2018 USNWR Rankings

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Thomas Hagan, ESQ.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Thomas Hagan, ESQ. » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:05 pm

Kinch08 wrote:
TudoBem wrote:Do you want to get a high paying job @ V100?
Top 10 by % of graduates placed at the V100.

Source: National Law Journal - The TOP 10 - 2017


Rank Law school % OF 2016 GRADUATES AT THE LARGEST 100 FIRMS
1 Columbia Law School 57.07%
2 University of Chicago Law School 48.84%
3 Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law 47.58%
4 Cornell Law School 47.54%
5 New York University School of Law 47.42%
6 Duke Law School 45.50%
7 University of Virginia School of Law 44.85%
8 University of Pennsylvania Law School 43.80%
9 Harvard Law School 42.81%
10 Stanford Law School 39.34%

I am going for big law, so this is what I care about.

I really don't care if my friends/neighbors don't know about the law school i will attend. I want to attend a law school where most of the graduating class got a high paying job @ big law firms.


Those numbers are somewhat misleading, though. It isn't the percentage of students who could do biglaw if they wanted to; it's the percentage of students who choose to do biglaw. If your goal is a high paying job, YLS should definitely still be in your top 10--the fact that a bunch of your peers will go off to become professors and judges or run the ACLU or whatever doesn't affect your odds of landing biglaw.


+1

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:08 pm

This thread reminds me of the NY to 180 thread.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Veil of Ignorance » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:10 pm

Monday wrote:
Veil of Ignorance wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:Kind of unfair that LACs can't have lay prestige.


In some circles SWAP (Swarthmore, Williams, Amherst, Pomona) are very prestigious, on the same level at HYSP. I don't assume this is the case in most circle, though.

"SWAP"? It's like Georgetown trying to make T14 happen. Amherst has more lay recognition than Williams but to anyone that knows anything about LACs, Williams, Amherst, and Swarthmore are on their own. Since this is a USNWR thread: Pomona ranks 7.


I won't comment past here b/c we're on TLS, but at least where I'm from, among the types who read The Fiske Guide to Colleges, SWAP is real. USNWR ranks Pomona low, however my acquaintances who go there there tend to note that the Forbes ranking often puts it at #1 or #2. Go to Harvard if you want to impressive folks, though.

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BVest

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby BVest » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:11 pm

LawBuckeye12 wrote:Next year there needs to be a rankings release live stream done like the release of the College Football Playoff

ESPN would jump at it in a heartbeat, but they'd spend the bulk of the time on irrelevant mini-features about how good lawyers can come out of nowhere.
Last edited by BVest on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

cavalier1138

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:11 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:This thread reminds me of the NY to 180 thread.


Since you're around, can you set a filter that auto-corrects "GULC" to drop the "GU"? It's quite clear that it has lost the right to keep the "LC" on its name after this.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby goldenbear2020 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:11 pm

Kinch08 wrote:
TudoBem wrote:Do you want to get a high paying job @ V100?
Top 10 by % of graduates placed at the V100.

Source: National Law Journal - The TOP 10 - 2017


Rank Law school % OF 2016 GRADUATES AT THE LARGEST 100 FIRMS
1 Columbia Law School 57.07%
2 University of Chicago Law School 48.84%
3 Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law 47.58%
4 Cornell Law School 47.54%
5 New York University School of Law 47.42%
6 Duke Law School 45.50%
7 University of Virginia School of Law 44.85%
8 University of Pennsylvania Law School 43.80%
9 Harvard Law School 42.81%
10 Stanford Law School 39.34%

I am going for big law, so this is what I care about.

I really don't care if my friends/neighbors don't know about the law school i will attend. I want to attend a law school where most of the graduating class got a high paying job @ big law firms.


Those numbers are somewhat misleading, though. It isn't the percentage of students who could do biglaw if they wanted to; it's the percentage of students who choose to do biglaw. If your goal is a high paying job, YLS should definitely still be in your top 10--the fact that a bunch of your peers will go off to become professors and judges or run the ACLU or whatever doesn't affect your odds of landing biglaw.

If you divide these numbers by the BL% for each school, wouldn't that give a pretty good picture of "top tier BL" placement strength?

whysooseriousbiglaw

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby whysooseriousbiglaw » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:13 pm

goldenbear2020 wrote:
Kinch08 wrote:
TudoBem wrote:Do you want to get a high paying job @ V100?
Top 10 by % of graduates placed at the V100.

Source: National Law Journal - The TOP 10 - 2017


Rank Law school % OF 2016 GRADUATES AT THE LARGEST 100 FIRMS
1 Columbia Law School 57.07%
2 University of Chicago Law School 48.84%
3 Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law 47.58%
4 Cornell Law School 47.54%
5 New York University School of Law 47.42%
6 Duke Law School 45.50%
7 University of Virginia School of Law 44.85%
8 University of Pennsylvania Law School 43.80%
9 Harvard Law School 42.81%
10 Stanford Law School 39.34%

I am going for big law, so this is what I care about.

I really don't care if my friends/neighbors don't know about the law school i will attend. I want to attend a law school where most of the graduating class got a high paying job @ big law firms.


Those numbers are somewhat misleading, though. It isn't the percentage of students who could do biglaw if they wanted to; it's the percentage of students who choose to do biglaw. If your goal is a high paying job, YLS should definitely still be in your top 10--the fact that a bunch of your peers will go off to become professors and judges or run the ACLU or whatever doesn't affect your odds of landing biglaw.

If you divide these numbers by the BL% for each school, wouldn't that give a pretty good picture of "top tier BL" placement strength?


No, should be top 250 firms plus fed clerkships. V100 is a meaningless distinction.
Last edited by whysooseriousbiglaw on Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BVest

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby BVest » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:13 pm

Monday wrote:
Veil of Ignorance wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:Kind of unfair that LACs can't have lay prestige.


In some circles SWAP (Swarthmore, Williams, Amherst, Pomona) are very prestigious, on the same level at HYSP. I don't assume this is the case in most circle, though.

"SWAP"? It's like Georgetown trying to make T14 happen. Amherst has more lay recognition than Williams but to anyone that knows anything about LACs, Williams, Amherst, and Swarthmore are on their own. Since this is a USNWR thread: Pomona ranks 7.

Going in relative order, though, makes it very difficult to avoid using "WASP."
Last edited by BVest on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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cron1834

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby cron1834 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:14 pm

TudoBem is full of fail, just let him be.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:14 pm

But WASP would be so appropriate.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:14 pm

goldenbear2020 wrote:If you divide these numbers by the BL% for each school, wouldn't that give a pretty good picture of "top tier BL" placement strength?


Why do people keep confusing the relative size of biglaw firms with their perceived strength?

All firms (for the most part) pay the same scale. They all do basically the same work. Trying to parse biglaw job outcomes at a specific school is just pointless.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby goldenbear2020 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:14 pm

BVest wrote:
Monday wrote:
Veil of Ignorance wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:Kind of unfair that LACs can't have lay prestige.


In some circles SWAP (Swarthmore, Williams, Amherst, Pomona) are very prestigious, on the same level at HYSP. I don't assume this is the case in most circle, though.

"SWAP"? It's like Georgetown trying to make T14 happen. Amherst has more lay recognition than Williams but to anyone that knows anything about LACs, Williams, Amherst, and Swarthmore are on their own. Since this is a USNWR thread: Pomona ranks 7.

Going in relative order, though, makes it very difficult to avoid using "WASP."

+1. WASP is the clear pecking order among the top 4 LACs.

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Thomas Hagan, ESQ.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Thomas Hagan, ESQ. » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:17 pm

BVest wrote:
LawBuckeye12 wrote:Next year there needs to be a rankings release live stream done like the release of the College Football Playoff

ESPN would jump at it in a heartbeat, but they'd spend the bulk of the time on irrelevant mini-features about how good lawyers can come out of nowhere.


Jay Bilas' Best Sleeper Pick in this Year's USNWR Rankings:

People's College of Law

Strengths:
- Location in the heart of LA.
- Politically Far-Left School (almost Socialist) in a increasingly polarized society.
- Former Mayor of Los Angeles is an alumnus.
- Tremendous Volunteer/Social Justice Programs

Weakness:
- Unaccredited
- Everything else

Jalen Rose's Current T14 (or T13) Comparison:

University of California, Berkeley School of Law

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BVest

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby BVest » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:18 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:But WASP would be so appropriate.

Though perhaps a bit too appropriate for those actually associated with the schools.
Last edited by BVest on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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BoyJord

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby BoyJord » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:26 pm

BVest wrote:
LawBuckeye12 wrote:Next year there needs to be a rankings release live stream done like the release of the College Football Playoff

ESPN would jump at it in a heartbeat, but they'd spend the bulk of the time on irrelevant mini-features about how good lawyers can come out of nowhere.

+1

vcap180

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby vcap180 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:30 pm

It's odd how we all know that these rankings are meaningless, and yet we still care deeply about them. You can pretend like you don't care, but you do.

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Learned Throw Hands

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Learned Throw Hands » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:38 pm

vcap180 wrote:It's odd how we all know that these rankings are meaningless, and yet we still care deeply about them. You can pretend like you don't care, but you do.

From a consumer standpoint it's important that we shit on schools to deter them from letting certain standards decline but also realize that small fluctuations from year to year shouldn't really impact our decision in picking schools.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Moneytrees » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:42 pm

A couple years go TLS went crazy when Emory cracked the T20, this year ND did and cares lol.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby baseballfan660 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:46 pm

michlaw wrote:
baseballfan660 wrote:
michlaw wrote:Sports do bring money and money gives a school flexibility. Compare Michigan to NYU. Both schools started back in the early 1800's. Michigan's endowment is $9.7 billion while NYU's is $3.4 billion. A startling difference. Love em or hate em jock alums support their schools. Michigan's annual sports revenue is $160 million. The Ivy's started as a sports conference. Harvard endowment $37 billion Yale $25 billion.

Actually Michigan sports ran a 250 million dollar defecit this .edu/articles/athletics-presents-fiscal-year-2017-budget

" budget saw lower-than-budgeted spectator admissions in basketball and non-conference ice hockey contests as well as higher-than-budgeted costs in student financial aid and team and game expenses. Those items were offset partially by lower-than-expected facility expenses and other budget management initiatives."


Yahoo says otherwise http://sports.yahoo.com/video/michigan- ... 20973.html

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Moneytrees » Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:00 pm

RedPurpleBlue wrote:
TudoBem wrote:
Rigo wrote:I don't get how rinky dink iowa is T20.

same


Iowa has a 89.1% bar passage rate and only 5.5% of its students unemployed according to its ABA employment report. Meanwhile, Notre Dame, which it shares its ranking with, has a 84.5% bar passage rate and 12.3% of its students are unemployed. Iowa's better placement statistics probably make up for its lagging LSAT median (161) and median GPA (3.61). Also, two other stats probably help bridge the gap. First, Iowa's law library is huge (I want to say its only smaller than Harvard's in size of collection), which accounts for like 0.5% of the rankings. Second, Iowa's student faculty is 8.7:1 according to US News, which puts it at one of the smallest in the country.

This is like the 3rd post questioning Iowa's placement, and I have no clue why. It's pretty easy to explain.


Iowa is a solid regional school. It has no business being in the T20 tbh.

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TudoBem

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby TudoBem » Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:02 pm

cron1834 wrote:TudoBem is full of fail, just let him be.


Tks! :lol:

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Gitaroo_Dude » Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:06 pm

Thomas Hagan, ESQ. wrote:
BVest wrote:
LawBuckeye12 wrote:Next year there needs to be a rankings release live stream done like the release of the College Football Playoff

ESPN would jump at it in a heartbeat, but they'd spend the bulk of the time on irrelevant mini-features about how good lawyers can come out of nowhere.


Jay Bilas' Best Sleeper Pick in this Year's USNWR Rankings:

People's College of Law

Strengths:
- Location in the heart of LA.
- Politically Far-Left School (almost Socialist) in a increasingly polarized society.
- Former Mayor of Los Angeles is an alumnus.
- Tremendous Volunteer/Social Justice Programs

Weakness:
- Unaccredited
- Everything else

Jalen Rose's Current T14 (or T13) Comparison:

University of California, Berkeley School of Law


This is good.

michlaw

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby michlaw » Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:12 pm

baseballfan660 wrote:
michlaw wrote:
baseballfan660 wrote:
michlaw wrote:Sports do bring money and money gives a school flexibility. Compare Michigan to NYU. Both schools started back in the early 1800's. Michigan's endowment is $9.7 billion while NYU's is $3.4 billion. A startling difference. Love em or hate em jock alums support their schools. Michigan's annual sports revenue is $160 million. The Ivy's started as a sports conference. Harvard endowment $37 billion Yale $25 billion.

Actually Michigan sports ran a 250 million dollar defecit this .edu/articles/athletics-presents-fiscal-year-2017-budget

" budget saw lower-than-budgeted spectator admissions in basketball and non-conference ice hockey contests as well as higher-than-budgeted costs in student financial aid and team and game expenses. Those items were offset partially by lower-than-expected facility expenses and other budget management initiatives."


Yahoo says otherwise http://sports.yahoo.com/video/michigan- ... 20973.html


As we all know lawyers can't do numbers (if we could we would have gone to business school). The USA is 20 trillion dollars in debt and and if you count unfunded liabilities about 100 trillion dollars in debt. That doesn't mean than the budget of the US shows those liabilities annually. The assumption/accounting looks at the US GDP of 17 trillion dollars and believes that the debt is manageable/acceptable. In fact during the last 8 years the debt has doubled and people view that as just fine. Michigan has debt on it's athletic facilities. That is not at all the same as their program last year lost 250 million dollars.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Hikikomorist » Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:21 pm

ashrice13 wrote:Real question: Does NYU really not have a lot of lay prestige outside of the Northeast? In the northeast it has a ton of it (at least im my experience).

Always seemed like it was on the level (and East Coast equivalent) of USC.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Hikikomorist » Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:26 pm

Monday wrote:
Veil of Ignorance wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:Kind of unfair that LACs can't have lay prestige.


In some circles SWAP (Swarthmore, Williams, Amherst, Pomona) are very prestigious, on the same level at HYSP. I don't assume this is the case in most circle, though.

"SWAP"? It's like Georgetown trying to make T14 happen. Amherst has more lay recognition than Williams but to anyone that knows anything about LACs, Williams, Amherst, and Swarthmore are on their own. Since this is a USNWR thread: Pomona ranks 7.

Ranking of tier 1 LAC acronyms:
PAWS
WASP
SWAP

Not that it matters, though, because LACs have no lay prestige.



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