2018 USNWR Rankings

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Moneytrees

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Moneytrees » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:53 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:
star fox wrote:Hikko - I was thinking about this and you're my go to guy on these sorts of things. What is the cutoff for what constitutes a prestigious undergrad?

National Universities
Tier 1: PSYCHM
Tier 2: Columbia, Chicago, Duke, Penn, Dartmouth, Vanderbilt, Brown, Rice
Tier 3: WUSTL, Cornell, Georgetown, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, NYU, Notre Dame, Emory, Berkeley, Tufts, Carnegie Mellon, UVA, Michigan, Boston College, USC, UCLA

Just a rough outline. Order within tiers not super precise. Personal preference would be slightly different in some cases. Open to disagreement/suggestions.


Pretty solid list actually. I would move Rice and Vandy to tier 3, or move Cornell, NW, John Hopkins, and ND to tier 2.

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star fox

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby star fox » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:54 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:
star fox wrote:Hikko - I was thinking about this and you're my go to guy on these sorts of things. What is the cutoff for what constitutes a prestigious undergrad?

National Universities
Tier 1: PSYCHM
Tier 2: Columbia, Chicago, Duke, Penn, Dartmouth, Vanderbilt, Brown, Rice
Tier 3: WUSTL, Cornell, Georgetown, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, NYU, Notre Dame, Emory, Berkeley, Tufts, Carnegie Mellon, UVA, Michigan, Boston College, USC, UCLA

Just a rough outline. Order within tiers not super precise. Personal preference would be slightly different in some cases. Open to disagreement/suggestions.

What do you think separates Tier 2 from Tier 3?

Rigo

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Rigo » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:56 pm

I don't think Boston College and Tufts are prestigious on a national level and I'm from the Northeast.

(I can't help myself. Too much coffee.)

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proteinshake

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby proteinshake » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:02 pm

take this convo to College Confidential

Hikikomorist

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Hikikomorist » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:04 pm

star fox wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
star fox wrote:Hikko - I was thinking about this and you're my go to guy on these sorts of things. What is the cutoff for what constitutes a prestigious undergrad?

National Universities
Tier 1: PSYCHM
Tier 2: Columbia, Chicago, Duke, Penn, Dartmouth, Vanderbilt, Brown, Rice
Tier 3: WUSTL, Cornell, Georgetown, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, NYU, Notre Dame, Emory, Berkeley, Tufts, Carnegie Mellon, UVA, Michigan, Boston College, USC, UCLA

Just a rough outline. Order within tiers not super precise. Personal preference would be slightly different in some cases. Open to disagreement/suggestions.

What do you think separates Tier 2 from Tier 3?

I was basically looking at the first four schools listed in Tier 2 and asking whether I could plausibly see someone picking the school in question over those four for not completely idiosyncratic reasons (e.g., financial aid, family closeness). I still put Georgetown in Tier 3, because I think the consensus is that they're screwed financially and have been declining at the UG level for the past several years. I put ND in Tier 3, because I don't think many people view it on the same level as the other schools in Tier 2 but for the religious attraction. Cornell and WUSTL were really tough to place, and you could talk me into moving them up into Tier 2.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Rigo » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:05 pm

proteinshake wrote:take this convo to College Confidential

oooo good idea.

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star fox

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby star fox » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:05 pm

Would you be ok with someone from BC saying they went to a "prestigious" school? Judging from hardcore Catholic School kids, it seems like you go to BC if you couldn't get into Notre Dame and if you get into both you would always choose Notre Dame.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Rigo » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:07 pm

star fox wrote:Would you be ok with someone from BC saying they went to a "prestigious" school?

Id 100% roll my eyes.
I'd be impressed by Williams or Amherst though but I'm not sure if those LAC's have much prestige beyond the northeast.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Hikikomorist » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:07 pm

star fox wrote:Would you be ok with someone from BC saying they went to a "prestigious" school? Judging from hardcore Catholic School kids, it seems like you go to BC if you couldn't get into Notre Dame and if you get into both you would always choose Notre Dame.

I could see starting Tier 4 after Berkeley.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Hikikomorist » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:08 pm

Rigo wrote:
star fox wrote:Would you be ok with someone from BC saying they went to a "prestigious" school?

Id 100% roll my eyes.
I'd be impressed by Williams or Amherst though but I'm not sure if those LAC's have much prestige beyond the northeast.

They absolutely do among the top-colleges crowd.

Moneytrees

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Moneytrees » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:09 pm

My list would be:

Tier 1: PSYCHM
Tier 2: Columbia, Chicago, Duke, Penn
Tier 3: Dartmouth, Cornell, Vanderbilt, Brown, Rice, Notre Dame, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, Georgetown, WUSTL, UC Berkeley
Tier 3: NYU, Emory, Tufts, Carnegie Mellon, UVA, Michigan, Boston College, USC, UCLA, UNC
Tier 4 (basically no national recognition, but well known in some circles): Tulane, William and Mary, top University of California campuses, Brandeis, BU.

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proteinshake

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby proteinshake » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:09 pm

Moneytrees wrote:My list would be:

Tier 1: PSYCHM
Tier 2: Columbia, Chicago, Duke, Penn
Tier 3: Dartmouth, Cornell, Vanderbilt, Brown, Rice, Notre Dame, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, Georgetown, WUSTL, UC Berkeley
Tier 3: NYU, Emory, Tufts, Carnegie Mellon, UVA, Michigan, Boston College, USC, UCLA, UNC
Tier 4 (basically no national recognition, but well known in some circles): Tulane, William and Mary, top University of California campuses, Brandeis, BU.

seems right.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Rigo » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:12 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:
Rigo wrote:
star fox wrote:Would you be ok with someone from BC saying they went to a "prestigious" school?

Id 100% roll my eyes.
I'd be impressed by Williams or Amherst though but I'm not sure if those LAC's have much prestige beyond the northeast.

They absolutely do among the top-colleges crowd.

I often think about how my life would be different if I took Amherst over cheap state school from a networking prospective. It's nice being debt free (until LS) though.
Glad my parents put their foot down in retrospect obviously, but I definitely have the what if's.

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star fox

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby star fox » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:13 pm

By the time you get to Tier 4 aren't you essentially in "basically the same as any other school" territory?

canigraduatealready?

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby canigraduatealready? » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:15 pm

My personal system for UG rankings:
1. Schools that have good financial aid
2. Need blind schools with okay financial aid
3. Everyone else

Hikikomorist

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Hikikomorist » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:15 pm

Moneytrees wrote:My list would be:

Tier 1: PSYCHM
Tier 2: Columbia, Chicago, Duke, Penn
Tier 3: Dartmouth, Cornell, Vanderbilt, Brown, Rice, Notre Dame, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, Georgetown, WUSTL, UC Berkeley
Tier 3: NYU, Emory, Tufts, Carnegie Mellon, UVA, Michigan, Boston College, USC, UCLA, UNC
Tier 4 (basically no national recognition, but well known in some circles): Tulane, William and Mary, top University of California campuses, Brandeis, BU.

Object to UNC and Tulane. Pretty sure Tulane is viewed as having negative prestige in most parts of the country. UNC has declined from a decade ago, or other top public schools have left it behind, to the extent that it's basically on par with UT/UI/other okay state schools. At the very least, there's no way it's better than W&M.

Moneytrees

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Moneytrees » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:19 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:My list would be:

Tier 1: PSYCHM
Tier 2: Columbia, Chicago, Duke, Penn
Tier 3: Dartmouth, Cornell, Vanderbilt, Brown, Rice, Notre Dame, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, Georgetown, WUSTL, UC Berkeley
Tier 3: NYU, Emory, Tufts, Carnegie Mellon, UVA, Michigan, Boston College, USC, UCLA, UNC
Tier 4 (basically no national recognition, but well known in some circles): Tulane, William and Mary, top University of California campuses, Brandeis, BU.

Object to UNC and Tulane. Pretty sure Tulane is viewed as having negative prestige in most parts of the country. UNC has declined from a decade ago, or other top public schools have left it behind, to the extent that it's basically on par with UT/UI/other okay state schools. At the very least, there's no way it's better than W&M.


I guess it depends on if we're talking about lay prestige or academic strength of the schools. UNC is still pretty recognized and has brand name appeal, but yeah I would agree that there isn't much that differentiates UNC from the schools in tier 4 when it comes to academics. I personally had never heard of Tulane growing up but when I worked on the east coast the name kept popping up.

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guynourmin

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby guynourmin » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:22 pm

Rigo wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
Rigo wrote:
star fox wrote:Would you be ok with someone from BC saying they went to a "prestigious" school?

Id 100% roll my eyes.
I'd be impressed by Williams or Amherst though but I'm not sure if those LAC's have much prestige beyond the northeast.

They absolutely do among the top-colleges crowd.

I often think about how my life would be different if I took Amherst over cheap state school from a networking prospective. It's nice being debt free (until LS) though.
Glad my parents put their foot down in retrospect obviously, but I definitely have the what if's.


seriously so thankful for that one. My parents were out of pocket quite a bit for my UG, but I was looking at even more expensive ones and I remember my mom saying, well if I'm paying X and you're still going to be $60,000 in debt, I'm just not going to pay anything, because when you're 22 trying to service $60k and 130k+ is going to be equally as difficult and its cheaper for me. I think the last few years would have been so much harder.

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Hikikomorist » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:23 pm

Moneytrees wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:My list would be:

Tier 1: PSYCHM
Tier 2: Columbia, Chicago, Duke, Penn
Tier 3: Dartmouth, Cornell, Vanderbilt, Brown, Rice, Notre Dame, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, Georgetown, WUSTL, UC Berkeley
Tier 3: NYU, Emory, Tufts, Carnegie Mellon, UVA, Michigan, Boston College, USC, UCLA, UNC
Tier 4 (basically no national recognition, but well known in some circles): Tulane, William and Mary, top University of California campuses, Brandeis, BU.

Object to UNC and Tulane. Pretty sure Tulane is viewed as having negative prestige in most parts of the country. UNC has declined from a decade ago, or other top public schools have left it behind, to the extent that it's basically on par with UT/UI/other okay state schools. At the very least, there's no way it's better than W&M.


I guess it depends on if we're talking about lay prestige or academic strength of the schools. UNC is still pretty recognized and has brand name appeal, but yeah I would agree that there isn't much that differentiates UNC from the schools in tier 4 when it comes to academics. I personally had never heard of Tulane growing up but when I worked on the east coast the name kept popping up.

Pretty sure that's just a peculiar personal bubble you've got going there. Spent time on the East Coast and in the South and have never gotten the impression Tulane is at all prestigious.

Rigo

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Rigo » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:24 pm

Not to mention my GPA would probably be more fucked so 8)

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby Hikikomorist » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:25 pm

guybourdin wrote:
Rigo wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
Rigo wrote:
star fox wrote:Would you be ok with someone from BC saying they went to a "prestigious" school?

Id 100% roll my eyes.
I'd be impressed by Williams or Amherst though but I'm not sure if those LAC's have much prestige beyond the northeast.

They absolutely do among the top-colleges crowd.

I often think about how my life would be different if I took Amherst over cheap state school from a networking prospective. It's nice being debt free (until LS) though.
Glad my parents put their foot down in retrospect obviously, but I definitely have the what if's.


seriously so thankful for that one. My parents were out of pocket quite a bit for my UG, but I was looking at even more expensive ones and I remember my mom saying, well if I'm paying X and you're still going to be $60,000 in debt, I'm just not going to pay anything, because when you're 22 trying to service $60k and 130k+ is going to be equally as difficult and its cheaper for me. I think the last few years would have been so much harder.

My mind drifts to wondering about this a fair amount (less recently, though). Yeah, it's nice to have no UG debt, but I wonder if I would have taken college more seriously if I had been motivated by higher-scoring peers coupled with debt. Guess my final evaluation will depend on how much I dis/like the legal profession.

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star fox

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby star fox » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:28 pm

Rigo wrote:Not to mention my GPA would probably be more fucked so 8)

Are any of the prestigious schools actually rigorous? I thought they were all guilty of rampant grade inflation.

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PrezRand

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby PrezRand » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:30 pm

The TLS prestige bubble is funny

LurkerTurnedMember

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby LurkerTurnedMember » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:30 pm

Based on peer assessment, research power (including faculty and faculty citations), and all rankings considered (both national and international, and bith UG and graduate programs which do make up the university as a whole), while removing dumb measurements (i.e., how much money do you have, how many chairs in your library do you have, etc):

Tier 1: U of Chi, Princeton, Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Stanford, Berkeley, MIT.

Tier 2: Brown, Cornell, Duke, U of Penn, john hopkins, Dartmouth, Cal Institute of Technology, Northwestern.

Tier 3: Notre Dame, Rice, Vandy, WashU, Emory, Georgetown.
Last edited by LurkerTurnedMember on Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

grades??

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Re: 2018 USNWR Rankings

Postby grades?? » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:31 pm

star fox wrote:
Rigo wrote:Not to mention my GPA would probably be more fucked so 8)

Are any of the prestigious schools actually rigorous? I thought they were all guilty of rampant grade inflation.


A lot of the top LAC's don't grade inflate. Not nearly anywhere close to the grade inflation at Harvard College for example.



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