2018 USNWR Rankings

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Hikikomorist

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Hikikomorist » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:51 pm

dbalkaran wrote:
dabigchina wrote:
dbalkaran wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
Kronk wrote:UT Austin is actually better than either of those schools if we're considering North Carolina and Texas the South

Are you delusional?


The whole undergrad prestige thing is stupid. Specializations matter way more in undergrad so depending on what you study the top schools change.

For example look at the Bloomberg Top 10 undergrad business schools.

1. Villanova
2. Notre Dame
3. Boston College
4. Indiana
5. UVA
6. UT
7. UNC
8. Michigan
9. NYU
10. Bentley

Don't think anyone would consider Indiana or Bentley national powerhouse schools, but for business they place extremely well into all of the top accounting, finance, and consulting firms. I went to Bentley and it was weird to not see someone working at Deloitte, PwC, E&Y, KPMG, Bain, Merrill Lynch, JP Morgan and other places with similar prestige. If you look at the Top 10 Engineering schools for undergrad there's literally one school that's the same.

1. MIT
2. Stanford
3. Cal Berkeley
4. Cal Tech
5. Georgia Tech
6. University of Illinois
7. Michigan
8. Carnegie Mellon
9. Cornell
10. Purdue

IMO undergrad matters far less than grad school. A good GPA is the most important thing whether you went to some random state school or NYU. If you graduate from a top school with a shit GPA you're no better than a state school kid with a 3.9-4.0 from what I've seen.


I have literally never heard anyone call Bentley a feeder for mbb or bb ibd.

The big4 are not prestigious. Anyone with a pulse and 150 accounting course hours can get a job in big4 accounting.


Sure they can. I'd love to see all the kids from Florida State at Deloitte. Who doesn't consider a job at PwC prestigious? You're in the minority there thinking that the Big4 aren't prestigious. There are plenty of kids that work at Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Credit Suisse, UBS, Citibank, State Street and other banks from Bentley. I never said they were a feeder school, but kids from Bentley or any of the other schools in the list I presented have no problems getting jobs at prestigious companies.

Can someone run a LinkedIn search looking at the number of Bentley (not the car, apparently) alumni at MBB/BB IBD? I would, but I'm currently restricted due to being at my non-commercial limit. Maybe compare with a similarly sized/smaller LAC (PAWS-tier).
Last edited by Hikikomorist on Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Hikikomorist » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:53 pm

dbalkaran wrote:
FascinatedWanderer wrote:I don't know what's happening here but no one cares about undergrad business rankings. If you're doing "business" at Villanova or Bentley all that means is you weren't smart enough to major in Econ at Harvard, MIT, Columbia etc.


Most people (27%) who go into investment banking are finance majors and none of those schools offer a degree in finance. 14% of people come from an economics background so I'm not sure how you think the only people getting into top banks are from Ivy econ programs.

I'm sure those MIT grads are ruing their decision not to have heard of Bentley.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby FascinatedWanderer » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:55 pm

A quick linkedin search on past employer McKinsey with school Bentley turned up 32 people. Same search for Columbia turned up about 200,000.

Bain turns up a whopping 78 for Bentley. Really crushing it.

Sorry for edits.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby star fox » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:22 pm

FascinatedWanderer wrote:A quick linkedin search on past employer McKinsey with school Bentley turned up 32 people. Same search for Columbia turned up about 200,000.

Bain turns up a whopping 78 for Bentley. Really crushing it.

Sorry for edits.

Only about 4000 students enrolled.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Hikikomorist » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:29 pm

star fox wrote:
FascinatedWanderer wrote:A quick linkedin search on past employer McKinsey with school Bentley turned up 32 people. Same search for Columbia turned up about 200,000.

Bain turns up a whopping 78 for Bentley. Really crushing it.

Sorry for edits.

Only about 4000 students enrolled.

Only 6k or so for Columbia UG.

Lawl_Schoolz

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Lawl_Schoolz » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:41 pm

.
Last edited by Lawl_Schoolz on Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Hikikomorist » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:43 pm

Lawl_Schoolz wrote:91 McKinsey for Amherst & 80 Bain (1792 students)
107 McKinsey for Williams & 125 Bain (2099 students)

Current or past?

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Lawl_Schoolz » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:49 pm

.
Last edited by Lawl_Schoolz on Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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wiz

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby wiz » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:36 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:
dbalkaran wrote:
dabigchina wrote:
dbalkaran wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
Kronk wrote:UT Austin is actually better than either of those schools if we're considering North Carolina and Texas the South

Are you delusional?


The whole undergrad prestige thing is stupid. Specializations matter way more in undergrad so depending on what you study the top schools change.

For example look at the Bloomberg Top 10 undergrad business schools.

1. Villanova
2. Notre Dame
3. Boston College
4. Indiana
5. UVA
6. UT
7. UNC
8. Michigan
9. NYU
10. Bentley

Don't think anyone would consider Indiana or Bentley national powerhouse schools, but for business they place extremely well into all of the top accounting, finance, and consulting firms. I went to Bentley and it was weird to not see someone working at Deloitte, PwC, E&Y, KPMG, Bain, Merrill Lynch, JP Morgan and other places with similar prestige. If you look at the Top 10 Engineering schools for undergrad there's literally one school that's the same.

1. MIT
2. Stanford
3. Cal Berkeley
4. Cal Tech
5. Georgia Tech
6. University of Illinois
7. Michigan
8. Carnegie Mellon
9. Cornell
10. Purdue

IMO undergrad matters far less than grad school. A good GPA is the most important thing whether you went to some random state school or NYU. If you graduate from a top school with a shit GPA you're no better than a state school kid with a 3.9-4.0 from what I've seen.


I have literally never heard anyone call Bentley a feeder for mbb or bb ibd.

The big4 are not prestigious. Anyone with a pulse and 150 accounting course hours can get a job in big4 accounting.


Sure they can. I'd love to see all the kids from Florida State at Deloitte. Who doesn't consider a job at PwC prestigious? You're in the minority there thinking that the Big4 aren't prestigious. There are plenty of kids that work at Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Credit Suisse, UBS, Citibank, State Street and other banks from Bentley. I never said they were a feeder school, but kids from Bentley or any of the other schools in the list I presented have no problems getting jobs at prestigious companies.

Can someone run a LinkedIn search looking at the number of Bentley (not the car, apparently) alumni at MBB/BB IBD? I would, but I'm currently restricted due to being at my non-commercial limit. Maybe compare with a similarly sized/smaller LAC (PAWS-tier).

Why is PAWS a tier? Amherst/Williams (1a) and Swarthmore (1b) are in their own league when it comes to LACs.

FascinatedWanderer

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby FascinatedWanderer » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:40 pm

I'm glad we've rigorously established that Bentley isn't a good school but I'm confused as do why it was necessary.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Hikikomorist » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:54 pm

wiz wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
dbalkaran wrote:
dabigchina wrote:
dbalkaran wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
Kronk wrote:UT Austin is actually better than either of those schools if we're considering North Carolina and Texas the South

Are you delusional?


The whole undergrad prestige thing is stupid. Specializations matter way more in undergrad so depending on what you study the top schools change.

For example look at the Bloomberg Top 10 undergrad business schools.

1. Villanova
2. Notre Dame
3. Boston College
4. Indiana
5. UVA
6. UT
7. UNC
8. Michigan
9. NYU
10. Bentley

Don't think anyone would consider Indiana or Bentley national powerhouse schools, but for business they place extremely well into all of the top accounting, finance, and consulting firms. I went to Bentley and it was weird to not see someone working at Deloitte, PwC, E&Y, KPMG, Bain, Merrill Lynch, JP Morgan and other places with similar prestige. If you look at the Top 10 Engineering schools for undergrad there's literally one school that's the same.

1. MIT
2. Stanford
3. Cal Berkeley
4. Cal Tech
5. Georgia Tech
6. University of Illinois
7. Michigan
8. Carnegie Mellon
9. Cornell
10. Purdue

IMO undergrad matters far less than grad school. A good GPA is the most important thing whether you went to some random state school or NYU. If you graduate from a top school with a shit GPA you're no better than a state school kid with a 3.9-4.0 from what I've seen.


I have literally never heard anyone call Bentley a feeder for mbb or bb ibd.

The big4 are not prestigious. Anyone with a pulse and 150 accounting course hours can get a job in big4 accounting.


Sure they can. I'd love to see all the kids from Florida State at Deloitte. Who doesn't consider a job at PwC prestigious? You're in the minority there thinking that the Big4 aren't prestigious. There are plenty of kids that work at Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Credit Suisse, UBS, Citibank, State Street and other banks from Bentley. I never said they were a feeder school, but kids from Bentley or any of the other schools in the list I presented have no problems getting jobs at prestigious companies.

Can someone run a LinkedIn search looking at the number of Bentley (not the car, apparently) alumni at MBB/BB IBD? I would, but I'm currently restricted due to being at my non-commercial limit. Maybe compare with a similarly sized/smaller LAC (PAWS-tier).

Why is PAWS a tier? Amherst/Williams (1a) and Swarthmore (1b) are in their own league when it comes to LACs.

This is probably the most important thing I have going on in my life: making sure people recognize Pomona's rightful place among elite LACs. Test scores and per-student endowment. Maybe not quite there yet in terms of lay prestige, but they deserve it and should get there. See them as the Stanford of LACs.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Hikikomorist » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:54 pm

FascinatedWanderer wrote:I'm glad we've rigorously established that Bentley isn't a good school but I'm confused as do why it was necessary.

Yeah, we might have jumped the shark there.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby wiz » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:01 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:This is probably the most important thing I have going on in my life: making sure people recognize Pomona's rightful place among elite LACs. Test scores and per-student endowment. Maybe not quite there yet in terms of lay prestige, but they deserve it and should get there. See them as the Stanford of LACs.

Per-student endowment has some serious non-prestigious outliers (Berea College, University of Richmond, Washington and Lee University), and I don't think anybody would consider Wellesley/Grinnell more prestigious than Chicago. Test scores still fall into the inputs category, but Pomona doesn't have the prestige of Amherst/Williams/Swathmore, which themselves don't have actual prestige by virtue of being LACs.

Stanford has been in the HYP tier for a while (or at least HYPSM) despite being founded four years after Pomona. Nobody really considers (or at least not many consider) Pomona to be Amherst/Williams level outside of Pomona alums, you, and (I'm guessing) nony's high school.
Last edited by wiz on Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Pomeranian » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:04 pm

Lawl_Schoolz wrote:Past without current.

Add another 16 for Amherst at Bain currently & another 23 for McKinsey currently.

Add another 31 for Williams at Bain currently & another 30 for McKinsey currently.



Kind of off topic, but Brigham Young University seriously outperforms with elite consulting firms and Goldman Sachs. Wonder why? Do these firms like conservative Mormon values?

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wiz

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby wiz » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:05 pm

Pomeranian wrote:
Lawl_Schoolz wrote:Past without current.

Add another 16 for Amherst at Bain currently & another 23 for McKinsey currently.

Add another 31 for Williams at Bain currently & another 30 for McKinsey currently.



Kind of off topic, but Brigham Young seriously outperforms with elite consulting firms and Goldman Sachs. Wonder why? Do these firms like conservative Mormon values?

LDS network is really strong.

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MKC

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby MKC » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:10 pm

wiz wrote:
Pomeranian wrote:
Lawl_Schoolz wrote:Past without current.

Add another 16 for Amherst at Bain currently & another 23 for McKinsey currently.

Add another 31 for Williams at Bain currently & another 30 for McKinsey currently.



Kind of off topic, but Brigham Young seriously outperforms with elite consulting firms and Goldman Sachs. Wonder why? Do these firms like conservative Mormon values?

LDS network is really strong.


Imagine if you never needed coffee and were literally never hungover.

Mormons are basically superhuman work machines.
Last edited by MKC on Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby wiz » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:18 pm

MarkinKansasCity wrote:
wiz wrote:
Pomeranian wrote:
Lawl_Schoolz wrote:Past without current.

Add another 16 for Amherst at Bain currently & another 23 for McKinsey currently.

Add another 31 for Williams at Bain currently & another 30 for McKinsey currently.



Kind of off topic, but Brigham Young seriously outperforms with elite consulting firms and Goldman Sachs. Wonder why? Do these firms like conservative Mormon values?

LDS network is really strong.


Imagine if you never needed coffee and were literally never hungover.

Mormons are basically superhuman work machines.

Hiring an army of Mormons seems like a sweet market inefficiency when you put it like that.

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Pomeranian

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Pomeranian » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:20 pm

Big 4 is a great place to launch a career...much more respectable than "Social Media Assistant" at Refinery29.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Pomeranian » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:23 pm

MarkinKansasCity wrote:
wiz wrote:
Pomeranian wrote:
Lawl_Schoolz wrote:Past without current.

Add another 16 for Amherst at Bain currently & another 23 for McKinsey currently.

Add another 31 for Williams at Bain currently & another 30 for McKinsey currently.



Kind of off topic, but Brigham Young seriously outperforms with elite consulting firms and Goldman Sachs. Wonder why? Do these firms like conservative Mormon values?

LDS network is really strong.


Imagine if you never needed coffee and were literally never hungover.

Mormons are basically superhuman work machines.


Add good morals and integrity (generally).

Hikikomorist

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Hikikomorist » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:04 pm

MarkinKansasCity wrote:
wiz wrote:
Pomeranian wrote:
Lawl_Schoolz wrote:Past without current.

Add another 16 for Amherst at Bain currently & another 23 for McKinsey currently.

Add another 31 for Williams at Bain currently & another 30 for McKinsey currently.



Kind of off topic, but Brigham Young seriously outperforms with elite consulting firms and Goldman Sachs. Wonder why? Do these firms like conservative Mormon values?

LDS network is really strong.


Imagine if you never needed coffee and were literally never hungover.

Mormons are basically superhuman work machines.

I don't have to imagine that, but I don't think anyone would characterize me as a superhuman work machine.

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wiz

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby wiz » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:07 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
wiz wrote:
Pomeranian wrote:
Lawl_Schoolz wrote:Past without current.

Add another 16 for Amherst at Bain currently & another 23 for McKinsey currently.

Add another 31 for Williams at Bain currently & another 30 for McKinsey currently.



Kind of off topic, but Brigham Young seriously outperforms with elite consulting firms and Goldman Sachs. Wonder why? Do these firms like conservative Mormon values?

LDS network is really strong.


Imagine if you never needed coffee and were literally never hungover.

Mormons are basically superhuman work machines.

I don't have to imagine that, but I don't think anyone would characterize me as a superhuman work machine.

You don't drink coffee or drink drink?

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Hikikomorist » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:09 pm

wiz wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:This is probably the most important thing I have going on in my life: making sure people recognize Pomona's rightful place among elite LACs. Test scores and per-student endowment. Maybe not quite there yet in terms of lay prestige, but they deserve it and should get there. See them as the Stanford of LACs.

Per-student endowment has some serious non-prestigious outliers (Berea College, University of Richmond, Washington and Lee University), and I don't think anybody would consider Wellesley/Grinnell more prestigious than Chicago. Test scores still fall into the inputs category, but Pomona doesn't have the prestige of Amherst/Williams/Swathmore, which themselves don't have actual prestige by virtue of being LACs.

Stanford has been in the HYP tier for a while (or at least HYPSM) despite being founded four years after Pomona. Nobody really considers (or at least not many consider) Pomona to be Amherst/Williams level outside of Pomona alums, you, and (I'm guessing) nony's high school.

Agreed about LACs not having lay prestige or any real prestige on the PSYCHM level. Also agreed on there being problematic outliers, which is why per-student endowment is just a minor supplement to median test scores. I do think it's an input variable that's useful for tracking alumni success and available student resources.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Hikikomorist » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:10 pm

wiz wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
wiz wrote:
Pomeranian wrote:
Lawl_Schoolz wrote:Past without current.

Add another 16 for Amherst at Bain currently & another 23 for McKinsey currently.

Add another 31 for Williams at Bain currently & another 30 for McKinsey currently.



Kind of off topic, but Brigham Young seriously outperforms with elite consulting firms and Goldman Sachs. Wonder why? Do these firms like conservative Mormon values?

LDS network is really strong.


Imagine if you never needed coffee and were literally never hungover.

Mormons are basically superhuman work machines.

I don't have to imagine that, but I don't think anyone would characterize me as a superhuman work machine.

You don't drink coffee or drink drink?

Rarely drink coffee or alcohol. Coffee makes me jittery and screws with my sleep schedule. Alcohol is expensive and tastes bad.

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wiz

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby wiz » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:19 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:
wiz wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:This is probably the most important thing I have going on in my life: making sure people recognize Pomona's rightful place among elite LACs. Test scores and per-student endowment. Maybe not quite there yet in terms of lay prestige, but they deserve it and should get there. See them as the Stanford of LACs.

Per-student endowment has some serious non-prestigious outliers (Berea College, University of Richmond, Washington and Lee University), and I don't think anybody would consider Wellesley/Grinnell more prestigious than Chicago. Test scores still fall into the inputs category, but Pomona doesn't have the prestige of Amherst/Williams/Swathmore, which themselves don't have actual prestige by virtue of being LACs.

Stanford has been in the HYP tier for a while (or at least HYPSM) despite being founded four years after Pomona. Nobody really considers (or at least not many consider) Pomona to be Amherst/Williams level outside of Pomona alums, you, and (I'm guessing) nony's high school.

Agreed about LACs not having lay prestige or any real prestige on the PSYCHM level. Also agreed on there being problematic outliers, which is why per-student endowment is just a minor supplement to median test scores. I do think it's an input variable that's useful for tracking alumni success and available student resources.

I don't think they have prestige in general—not just at the top tier level but even at the Northwestern/Hopkins/Vanderbilt level. They have low acceptance rates and a decent following among people who are really into rankings and LACs and, I'm assuming, strong alumni loyalty, given the endowment, but I would still describe them as more of a cult than a prestigious group.

I agree that there are great student resources and people who attend get a phenomenal education (something something grade deflation and professors who aren't only focused on research), but there's just no way that seeing Swarthmore at the top of a resume (or dropping Pomona in a casual conversation) gets the same reaction as Columbia or Dartmouth.

I guess I just wouldn't conflate inputs like selectivity or even test scores with prestige. I do think it can be a decent prelude for future prestige/rankings, though those things take a while to catch up. When I was applying to college, Chicago's acceptance rate was in the mid 20s, and most people I knew would have taken any Ivy + Stanford/MIT/Caltech/Duke over Chicago. Now it's like Columbia level.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby wiz » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:21 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:
wiz wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
wiz wrote:
Pomeranian wrote:
Lawl_Schoolz wrote:Past without current.

Add another 16 for Amherst at Bain currently & another 23 for McKinsey currently.

Add another 31 for Williams at Bain currently & another 30 for McKinsey currently.



Kind of off topic, but Brigham Young seriously outperforms with elite consulting firms and Goldman Sachs. Wonder why? Do these firms like conservative Mormon values?

LDS network is really strong.


Imagine if you never needed coffee and were literally never hungover.

Mormons are basically superhuman work machines.

I don't have to imagine that, but I don't think anyone would characterize me as a superhuman work machine.

You don't drink coffee or drink drink?

Rarely drink coffee or alcohol. Coffee makes me jittery and screws with my sleep schedule. Alcohol is expensive and tastes bad.

I don't drink coffee either because I don't like the taste, but alcohol is at minimum worth it as an investment in having an actual social life.



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