2018 USNWR Rankings

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whysooseriousbiglaw

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby whysooseriousbiglaw » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:04 pm

wiz wrote:Also, look at med school acceptance rates: https://www.usnews.com/education/best-g ... ance-rates


Lots of dumbs apply to both med and law school...acceptance rates alone don't tell the whole story.

whysooseriousbiglaw

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby whysooseriousbiglaw » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:07 pm

whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:Also, look at med school acceptance rates: https://www.usnews.com/education/best-g ... ance-rates


Lots of dumbs apply to both med and law school...acceptance rates alone don't tell the whole story.


Also LOL @ FSU and Wake Forest having similar acceptance rates as Stanford and Mayo when the matriculant stats at Stanford and Mayo are way, way, way, better. The former are just average med schools with average matriculant stats whereas Stanford/Mayo are leagues above them. Obviously acceptance rates on their own don't really mean anything.

A lot of Southern schools are less competitive to get into and people with lower stats apply there....which might explain the acceptance rates.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby wiz » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:08 pm

whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
Any random med school program is not nearly as hard as people think to get in......case in point. As a non-URM, get an 80th percentile MCAT score and a non-shitty GPA and you have good odds to get in somewhere. Not all med schools are created equal.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321520/da ... ea24-5.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/da ... ea24-4.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321516/da ... ea24-3.pdf

That's a hell of a lot harder than law school.

You have an 18% chance of getting accepted into any med school if you have an average MCAT (22% chance if you have an average MCAT and 3.6+ GPA).

19% of applicants get shut out completely with a 97th+ percentile MCAT, 27% get shut out with a 91st+ percentile MCAT, and it's basically a 50/50 chance of getting into med school at the 80th percentile.

Getting shut out of law school completely with a 170 (97th percentile) is unheard of.


Who the hell attends non T-13 law schools these days? I thought the discussion was top law schools versus med school?

No offense, but I bet a person who can score a high enough LSAT on average to get into a T-13 can do well enough to get into multiple MD programs. Just do a "hand out As like candy" post-bac and you're set.

Like 85% of law school applicants?

The point was that you can't compare a T13 to a similar top X med school. You're comparing getting into any random med school to a T13 law school.

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wiz

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby wiz » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:10 pm

whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:Also, look at med school acceptance rates: https://www.usnews.com/education/best-g ... ance-rates


Lots of dumbs apply to both med and law school...acceptance rates alone don't tell the whole story.


Also LOL @ FSU and Wake Forest having similar acceptance rates as Stanford and Mayo when the matriculant stats at Stanford and Mayo are way, way, way, better. The former are just average med schools with average matriculant stats whereas Stanford/Mayo are leagues above them. Obviously acceptance rates on their own don't really mean anything.

A lot of Southern schools are less competitive to get into and people with lower stats apply there....which might explain the acceptance rates.

Nobody would argue those are the best schools. But if you go down the rankings, med schools are way harder to get into than comparably ranked law schools.

Unless you're comparing YLS to Harvard Med or something. Even HLS is a shitload easier (just do 3.9 in underwater basket weaving + 173 LSAT) than Harvard Med due to class size.
Last edited by wiz on Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

whysooseriousbiglaw

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby whysooseriousbiglaw » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:10 pm

wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
Any random med school program is not nearly as hard as people think to get in......case in point. As a non-URM, get an 80th percentile MCAT score and a non-shitty GPA and you have good odds to get in somewhere. Not all med schools are created equal.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321520/da ... ea24-5.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/da ... ea24-4.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321516/da ... ea24-3.pdf

That's a hell of a lot harder than law school.

You have an 18% chance of getting accepted into any med school if you have an average MCAT (22% chance if you have an average MCAT and 3.6+ GPA).

19% of applicants get shut out completely with a 97th+ percentile MCAT, 27% get shut out with a 91st+ percentile MCAT, and it's basically a 50/50 chance of getting into med school at the 80th percentile.

Getting shut out of law school completely with a 170 (97th percentile) is unheard of.


Who the hell attends non T-13 law schools these days? I thought the discussion was top law schools versus med school?

No offense, but I bet a person who can score a high enough LSAT on average to get into a T-13 can do well enough to get into multiple MD programs. Just do a "hand out As like candy" post-bac and you're set.

Like 85% of law school applicants?

The point was that you can't compare a T13 to a similar top X med school. You're comparing getting into any random med school to a T13 law school.


I think it's probably more accurate to compare the top 13 law schools to the top 20-25 MD programs...

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby wiz » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:12 pm

whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
Any random med school program is not nearly as hard as people think to get in......case in point. As a non-URM, get an 80th percentile MCAT score and a non-shitty GPA and you have good odds to get in somewhere. Not all med schools are created equal.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321520/da ... ea24-5.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/da ... ea24-4.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321516/da ... ea24-3.pdf

That's a hell of a lot harder than law school.

You have an 18% chance of getting accepted into any med school if you have an average MCAT (22% chance if you have an average MCAT and 3.6+ GPA).

19% of applicants get shut out completely with a 97th+ percentile MCAT, 27% get shut out with a 91st+ percentile MCAT, and it's basically a 50/50 chance of getting into med school at the 80th percentile.

Getting shut out of law school completely with a 170 (97th percentile) is unheard of.


Who the hell attends non T-13 law schools these days? I thought the discussion was top law schools versus med school?

No offense, but I bet a person who can score a high enough LSAT on average to get into a T-13 can do well enough to get into multiple MD programs. Just do a "hand out As like candy" post-bac and you're set.

Like 85% of law school applicants?

The point was that you can't compare a T13 to a similar top X med school. You're comparing getting into any random med school to a T13 law school.


I think it's probably more accurate to compare the top 13 law schools to the top 20-25 MD programs...

Cornell, Baylor Med, Mount Sinai, etc. are a fuckload harder to get into than, like, Northwestern or UVA, which would take your run-of-the-mill splitter bro.

Way harder to come back from a shit sGPA.

whysooseriousbiglaw

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby whysooseriousbiglaw » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:12 pm

wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:Also, look at med school acceptance rates: https://www.usnews.com/education/best-g ... ance-rates


Lots of dumbs apply to both med and law school...acceptance rates alone don't tell the whole story.


Also LOL @ FSU and Wake Forest having similar acceptance rates as Stanford and Mayo when the matriculant stats at Stanford and Mayo are way, way, way, better. The former are just average med schools with average matriculant stats whereas Stanford/Mayo are leagues above them. Obviously acceptance rates on their own don't really mean anything.

A lot of Southern schools are less competitive to get into and people with lower stats apply there....which might explain the acceptance rates.

Nobody would argue those are the best schools. But if you go down the rankings, med schools are way harder to get into than comparably ranked law schools.

Unless you're comparing YLS to Harvard Med or something. Even HLS is a shitload easier (just do 3.9 in underwater basket weaving + 173 LSAT) than Harvard Med due to class size.


I don't doubt that med school in general is harder to get into than law school. However, getting into ANY MD program is not that hard unless you are completely retarded.

whysooseriousbiglaw

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby whysooseriousbiglaw » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:14 pm

wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
Any random med school program is not nearly as hard as people think to get in......case in point. As a non-URM, get an 80th percentile MCAT score and a non-shitty GPA and you have good odds to get in somewhere. Not all med schools are created equal.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321520/da ... ea24-5.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/da ... ea24-4.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321516/da ... ea24-3.pdf

That's a hell of a lot harder than law school.

You have an 18% chance of getting accepted into any med school if you have an average MCAT (22% chance if you have an average MCAT and 3.6+ GPA).

19% of applicants get shut out completely with a 97th+ percentile MCAT, 27% get shut out with a 91st+ percentile MCAT, and it's basically a 50/50 chance of getting into med school at the 80th percentile.

Getting shut out of law school completely with a 170 (97th percentile) is unheard of.


Who the hell attends non T-13 law schools these days? I thought the discussion was top law schools versus med school?

No offense, but I bet a person who can score a high enough LSAT on average to get into a T-13 can do well enough to get into multiple MD programs. Just do a "hand out As like candy" post-bac and you're set.

Like 85% of law school applicants?

The point was that you can't compare a T13 to a similar top X med school. You're comparing getting into any random med school to a T13 law school.


I think it's probably more accurate to compare the top 13 law schools to the top 20-25 MD programs...

Cornell, Baylor Med, Mount Sinai, etc. are a fuckload harder to get into than, like, Northwestern or UVA, which would take your run-of-the-mill splitter bro.

Way harder to come back from a shit sGPA.


Fair. Then pick whatever random top 20-25 schools you think are comparable and compare....once you get to the middle of the pack MD programs, it seems like they have mediocre matriculant stats.

Also, again, just do a post bac to save that GPA....free 4.0s for everyone.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby UVA2B » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:18 pm

whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
Any random med school program is not nearly as hard as people think to get in......case in point. As a non-URM, get an 80th percentile MCAT score and a non-shitty GPA and you have good odds to get in somewhere. Not all med schools are created equal.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321520/da ... ea24-5.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/da ... ea24-4.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321516/da ... ea24-3.pdf

That's a hell of a lot harder than law school.

You have an 18% chance of getting accepted into any med school if you have an average MCAT (22% chance if you have an average MCAT and 3.6+ GPA).

19% of applicants get shut out completely with a 97th+ percentile MCAT, 27% get shut out with a 91st+ percentile MCAT, and it's basically a 50/50 chance of getting into med school at the 80th percentile.

Getting shut out of law school completely with a 170 (97th percentile) is unheard of.


Who the hell attends non T-13 law schools these days? I thought the discussion was top law schools versus med school?

No offense, but I bet a person who can score a high enough LSAT on average to get into a T-13 can do well enough to get into multiple MD programs. Just do a "hand out As like candy" post-bac and you're set.

Like 85% of law school applicants?

The point was that you can't compare a T13 to a similar top X med school. You're comparing getting into any random med school to a T13 law school.


I think it's probably more accurate to compare the top 13 law schools to the top 20-25 MD programs...


This entire discussion about getting into med school is stupid because MD programs aren't prestige-obsessed like law schools are. Outside of maybe research and cutting edge areas of medicine (and even this I'm skeptical of), go to any MD program, do reasonably well in it and kill the board exams and you can get any type of residency specialty you want. Remember that something like 95% of MDs match in their desired field, which provided they complete that training, are all but guaranteed high paying and relevant work afterward. Getting into med school is the biggest hurdle to a relatively assured outcome. MD students are not going in wanting to do neurosurgery and getting pigeonholed into family medicine in the middle of nowhere. That neurosurgeon might end up settling for general surgery because they didn't quite do well enough on step 1 of the board exams, but that's nothing like the disparity between Biglaw and small firm work. Even the average family practice MD is making low six figures.

It's an entirely different profession with entirely different market dynamics. Comparing med schools to law schools is apples to oranges.

whysooseriousbiglaw

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby whysooseriousbiglaw » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:21 pm

UVA2B wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
Any random med school program is not nearly as hard as people think to get in......case in point. As a non-URM, get an 80th percentile MCAT score and a non-shitty GPA and you have good odds to get in somewhere. Not all med schools are created equal.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321520/da ... ea24-5.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/da ... ea24-4.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321516/da ... ea24-3.pdf

That's a hell of a lot harder than law school.

You have an 18% chance of getting accepted into any med school if you have an average MCAT (22% chance if you have an average MCAT and 3.6+ GPA).

19% of applicants get shut out completely with a 97th+ percentile MCAT, 27% get shut out with a 91st+ percentile MCAT, and it's basically a 50/50 chance of getting into med school at the 80th percentile.

Getting shut out of law school completely with a 170 (97th percentile) is unheard of.


Who the hell attends non T-13 law schools these days? I thought the discussion was top law schools versus med school?

No offense, but I bet a person who can score a high enough LSAT on average to get into a T-13 can do well enough to get into multiple MD programs. Just do a "hand out As like candy" post-bac and you're set.

Like 85% of law school applicants?

The point was that you can't compare a T13 to a similar top X med school. You're comparing getting into any random med school to a T13 law school.


I think it's probably more accurate to compare the top 13 law schools to the top 20-25 MD programs...


This entire discussion about getting into med school is stupid because MD programs aren't prestige-obsessed like law schools are. Outside of maybe research and cutting edge areas of medicine (and even this I'm skeptical of), go to any MD program, do reasonably well in it and kill the board exams and you can get any type of residency specialty you want. Remember that something like 95% of MDs match in their desired field, which provided they complete that training, are all but guaranteed high paying and relevant work afterward. Getting into med school is the biggest hurdle to a relatively assured outcome. MD students are not going in wanting to do neurosurgery and getting pigeonholed into family medicine in the middle of nowhere. That neurosurgeon might end up settling for general surgery because they didn't quite do well enough on step 1 of the board exams, but that's nothing like the disparity between Biglaw and small firm work. Even the average family practice MD is making low six figures.

It's an entirely different profession with entirely different market dynamics. Comparing med schools to law schools is apples to oranges.


Right, but in terms of prestige and caliber of students, there's a HUGE gap between Wake Forest/FSU and John Hopkins/Harvard/Stanford. And I'm sure going to JHU will help at least some bit with residencies.

Also, if MDs do not do well enough on the Step 1, they might not get neurosurgery and get stuck with family med...don't most MDs end up going into family med/IM/psych/peds?

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby wiz » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:22 pm

UVA2B wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
Any random med school program is not nearly as hard as people think to get in......case in point. As a non-URM, get an 80th percentile MCAT score and a non-shitty GPA and you have good odds to get in somewhere. Not all med schools are created equal.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321520/da ... ea24-5.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/da ... ea24-4.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321516/da ... ea24-3.pdf

That's a hell of a lot harder than law school.

You have an 18% chance of getting accepted into any med school if you have an average MCAT (22% chance if you have an average MCAT and 3.6+ GPA).

19% of applicants get shut out completely with a 97th+ percentile MCAT, 27% get shut out with a 91st+ percentile MCAT, and it's basically a 50/50 chance of getting into med school at the 80th percentile.

Getting shut out of law school completely with a 170 (97th percentile) is unheard of.


Who the hell attends non T-13 law schools these days? I thought the discussion was top law schools versus med school?

No offense, but I bet a person who can score a high enough LSAT on average to get into a T-13 can do well enough to get into multiple MD programs. Just do a "hand out As like candy" post-bac and you're set.

Like 85% of law school applicants?

The point was that you can't compare a T13 to a similar top X med school. You're comparing getting into any random med school to a T13 law school.


I think it's probably more accurate to compare the top 13 law schools to the top 20-25 MD programs...


This entire discussion about getting into med school is stupid because MD programs aren't prestige-obsessed like law schools are. Outside of maybe research and cutting edge areas of medicine (and even this I'm skeptical of), go to any MD program, do reasonably well in it and kill the board exams and you can get any type of residency specialty you want. Remember that something like 95% of MDs match in their desired field, which provided they complete that training, are all but guaranteed high paying and relevant work afterward. Getting into med school is the biggest hurdle to a relatively assured outcome. MD students are not going in wanting to do neurosurgery and getting pigeonholed into family medicine in the middle of nowhere. That neurosurgeon might end up settling for general surgery because they didn't quite do well enough on step 1 of the board exams, but that's nothing like the disparity between Biglaw and small firm work. Even the average family practice MD is making low six figures.

It's an entirely different profession with entirely different market dynamics. Comparing med schools to law schools is apples to oranges.

This is more or less what I've been saying with respect to the culling being done pre-med school rather than during OCI for law. And how you can't compare getting into med school to getting into law school because the prestige bands don't work the same way.

The T13/M7 doesn't exist for med schools, and you can go very low down the rankings list and still have a strong probability of having a good outcome (which is not the case for law school).

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby whysooseriousbiglaw » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:23 pm

wiz wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
Any random med school program is not nearly as hard as people think to get in......case in point. As a non-URM, get an 80th percentile MCAT score and a non-shitty GPA and you have good odds to get in somewhere. Not all med schools are created equal.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321520/da ... ea24-5.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/da ... ea24-4.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321516/da ... ea24-3.pdf

That's a hell of a lot harder than law school.

You have an 18% chance of getting accepted into any med school if you have an average MCAT (22% chance if you have an average MCAT and 3.6+ GPA).

19% of applicants get shut out completely with a 97th+ percentile MCAT, 27% get shut out with a 91st+ percentile MCAT, and it's basically a 50/50 chance of getting into med school at the 80th percentile.

Getting shut out of law school completely with a 170 (97th percentile) is unheard of.


Who the hell attends non T-13 law schools these days? I thought the discussion was top law schools versus med school?

No offense, but I bet a person who can score a high enough LSAT on average to get into a T-13 can do well enough to get into multiple MD programs. Just do a "hand out As like candy" post-bac and you're set.

Like 85% of law school applicants?

The point was that you can't compare a T13 to a similar top X med school. You're comparing getting into any random med school to a T13 law school.


I think it's probably more accurate to compare the top 13 law schools to the top 20-25 MD programs...


This entire discussion about getting into med school is stupid because MD programs aren't prestige-obsessed like law schools are. Outside of maybe research and cutting edge areas of medicine (and even this I'm skeptical of), go to any MD program, do reasonably well in it and kill the board exams and you can get any type of residency specialty you want. Remember that something like 95% of MDs match in their desired field, which provided they complete that training, are all but guaranteed high paying and relevant work afterward. Getting into med school is the biggest hurdle to a relatively assured outcome. MD students are not going in wanting to do neurosurgery and getting pigeonholed into family medicine in the middle of nowhere. That neurosurgeon might end up settling for general surgery because they didn't quite do well enough on step 1 of the board exams, but that's nothing like the disparity between Biglaw and small firm work. Even the average family practice MD is making low six figures.

It's an entirely different profession with entirely different market dynamics. Comparing med schools to law schools is apples to oranges.

This is more or less what I've been saying with respect to the culling being done pre-med school rather than during OCI for law. And how you can't compare getting into med school to getting into law school because the prestige bands don't work the same way.

The T13/M7 doesn't exist for med schools, and you can go very low down the rankings list and still have a strong probability of having a good outcome (which is not the case for law school).


I think they were talking about it in the context of prestige/caliber of students as well.

Even DOs have decent job prospects (if you count urgent care centers and rural family med decent)....

Frankly, I'd rather be a janitor than a family med practitioner these days --- high quotas, too little time with patients, too much paperwork, decreasing reimbursements, etc. It's becoming more and more impossible to open up your own shop - you have to work for a hospital or some shit, meeting quotas and doing shitloads of paperwork and having no quality time with patients. Plus you can't even give meaningful advice - just doll out prescriptions like candy. Plus the pay isn't even that good for the opportunity cost. Compare that with working as a cop or teacher with pension? There's no comparison. I think the teacher (and most definitely, cop) with a pension would actually win out financially over the family med physician.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby wiz » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:27 pm

whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
Any random med school program is not nearly as hard as people think to get in......case in point. As a non-URM, get an 80th percentile MCAT score and a non-shitty GPA and you have good odds to get in somewhere. Not all med schools are created equal.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321520/da ... ea24-5.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/da ... ea24-4.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321516/da ... ea24-3.pdf

That's a hell of a lot harder than law school.

You have an 18% chance of getting accepted into any med school if you have an average MCAT (22% chance if you have an average MCAT and 3.6+ GPA).

19% of applicants get shut out completely with a 97th+ percentile MCAT, 27% get shut out with a 91st+ percentile MCAT, and it's basically a 50/50 chance of getting into med school at the 80th percentile.

Getting shut out of law school completely with a 170 (97th percentile) is unheard of.


Who the hell attends non T-13 law schools these days? I thought the discussion was top law schools versus med school?

No offense, but I bet a person who can score a high enough LSAT on average to get into a T-13 can do well enough to get into multiple MD programs. Just do a "hand out As like candy" post-bac and you're set.

Like 85% of law school applicants?

The point was that you can't compare a T13 to a similar top X med school. You're comparing getting into any random med school to a T13 law school.


I think it's probably more accurate to compare the top 13 law schools to the top 20-25 MD programs...


This entire discussion about getting into med school is stupid because MD programs aren't prestige-obsessed like law schools are. Outside of maybe research and cutting edge areas of medicine (and even this I'm skeptical of), go to any MD program, do reasonably well in it and kill the board exams and you can get any type of residency specialty you want. Remember that something like 95% of MDs match in their desired field, which provided they complete that training, are all but guaranteed high paying and relevant work afterward. Getting into med school is the biggest hurdle to a relatively assured outcome. MD students are not going in wanting to do neurosurgery and getting pigeonholed into family medicine in the middle of nowhere. That neurosurgeon might end up settling for general surgery because they didn't quite do well enough on step 1 of the board exams, but that's nothing like the disparity between Biglaw and small firm work. Even the average family practice MD is making low six figures.

It's an entirely different profession with entirely different market dynamics. Comparing med schools to law schools is apples to oranges.


Right, but in terms of prestige and caliber of students, there's a HUGE gap between Wake Forest/FSU and John Hopkins/Harvard/Stanford. And I'm sure going to JHU will help at least some bit with residencies.

Also, if MDs do not do well enough on the Step 1, they might not get neurosurgery and get stuck with family med...don't most MDs end up going into family med/IM/psych/peds?

It does help with residencies, and there are obviously way more resident positions available for the lower-tier specialities than neuro/cardio. Obviously no disagreement that Harvard/Stanford/Hopkins med students are in a completely different league than students at an average med school.

But land basically any speciality and you're looking at $300k on average. Do orthopedics, cardiology, anesthesiology, or neuro, and you bank.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby UVA2B » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:29 pm

whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
Any random med school program is not nearly as hard as people think to get in......case in point. As a non-URM, get an 80th percentile MCAT score and a non-shitty GPA and you have good odds to get in somewhere. Not all med schools are created equal.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321520/da ... ea24-5.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/da ... ea24-4.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321516/da ... ea24-3.pdf

That's a hell of a lot harder than law school.

You have an 18% chance of getting accepted into any med school if you have an average MCAT (22% chance if you have an average MCAT and 3.6+ GPA).

19% of applicants get shut out completely with a 97th+ percentile MCAT, 27% get shut out with a 91st+ percentile MCAT, and it's basically a 50/50 chance of getting into med school at the 80th percentile.

Getting shut out of law school completely with a 170 (97th percentile) is unheard of.


Who the hell attends non T-13 law schools these days? I thought the discussion was top law schools versus med school?

No offense, but I bet a person who can score a high enough LSAT on average to get into a T-13 can do well enough to get into multiple MD programs. Just do a "hand out As like candy" post-bac and you're set.

Like 85% of law school applicants?

The point was that you can't compare a T13 to a similar top X med school. You're comparing getting into any random med school to a T13 law school.


I think it's probably more accurate to compare the top 13 law schools to the top 20-25 MD programs...


This entire discussion about getting into med school is stupid because MD programs aren't prestige-obsessed like law schools are. Outside of maybe research and cutting edge areas of medicine (and even this I'm skeptical of), go to any MD program, do reasonably well in it and kill the board exams and you can get any type of residency specialty you want. Remember that something like 95% of MDs match in their desired field, which provided they complete that training, are all but guaranteed high paying and relevant work afterward. Getting into med school is the biggest hurdle to a relatively assured outcome. MD students are not going in wanting to do neurosurgery and getting pigeonholed into family medicine in the middle of nowhere. That neurosurgeon might end up settling for general surgery because they didn't quite do well enough on step 1 of the board exams, but that's nothing like the disparity between Biglaw and small firm work. Even the average family practice MD is making low six figures.

It's an entirely different profession with entirely different market dynamics. Comparing med schools to law schools is apples to oranges.


Right, but in terms of prestige and caliber of students, there's a HUGE gap between Wake Forest/FSU and John Hopkins/Harvard/Stanford. And I'm sure going to JHU will help at least some bit with residencies.

Also, if MDs do not do well enough on the Step 1, they might not get neurosurgery and get stuck with family med...don't most MDs end up going into family med/IM/psych/peds?


That's out of self-selection mostly (several family members recently graduated from med school, have spoken to them about the whole match process at length). Many MDs are truly interested in just helping people and developing a connection with their patients. It's not because they couldn't do something else. One family member showed me the average Step 1 scores for the different specialties, and the bar isn't set that high to get into things like general surgery, Emergency Medicine, etc., which make upwards of $200k minimum immediately following residency (and possibly fellowship if they want to specialize further). The most competitive, and therefore highest step 1 scores, are in things with very few residency programs nationally like Derm, ENT, and a few highly specialized like neurosurgery, plastics, and orthopedic surgery.

Again, completely different profession with people having mostly different goals. Most MDs I've spoken to on the issue know what the compensation will be like in their specialty and are comfortable with it because it's what they want to do.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby whysooseriousbiglaw » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:32 pm

wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
Right, but in terms of prestige and caliber of students, there's a HUGE gap between Wake Forest/FSU and John Hopkins/Harvard/Stanford. And I'm sure going to JHU will help at least some bit with residencies.

Also, if MDs do not do well enough on the Step 1, they might not get neurosurgery and get stuck with family med...don't most MDs end up going into family med/IM/psych/peds?

It does help with residencies. And there are obviously way more resident positions available for the lower-tier specialities than neuro/cardio.

But land basically any speciality and you're looking at $300k on average. Do orthopedics, cardiology, anesthesiology, or neuro, and you bank.


At least for anesthesiology, CRNAs are replacing them for like 150k-200k salaries or whatever, instead of paying doctors 300k. Now one doc is supervising like 4-5 nurses instead of hiring 4-5 doctors. Everyone and their mother has to go into a fellowship just to supposedly stay competitive (and who knows how long it will take for nurses to start replacing anesthesiologists in more specialized shit).

For radiology, they are outsourcing that work to India.

Nurses are also making more headway into other areas and of course PAs have already replaced a lot of ER docs and gone into other fields.

If you want to get rich, and you're paying for school on your own, don't go to professional school. It's way too costly, and the opportunity cost is way too high. Plus, there's a shitload of uncertainty in the medical field right now.

Instead, go become a programmer and make like 200k straight out of college at 22 or go work in finance.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Hikikomorist » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:34 pm

whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
Who the hell attends non T-13 law schools these days? I thought the discussion was top law schools versus med school?

No offense, but I bet a person who can score a high enough LSAT on average to get into a T-13 can do well enough to get into multiple MD programs. Just do a "hand out As like candy" post-bac and you're set.

Like 85% of law school applicants?

The point was that you can't compare a T13 to a similar top X med school. You're comparing getting into any random med school to a T13 law school.


I think it's probably more accurate to compare the top 13 law schools to the top 20-25 MD programs...


This entire discussion about getting into med school is stupid because MD programs aren't prestige-obsessed like law schools are. Outside of maybe research and cutting edge areas of medicine (and even this I'm skeptical of), go to any MD program, do reasonably well in it and kill the board exams and you can get any type of residency specialty you want. Remember that something like 95% of MDs match in their desired field, which provided they complete that training, are all but guaranteed high paying and relevant work afterward. Getting into med school is the biggest hurdle to a relatively assured outcome. MD students are not going in wanting to do neurosurgery and getting pigeonholed into family medicine in the middle of nowhere. That neurosurgeon might end up settling for general surgery because they didn't quite do well enough on step 1 of the board exams, but that's nothing like the disparity between Biglaw and small firm work. Even the average family practice MD is making low six figures.

It's an entirely different profession with entirely different market dynamics. Comparing med schools to law schools is apples to oranges.

This is more or less what I've been saying with respect to the culling being done pre-med school rather than during OCI for law. And how you can't compare getting into med school to getting into law school because the prestige bands don't work the same way.

The T13/M7 doesn't exist for med schools, and you can go very low down the rankings list and still have a strong probability of having a good outcome (which is not the case for law school).


I think they were talking about it in the context of prestige/caliber of students as well.

Even DOs have decent job prospects (if you count urgent care centers and rural family med decent)....

Frankly, I'd rather be a janitor than a family med practitioner these days --- high quotas, too little time with patients, too much paperwork, decreasing reimbursements, etc. It's becoming more and more impossible to open up your own shop - you have to work for a hospital or some shit, meeting quotas and doing shitloads of paperwork and having no quality time with patients. Plus you can't even give meaningful advice - just doll out prescriptions like candy. Plus the pay isn't even that good for the opportunity cost. Compare that with working as a cop or teacher with pension? There's no comparison. I think the teacher (and most definitely, cop) with a pension would actually win out financially over the family med physician.

Okay, now you're being ridiculous.

And, yes, I think there's a disconnect between employment outcomes across medical schools versus law schools and prestige/student quality across the same.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby whysooseriousbiglaw » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:37 pm

UVA2B wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
UVA2B wrote:That's out of self-selection mostly (several family members recently graduated from med school, have spoken to them about the whole match process at length). Many MDs are truly interested in just helping people and developing a connection with their patients. It's not because they couldn't do something else. One family member showed me the average Step 1 scores for the different specialties, and the bar isn't set that high to get into things like general surgery, Emergency Medicine, etc., which make upwards of $200k minimum immediately following residency (and possibly fellowship if they want to specialize further). The most competitive, and therefore highest step 1 scores, are in things with very few residency programs nationally like Derm, ENT, and a few highly specialized like neurosurgery, plastics, and orthopedic surgery.

Again, completely different profession with people having mostly different goals. Most MDs I've spoken to on the issue know what the compensation will be like in their specialty and are comfortable with it because it's what they want to do.


First, general surgery residencies suck big balls. They also work crazy, insane hours for life. Most med students do not have the temperament or stamina to become surgeons. Since their QOL sucks, that's why people opt out of it. The money (which isn't even that high for the amount of bullshit they put up with) just doesn't compensate for the shitty QOL.

Second, Emergency Medicine also sucks balls. Nobody I know who does it likes it because of the shitty QOL and also low-quality patient time. They spend like 5 minutes with each patient and that's it. They become jaded and miserable. It's like working at the fast food chain of medicine.

The ones that are the most competitive make a shitload of money and may also have high QOL (like dermatology). And those specialized surgeons can make bank, perhaps compensating for the shitty QOL during residency. They also have better QOL after residency than gen surgeons.

So yeah, it looks people pick based on QOL and money....maybe a few go into low paying fields because they want to "help" people, but most likely it's because they did poorly on the Step 1.
Last edited by whysooseriousbiglaw on Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby 34iplaw » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:37 pm

I think a lot has been discussed since I was last involved, so I'll just add something rather than getting into rehash territory.

My knowledge is basically limited to interactions with med-skewl friends, and some research on SDN about how something like a post-bacc would work. I would probably be in a better position to get into a top med school than a top law school provided I find a strong post-bacc (mainly because I have a non-existant SGPA and my UGPA isn't *that* bad. I'd probably be better off applying to a med-school with a similar percentile MCAT provided a strong post-bacc program.

Anywho, I inquired on the boards because of that chart Wiz linked to. Supposedly, that is far more often the fault of the applicant rather than high scorers being rejected from any med school or barred from attending. The problem is you get high-scorers that only apply to the top three or five programs. They get blocked out, because they did not apply broadly enough. It'd be similar to 3.9x 177s only applying to Y.

I think the key difference with med school and law school is that from any med school, the "worst" outcome tends to be low to mid six figures with almost assured job security. Some people elect into that. Granted, it is far harder to get into *any* med school than *any* law school, and rock-star law outcomes generally eclipse rock-star medicine outcomes. I would agree that most people getting into a T10/T13/T14 etc. law school (prob T20 even) could likely get into a med school provided sufficient effort. After that, I would think it would get a bit dicey TBH. As for outcomes, I don't think STEP scores vary all that much, so a lot of it is more what you want (besides a few super competitive residencies like derm).

All of this with the caveat that direct comparisons are of obviously limited value.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby whysooseriousbiglaw » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:39 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
Who the hell attends non T-13 law schools these days? I thought the discussion was top law schools versus med school?

No offense, but I bet a person who can score a high enough LSAT on average to get into a T-13 can do well enough to get into multiple MD programs. Just do a "hand out As like candy" post-bac and you're set.

Like 85% of law school applicants?

The point was that you can't compare a T13 to a similar top X med school. You're comparing getting into any random med school to a T13 law school.


I think it's probably more accurate to compare the top 13 law schools to the top 20-25 MD programs...


This entire discussion about getting into med school is stupid because MD programs aren't prestige-obsessed like law schools are. Outside of maybe research and cutting edge areas of medicine (and even this I'm skeptical of), go to any MD program, do reasonably well in it and kill the board exams and you can get any type of residency specialty you want. Remember that something like 95% of MDs match in their desired field, which provided they complete that training, are all but guaranteed high paying and relevant work afterward. Getting into med school is the biggest hurdle to a relatively assured outcome. MD students are not going in wanting to do neurosurgery and getting pigeonholed into family medicine in the middle of nowhere. That neurosurgeon might end up settling for general surgery because they didn't quite do well enough on step 1 of the board exams, but that's nothing like the disparity between Biglaw and small firm work. Even the average family practice MD is making low six figures.

It's an entirely different profession with entirely different market dynamics. Comparing med schools to law schools is apples to oranges.

This is more or less what I've been saying with respect to the culling being done pre-med school rather than during OCI for law. And how you can't compare getting into med school to getting into law school because the prestige bands don't work the same way.

The T13/M7 doesn't exist for med schools, and you can go very low down the rankings list and still have a strong probability of having a good outcome (which is not the case for law school).


I think they were talking about it in the context of prestige/caliber of students as well.

Even DOs have decent job prospects (if you count urgent care centers and rural family med decent)....

Frankly, I'd rather be a janitor than a family med practitioner these days --- high quotas, too little time with patients, too much paperwork, decreasing reimbursements, etc. It's becoming more and more impossible to open up your own shop - you have to work for a hospital or some shit, meeting quotas and doing shitloads of paperwork and having no quality time with patients. Plus you can't even give meaningful advice - just doll out prescriptions like candy. Plus the pay isn't even that good for the opportunity cost. Compare that with working as a cop or teacher with pension? There's no comparison. I think the teacher (and most definitely, cop) with a pension would actually win out financially over the family med physician.

Okay, now you're being ridiculous.

And, yes, I think there's a disconnect between employment outcomes across medical schools versus law schools and prestige/student quality across the same.


How? I've calculated pensions because I thought about going from law to cop/teaching and pensions are worth like 1 to 2 million, at least. Upstate NY cops make six figures in addition to having pensions.....

Unionized construction workers in NYC make six figures. My unionized janitor is going to have a pension.

People really overlook certain fields because of the supposed low base pay, but in reality we're the dumb ones for not figuring out how much pensions are worth.
Last edited by whysooseriousbiglaw on Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Hikikomorist » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:40 pm

whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
Right, but in terms of prestige and caliber of students, there's a HUGE gap between Wake Forest/FSU and John Hopkins/Harvard/Stanford. And I'm sure going to JHU will help at least some bit with residencies.

Also, if MDs do not do well enough on the Step 1, they might not get neurosurgery and get stuck with family med...don't most MDs end up going into family med/IM/psych/peds?

It does help with residencies. And there are obviously way more resident positions available for the lower-tier specialities than neuro/cardio.

But land basically any speciality and you're looking at $300k on average. Do orthopedics, cardiology, anesthesiology, or neuro, and you bank.


At least for anesthesiology, CRNAs are replacing them for like 150k-200k salaries or whatever, instead of paying doctors 300k. Now one doc is supervising like 4-5 nurses instead of hiring 4-5 doctors. Everyone and their mother has to go into a fellowship just to supposedly stay competitive (and who knows how long it will take for nurses to start replacing anesthesiologists in more specialized shit).

For radiology, they are outsourcing that work to India.

Nurses are also making more headway into other areas and of course PAs have already replaced a lot of ER docs and gone into other fields.

If you want to get rich, and you're paying for school on your own, don't go to professional school. It's way too costly, and the opportunity cost is way too high. Plus, there's a shitload of uncertainty in the medical field right now.

Instead, go become a programmer and make like 200k straight out of college at 22 or go work in finance.

This is especially strange for medical students, because they actually majored in something useful and achieved decent grades. The main/only reason to choose law school is because you fucked up in one of those two areas.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby whysooseriousbiglaw » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:41 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
Right, but in terms of prestige and caliber of students, there's a HUGE gap between Wake Forest/FSU and John Hopkins/Harvard/Stanford. And I'm sure going to JHU will help at least some bit with residencies.

Also, if MDs do not do well enough on the Step 1, they might not get neurosurgery and get stuck with family med...don't most MDs end up going into family med/IM/psych/peds?

It does help with residencies. And there are obviously way more resident positions available for the lower-tier specialities than neuro/cardio.

But land basically any speciality and you're looking at $300k on average. Do orthopedics, cardiology, anesthesiology, or neuro, and you bank.


At least for anesthesiology, CRNAs are replacing them for like 150k-200k salaries or whatever, instead of paying doctors 300k. Now one doc is supervising like 4-5 nurses instead of hiring 4-5 doctors. Everyone and their mother has to go into a fellowship just to supposedly stay competitive (and who knows how long it will take for nurses to start replacing anesthesiologists in more specialized shit).

For radiology, they are outsourcing that work to India.

Nurses are also making more headway into other areas and of course PAs have already replaced a lot of ER docs and gone into other fields.

If you want to get rich, and you're paying for school on your own, don't go to professional school. It's way too costly, and the opportunity cost is way too high. Plus, there's a shitload of uncertainty in the medical field right now.

Instead, go become a programmer and make like 200k straight out of college at 22 or go work in finance.

This is especially strange for medical students, because they actually majored in something useful and achieved decent grades. The main/only reason to choose law school is because you fucked up in one of those two areas.


Biology isn't useful. It's an unemployable degree.

Just do CS/engineering/accounting/econ/finance. If you want to go to med school, do whatever gives you a high GPA and do a "free As" post-bac.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby whysooseriousbiglaw » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:43 pm

Also, I was talking to an NYPD officer - guy makes six figures, has a huge pension and is worth like 3-4 million....where did I go wrong?

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby UVA2B » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:44 pm

whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
UVA2B wrote:That's out of self-selection mostly (several family members recently graduated from med school, have spoken to them about the whole match process at length). Many MDs are truly interested in just helping people and developing a connection with their patients. It's not because they couldn't do something else. One family member showed me the average Step 1 scores for the different specialties, and the bar isn't set that high to get into things like general surgery, Emergency Medicine, etc., which make upwards of $200k minimum immediately following residency (and possibly fellowship if they want to specialize further). The most competitive, and therefore highest step 1 scores, are in things with very few residency programs nationally like Derm, ENT, and a few highly specialized like neurosurgery, plastics, and orthopedic surgery.

Again, completely different profession with people having mostly different goals. Most MDs I've spoken to on the issue know what the compensation will be like in their specialty and are comfortable with it because it's what they want to do.


First, general surgery residencies suck big balls. Like they work crazy, insane hours for life. Most med students do not have the temperament or stamina to become surgeons. Since their QOL sucks, that's why people opt out of it. The money (which isn't even that high for the amount of bullshit they put up with) just doesn't compensate for the shitty QOL.

Second, Emergency Medicine also sucks balls. Nobody I know who does it likes it because of the shitty QOL and also low-quality patient time. They spend like 5 minutes with each patient and that's it. They become jaded and miserable. It's like working at the fast food chain of medicine.

The ones that are the most competitive make a shitload of money and may also have high QOL (like dermatology). And those specialized surgeons can make bank, perhaps compensating for the shitty QOL during residency. They also have better QOL after residency than gen surgeons.

So yeah, it looks people pick based on QOL and money....maybe a few go into low paying fields because they want to "help" people, but most likely it's because they did poorly on the Step 1.


I'll see your anecdata and raise you with my own. First, all surgery specialties go through general surgery residency and then subspecialize following that. The life during residency sucks for any surgeon, and what type of surgeon you want to be determines how long that residency will be. Hell, residency in general is like hell because you're working a ton for very little pay with a carrot waiting at the end of the tunnel of high pay and lower hours.

Emergency medicine is largely what you say (again, residency sucks with a ton of fast-paced work), but knowing several EM docs, they chose it specifically for that fast-paced nature. They generally weren't interested in long patient interactions and continuity of care. They wanted a constantly changing population of patients where they have to know a little about a lot of areas, vice knowing a lot about very little within medicine. Plus they like not having call, opting for the shift work of emergency medicine. Going home and not having to respond 24/7 to their patient's needs is de-stressing. Plus once they're done with residency they can work 15-18 eight hour shifts per month and easily break $300k for it. You call that poor QOL? I guess we'll just have to disagree there.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Hikikomorist » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:45 pm

whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
wiz wrote:
whysooseriousbiglaw wrote:
Right, but in terms of prestige and caliber of students, there's a HUGE gap between Wake Forest/FSU and John Hopkins/Harvard/Stanford. And I'm sure going to JHU will help at least some bit with residencies.

Also, if MDs do not do well enough on the Step 1, they might not get neurosurgery and get stuck with family med...don't most MDs end up going into family med/IM/psych/peds?

It does help with residencies. And there are obviously way more resident positions available for the lower-tier specialities than neuro/cardio.

But land basically any speciality and you're looking at $300k on average. Do orthopedics, cardiology, anesthesiology, or neuro, and you bank.


At least for anesthesiology, CRNAs are replacing them for like 150k-200k salaries or whatever, instead of paying doctors 300k. Now one doc is supervising like 4-5 nurses instead of hiring 4-5 doctors. Everyone and their mother has to go into a fellowship just to supposedly stay competitive (and who knows how long it will take for nurses to start replacing anesthesiologists in more specialized shit).

For radiology, they are outsourcing that work to India.

Nurses are also making more headway into other areas and of course PAs have already replaced a lot of ER docs and gone into other fields.

If you want to get rich, and you're paying for school on your own, don't go to professional school. It's way too costly, and the opportunity cost is way too high. Plus, there's a shitload of uncertainty in the medical field right now.

Instead, go become a programmer and make like 200k straight out of college at 22 or go work in finance.

This is especially strange for medical students, because they actually majored in something useful and achieved decent grades. The main/only reason to choose law school is because you fucked up in one of those two areas.


Biology isn't useful. It's an unemployable degree.

Just do CS/engineering/accounting/econ/finance.

Figured that people who could maintain good grades in biology could do the same in computer science. "Useful" probably wasn't the right word. Might be better to say it requires some work. And an economics degree isn't useful either.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby wiz » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:46 pm

34iplaw wrote:I think a lot has been discussed since I was last involved, so I'll just add something rather than getting into rehash territory.

My knowledge is basically limited to interactions with med-skewl friends, and some research on SDN about how something like a post-bacc would work. I would probably be in a better position to get into a top med school than a top law school provided I find a strong post-bacc (mainly because I have a non-existant SGPA and my UGPA isn't *that* bad. I'd probably be better off applying to a med-school with a similar percentile MCAT provided a strong post-bacc program.

Anywho, I inquired on the boards because of that chart Wiz linked to. Supposedly, that is far more often the fault of the applicant rather than high scorers being rejected from any med school or barred from attending. The problem is you get high-scorers that only apply to the top three or five programs. They get blocked out, because they did not apply broadly enough. It'd be similar to 3.9x 177s only applying to Y.

I think the key difference with med school and law school is that from any med school, the "worst" outcome tends to be low to mid six figures with almost assured job security. Some people elect into that. Granted, it is far harder to get into *any* med school than *any* law school, and rock-star law outcomes generally eclipse rock-star medicine outcomes. I would agree that most people getting into a T10/T13/T14 etc. law school (prob T20 even) could likely get into a med school provided sufficient effort. After that, I would think it would get a bit dicey TBH. As for outcomes, I don't think STEP scores vary all that much, so a lot of it is more what you want (besides a few super competitive residencies like derm).

All of this with the caveat that direct comparisons are of obviously limited value.

I don't really buy that you have all these brilliant YLS-level med students getting completely shut out of med school because they only applied to Harvard, Stanford, and Hopkins. Nobody is that dumb if they can maintain a high sGPA through orgo, biochemistry, pchem, and other upper level science classes and get a 39 MCAT (old scale). I'm sure it happens at the margins, but if you look at the entering class profiles for the above average to good med schools, the students are pretty impressive compared to most law students.

Low acceptance rates are a function of tons of applicants and small class sizes. Med schools make cuts at the application stage rather than waiting for firms during OCI to ding half the class.

I don't disagree that getting into any med school is all that hard, but you're comparing top law school applicants to bottom of the barrel med school applicants if you say that.

Also, why do you think you could get into a better med school than law school? You said your GPA isn't that bad, so you can get into CLS/Chicago with a high enough LSAT. You can't possibly be that confident in landing Stanford or Harvard Med on the medical school side to top that.
Last edited by wiz on Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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