, and all of the eventually devolve into senseless bickering because a school's lay prestige varies depending on the region. Northwestern and ND are huge in the Midwest, Cal is a household name in California, Duke is akin to Harvard to southerners, so on and so forth. There are maybe 4 or 5 schools that are universally recognizable.

Regional biases exist, but I think they're somewhat overstated. I really don't think there are that many Californians who delude themselves into thinking Berkeley is better than Yale or some such ridiculous shit.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:07 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:This has become one of the worst threads ever.

Pretty sure there have been a dozen or so nearly identical threads.


Yes, and all of the eventually devolve into senseless bickering because a school's lay prestige varies depending on the region. Northwestern and ND are huge in the Midwest, Cal is a household name in California, Duke is akin to Harvard to southerners, so on and so forth. There are maybe 4 or 5 schools that are universally recognizable.

Regional biases exist, but I think they're somewhat overstated. I really don't think there are that many Californians who delude themselves into thinking Berkeley is better than Yale or some such ridiculous shit.

Nice straw man.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby guynourmin » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:12 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:This has become one of the worst threads ever.

Pretty sure there have been a dozen or so nearly identical threads.


Yes, and all of the eventually devolve into senseless bickering because a school's lay prestige varies depending on the region. Northwestern and ND are huge in the Midwest, Cal is a household name in California, Duke is akin to Harvard to southerners, so on and so forth. There are maybe 4 or 5 schools that are universally recognizable.

Regional biases exist, but I think they're somewhat overstated. I really don't think there are that many Californians who delude themselves into thinking Berkeley is better than Yale or some such ridiculous shit.


Right, but there are plenty of people who would say UNC is as good as Michigan or something more reasonable than your example, right?

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Moneytrees » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:13 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:This has become one of the worst threads ever.

Pretty sure there have been a dozen or so nearly identical threads.


Yes, and all of the eventually devolve into senseless bickering because a school's lay prestige varies depending on the region. Northwestern and ND are huge in the Midwest, Cal is a household name in California, Duke is akin to Harvard to southerners, so on and so forth. There are maybe 4 or 5 schools that are universally recognizable.

Regional biases exist, but I think they're somewhat overstated. I really don't think there are that many Californians who delude themselves into thinking Berkeley is better than Yale or some such ridiculous shit.

Nice straw man.


Nobody thinks that in California because Yale is one of the aforementioned, universally recognized schools. Duke probably is not.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby LurkerTurnedMember » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:14 pm

doritosMotorola wrote:
LurkerTurnedMember wrote:I went to U of Chicago. When I applied to law schools, I was working-class, doing a blue collar job finishing college. All my family and friends were same, everyday people with no particular connection to "engineering," "law," "medicine," etc. The perception at the time on which schools were best for me to apply, irrespective of actual US news rankings (we weren't really aware of at the beginning) and after we realized I could get into the "good" schools instead of applying "local," was Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and Berkeley. MIT and Princeton were also thrown in but obviously didn't apply. When I applied and told people where I was applying, they would almost always single out Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and Berkeley. A few also were impressed by U of Chicago. I know this is hugely anecdotal, but I come from an "everyday" background if you will. And since going through law school, and meeting so many overly well off people, I can't stand when someone from a well off background who grew up through private schools, and knew everything law because they grew up expected and prepared to be some kind of professional, tries to, with a sense of "the world rotates around me," impute their very researched and unordinary understanding of the legal profession and schools to everyday people, like that guy above who, like those snobs we all met at one point, for some reason still cares about private versus public school distinction.


What ultimately led you to go to chicago, did you also get accepted into HYS?


No. Unfortunately I got dinged at HYS and Berkeley (some waitlisted before dinging). I got into a few other schools and eventually chose Chicago given where it is, where I wanted to practice, and how good it is.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Hikikomorist » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:18 pm

guybourdin wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:This has become one of the worst threads ever.

Pretty sure there have been a dozen or so nearly identical threads.


Yes, and all of the eventually devolve into senseless bickering because a school's lay prestige varies depending on the region. Northwestern and ND are huge in the Midwest, Cal is a household name in California, Duke is akin to Harvard to southerners, so on and so forth. There are maybe 4 or 5 schools that are universally recognizable.

Regional biases exist, but I think they're somewhat overstated. I really don't think there are that many Californians who delude themselves into thinking Berkeley is better than Yale or some such ridiculous shit.


Right, but there are plenty of people who would say UNC is as good as Michigan or something more reasonable than your example, right?

Sure, but that goes back to my point about regional biases being fairly insignificant. The difference between UNC and Michigan is extremely minor, and it wouldn't be crazy to say that they're functionally equal.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby rpupkin » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:19 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:Regional biases exist, but I think they're somewhat overstated. I really don't think there are that many Californians who delude themselves into thinking Berkeley is better than Yale or some such ridiculous shit.

This is a weird schtick. Do you think lay people have a sophisticated understanding of the strengths of different programs at different schools, but then "delude themselves" due to regional biases?

The whole point is that lay folks in California don't know that Yale is some special palace of prestige. Throughout most of the country, folks know that Harvard is the best, and then things get hazy. It's due to (understandable) ignorance, not delusion.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby michlaw » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:23 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:
guybourdin wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:This has become one of the worst threads ever.

Pretty sure there have been a dozen or so nearly identical threads.


Yes, and all of the eventually devolve into senseless bickering because a school's lay prestige varies depending on the region. Northwestern and ND are huge in the Midwest, Cal is a household name in California, Duke is akin to Harvard to southerners, so on and so forth. There are maybe 4 or 5 schools that are universally recognizable.

Regional biases exist, but I think they're somewhat overstated. I really don't think there are that many Californians who delude themselves into thinking Berkeley is better than Yale or some such ridiculous shit.


Right, but there are plenty of people who would say UNC is as good as Michigan or something more reasonable than your example, right?

Sure, but that goes back to my point about regional biases being fairly insignificant. The difference between UNC and Michigan is extremely minor, and it wouldn't be crazy to say that they're functionally equal.


UNC is as good as Michigan ...in basketball. And even better in lacrosse. Football not so much. Other than that no one could reasonably compare UNC Law and Michigan Law.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Moneytrees » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:26 pm

michlaw wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
guybourdin wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:This has become one of the worst threads ever.

Pretty sure there have been a dozen or so nearly identical threads.


Yes, and all of the eventually devolve into senseless bickering because a school's lay prestige varies depending on the region. Northwestern and ND are huge in the Midwest, Cal is a household name in California, Duke is akin to Harvard to southerners, so on and so forth. There are maybe 4 or 5 schools that are universally recognizable.

Regional biases exist, but I think they're somewhat overstated. I really don't think there are that many Californians who delude themselves into thinking Berkeley is better than Yale or some such ridiculous shit.


Right, but there are plenty of people who would say UNC is as good as Michigan or something more reasonable than your example, right?

Sure, but that goes back to my point about regional biases being fairly insignificant. The difference between UNC and Michigan is extremely minor, and it wouldn't be crazy to say that they're functionally equal.


UNC is as good as Michigan ...in basketball. And even better in lacrosse. Football not so much. Other than that no one could reasonably compare UNC Law and Michigan Law.


Nobody is doing that God stop being so petty people.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby michlaw » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:29 pm

At first glance I thought you wanted me to stop being so pretty. It's not my fault. I just can't help it.

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UVA2B

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby UVA2B » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:47 pm

Who has conversations IRL about lay prestige with their friends this regularly? Especially "blue collar" types that know nothing about the institutions and couldn't care less? Am I a fundamentally bad conversationalist that I keep bringing up things more immediately relevant to our lives and friendship.

If I missed that boat, man I'm an asshole.

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Ferrisjso

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Ferrisjso » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:55 pm

I thought this thread was about rankings, not proving about how tiny of a bubble you're in. This isn't a typical year when the rankings are both meaningless and boring there's a lot to talk about. If you want to know what a layman's perception of academic prestige is, why don't you just go and find one, instead of talking about it with a club of largely T13 grads?



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