International student, 161, should I give up?

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x595

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International student, 161, should I give up?

Postby x595 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:01 am

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Last edited by x595 on Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

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pleasesendhelp

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Re: International student, 161, should I give up?

Postby pleasesendhelp » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:54 pm

Have you considered other states? A 161/AA gives you a chance at a decent number of T1 schools that could offer sizable scholarships that in turn can be used to negotiate more money at schools you want to go to. I would send out more applications and see how things work out this cycle as there's still time (though not much) to broaden your options. If you are dead set on choosing A or B, then I would suggest B. Getting into the top 10% is not easy as everyone at that school is trying to be at the top 10% and if you're lacking confidence now, and you've never studied in the states, it'll be even more difficult without a support system. I would like to encourage you to not limit yourself to those two choices. Focus on increasing your options. 161 is not a bad score at all, so dont sell yourself short.

grades??

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Re: International student, 161, should I give up?

Postby grades?? » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:57 pm

You should probably not go, especially if you aren't a citizen. Usually international students need a sponsor to stay (if the status quo of the visa system stays, but it might be even harder under Trump). The places that sponsor are biglaw firms. You wont get into a law school that gives you a decent chance of landing a big law job and thus sponsorship. Sorry, but law school isn't for everyone and in your case I am sure you could be doing something other than law. Best of luck.

Also, you will have a hard time placing in the top 10% of any class if your english is not strong. Your post has a few things that show you aren't a native speaker and you will struggle with the precision of language in law school PLUS the internal pressure of having to place top 10% and that you haven't ever studied in the US before. Truthfully you should not attend.

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Re: International student, 161, should I give up?

Postby Npret » Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:08 pm

x595 wrote:Native Chinese.

I'd like to retake but it is impossible within 2 years.(153-157-161). GPA:AA
Applied to a dozen of schools located in NYC, DC, CA.

Highly considering going to cardozo because of full ride, location, and great intellectual property program ( I know that ranking doesn't mean a lot though). I know how slight my chance would be to go to big law, especially as a Chinese who has never studied abroad yet.
161 is not good to me at all, I pretested from 160-170, I think I can work hard and score higher but I am also afraid of waiting for another 2 years.
I think so far my choices are :
A. Going to cardozo with 29K/yr COL, which is afforable but still not a small number for my family. →Study my ass of and get into Top 10% or even better (I am also not confident enough because I don't know how extremely hard I must study to make my English more solid to weaken my disadvantage in language)→Be lucky enough ( in interviews and h1b visa)
B. Do not go. I didn't get high scores but i still studied hard for lsat and put a lot of effort in application. I hate to give up but this seems to be a choice, the path is really vague for me if I want to work in U.S.

I'd appreciate it if there is any advice and helpful information. Thanks.


These are your only 2 choices?
At any rate you can't depend on transferring so that's a bad plan.

You will need a H1B visa and that is difficult because the process is complicated, expensive and random. There are many companies that sponsor visas for reasons other than law, but you can't depend on getting one.

If you marry a US citizen you won't need an H1B visa to work. That's likely your easiest path to working in the US right now.

Your plan is not likely to succeed.

What are your other options?

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melmelcoolj

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Re: International student, 161, should I give up?

Postby melmelcoolj » Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:23 pm

I will be brutally honest. I feel like any school that does not give you a good shot at BigLaw is probably not worth the time. The reason is that only biglaw firms sponsor H1b, and have overseas offices that can get you an L1 visa if you don't win the H1b lottery.

Since I assume law school is a big investment and working in China afterwards will not give you the kind of return that warrants this kind of investment, you should reconsider. Retake till you get a 170 and get into a T14 school.

The chances of you placing into the top 10% at any law school is slim, because you have never studied abroad and probably are unfamiliar with the system here. I am also native Chinese and I don't mean to discourage you, but this is what I tell myself.

x595

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Re: International student, 161, should I give up?

Postby x595 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:20 am

Thank you guys so much.
I would like to retake LSAT so badly but that means I gotta wait until the June of 2018, and I will turn to almost 25 by then, which is one thing I am concerned about. There may be options like marrying US citizen so that I don't need an H1B visa to work there, but to be honest I don't want to depend on marriage to built my career at least atm.
I was major in engineering so I am seriously considering patent field. I am wondering is it a different game if I have an engineering degree?

x595

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Re: International student, 161, should I give up?

Postby x595 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:23 am

pleasesendhelp wrote:Have you considered other states? A 161/AA gives you a chance at a decent number of T1 schools that could offer sizable scholarships that in turn can be used to negotiate more money at schools you want to go to. I would send out more applications and see how things work out this cycle as there's still time (though not much) to broaden your options. If you are dead set on choosing A or B, then I would suggest B. Getting into the top 10% is not easy as everyone at that school is trying to be at the top 10% and if you're lacking confidence now, and you've never studied in the states, it'll be even more difficult without a support system. I would like to encourage you to not limit yourself to those two choices. Focus on increasing your options. 161 is not a bad score at all, so dont sell yourself short.


Thank you so much friend.
I applied to other T20-T30s or Tier 1s( BC, UIUC, UF, UCI, Fordham and Hastings etc)about a month ago, so far I've also heard from Tulane($$~30k/yr) and U of Miami($$~38k/yr). I am still waiting for others. I only listed these two options above because I assumed I wouldn't get so much $$ as Cardozo offered me, which means if I want to minimize the cost maybe Cardozo would be a good option for me since T14 or even T20 may be totally shut down for me.

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togoornottogo

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Re: International student, 161, should I give up?

Postby togoornottogo » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:56 am

What concerns you about being 25 and the LSAT/Law School? Many Law Students don't start until 25/26 now, it's normal and likely an advantage when it comes to hiring. Also, it will help you raise some much needed cash for living expenses. I'll be starting LS a hair before my 25th birthday, really not a big deal.

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Re: International student, 161, should I give up?

Postby Rigo » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:54 am

Just wanted to pop in and say I'll be 27 when I start law school and a lot of my friends were older when they started, so no, 25/26 is not too old.

x595

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Re: International student, 161, should I give up?

Postby x595 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:57 am

I understand there are many people attending law schools after 25 y.o. and I personally don't think it's bad at all. Age is just a personal issue for me and my family that is kinda hard to explain.

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Future Ex-Engineer

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Re: International student, 161, should I give up?

Postby Future Ex-Engineer » Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:24 am

x595 wrote:I understand there are many people attending law schools after 25 y.o. and I personally don't think it's bad at all. Age is just a personal issue for me and my family that is kinda hard to explain.


Are we talking Benjamin Button issues here or what? TBF your age/accomplishments/etc are no one's business (family included) but your own. If your family wouldn't be happy/proud/etc of you if you didn't start LS until 25, screw em. At some point you'll have to make a break from them anyway to become your own person.

FWIW, I'm 25 and am just now considering going. Might even sit a year to retake and break into 170+ depending on how $$$ comes out this cycle

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dm1683

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Re: International student, 161, should I give up?

Postby dm1683 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:24 pm

mrgstephe wrote:
x595 wrote:I understand there are many people attending law schools after 25 y.o. and I personally don't think it's bad at all. Age is just a personal issue for me and my family that is kinda hard to explain.


Are we talking Benjamin Button issues here or what? TBF your age/accomplishments/etc are no one's business (family included) but your own. If your family wouldn't be happy/proud/etc of you if you didn't start LS until 25, screw em. At some point you'll have to make a break from them anyway to become your own person.

FWIW, I'm 25 and am just now considering going. Might even sit a year to retake and break into 170+ depending on how $$$ comes out this cycle


East Asians have a very different relationship with family members than we Americans do. It might not be easy for OP, given his cultural background, to tell his parents to F off.

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Future Ex-Engineer

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Re: International student, 161, should I give up?

Postby Future Ex-Engineer » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:28 pm

dm1683 wrote:
mrgstephe wrote:
x595 wrote:I understand there are many people attending law schools after 25 y.o. and I personally don't think it's bad at all. Age is just a personal issue for me and my family that is kinda hard to explain.


Are we talking Benjamin Button issues here or what? TBF your age/accomplishments/etc are no one's business (family included) but your own. If your family wouldn't be happy/proud/etc of you if you didn't start LS until 25, screw em. At some point you'll have to make a break from them anyway to become your own person.

FWIW, I'm 25 and am just now considering going. Might even sit a year to retake and break into 170+ depending on how $$$ comes out this cycle


East Asians have a very different relationship with family members than we Americans do. It might not be easy for OP, given his cultural background, to tell his parents to F off.


I am aware that it is different, but at some point if OP wants to become established as a lawyer in the US and their family remains in Asia, they will have to break ties eventually. No way a NYC biglaw lawyer has the time or flexibility to keep that sort of consistent contact with family in such a vastly different timezone.

It'll be a growing pain, and definitely not easy, but at some point if this is their goal, I'd expect it is a decision that will have to be made. Better to do it now IMO than when they're 30 and disappointed that they never got the chance to make a name for themselves. But then again, I'm American and didn't grow up in that system, so take my words with as much importance as you want to put on them.

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dm1683

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Re: International student, 161, should I give up?

Postby dm1683 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:38 pm

mrgstephe wrote:
dm1683 wrote:
mrgstephe wrote:
x595 wrote:I understand there are many people attending law schools after 25 y.o. and I personally don't think it's bad at all. Age is just a personal issue for me and my family that is kinda hard to explain.


Are we talking Benjamin Button issues here or what? TBF your age/accomplishments/etc are no one's business (family included) but your own. If your family wouldn't be happy/proud/etc of you if you didn't start LS until 25, screw em. At some point you'll have to make a break from them anyway to become your own person.

FWIW, I'm 25 and am just now considering going. Might even sit a year to retake and break into 170+ depending on how $$$ comes out this cycle


East Asians have a very different relationship with family members than we Americans do. It might not be easy for OP, given his cultural background, to tell his parents to F off.


I am aware that it is different, but at some point if OP wants to become established as a lawyer in the US and their family remains in Asia, they will have to break ties eventually. No way a NYC biglaw lawyer has the time or flexibility to keep that sort of consistent contact with family in such a vastly different timezone.

It'll be a growing pain, and definitely not easy, but at some point if this is their goal, I'd expect it is a decision that will have to be made. Better to do it now IMO than when they're 30 and disappointed that they never got the chance to make a name for themselves. But then again, I'm American and didn't grow up in that system, so take my words with as much importance as you want to put on them.


Well put - very true. It's clear OP has a lot of thinking to do.

x595

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Re: International student, 161, should I give up?

Postby x595 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:35 pm

dm1683 wrote:
mrgstephe wrote:
dm1683 wrote:
mrgstephe wrote:
x595 wrote:I understand there are many people attending law schools after 25 y.o. and I personally don't think it's bad at all. Age is just a personal issue for me and my family that is kinda hard to explain.


Are we talking Benjamin Button issues here or what? TBF your age/accomplishments/etc are no one's business (family included) but your own. If your family wouldn't be happy/proud/etc of you if you didn't start LS until 25, screw em. At some point you'll have to make a break from them anyway to become your own person.

FWIW, I'm 25 and am just now considering going. Might even sit a year to retake and break into 170+ depending on how $$$ comes out this cycle


East Asians have a very different relationship with family members than we Americans do. It might not be easy for OP, given his cultural background, to tell his parents to F off.


I am aware that it is different, but at some point if OP wants to become established as a lawyer in the US and their family remains in Asia, they will have to break ties eventually. No way a NYC biglaw lawyer has the time or flexibility to keep that sort of consistent contact with family in such a vastly different timezone.

It'll be a growing pain, and definitely not easy, but at some point if this is their goal, I'd expect it is a decision that will have to be made. Better to do it now IMO than when they're 30 and disappointed that they never got the chance to make a name for themselves. But then again, I'm American and didn't grow up in that system, so take my words with as much importance as you want to put on them.


Well put - very true. It's clear OP has a lot of thinking to do.


Yes it is hard to just tell my family to F off (and I don't want to either). And in this system it may even be different for women. I personally don't care if there is an appropriate age for finding an significant other,marriage,LS etc. What's more, my family didn't really interfere with it. It's just my personal concern and like I said, it is really hard to break it down.
Anyway thank you guys for posting and I really appreciate it when people reply based on my cultural background. I agree I should think over if my goal is big law and I will. Again, thanks a lot.



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