Stop Telling People to Retake

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jjcorvino
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Re: Stop Telling People to Retake

Postby jjcorvino » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:47 pm

MarkinKansasCity wrote:
SweetTort wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:Heres my solution to reduce the retake harassment on here.

Lets just limit retake advice to the what are my chances" thread. People present their numbers and options and people judge accordingly. There is no reason for people to present their numbers in the "choosing a law school" thread as presenting ones numbers just gives people an excuse not to answer the question. If people stop giving their numbers when theyre not needed, people will be more likely to answer the question and lay off the rude retake/reapply bullying which often isnt even neccessary. After a while we can hopefully get more of a diverse population thats less dominated by T14(T13) kids who have very different goals(and thus metrics for success) than the vast majority of law school applicants.

Lets make a friendlier forum where everyone is welcome and people can get advice from people in different situations not just the objectively elite!



If you want this, just make a "mediocre law schools" or "shitty law schools" forum. This forum is called top law schools-- clearly we're gonna talk about top law schools.


www.best-law-schools-i-could-get-into-without-retaking.com


Www.life-crippling-debt.com

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MarkinKansasCity
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Re: Stop Telling People to Retake

Postby MarkinKansasCity » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:48 pm

Baby Gaga wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
SweetTort wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:Heres my solution to reduce the retake harassment on here.

Lets just limit retake advice to the what are my chances" thread. People present their numbers and options and people judge accordingly. There is no reason for people to present their numbers in the "choosing a law school" thread as presenting ones numbers just gives people an excuse not to answer the question. If people stop giving their numbers when theyre not needed, people will be more likely to answer the question and lay off the rude retake/reapply bullying which often isnt even neccessary. After a while we can hopefully get more of a diverse population thats less dominated by T14(T13) kids who have very different goals(and thus metrics for success) than the vast majority of law school applicants.

Lets make a friendlier forum where everyone is welcome and people can get advice from people in different situations not just the objectively elite!



If you want this, just make a "mediocre law schools" or "shitty law schools" forum. This forum is called top law schools-- clearly we're gonna talk about top law schools.


www.best-law-schools-i-could-get-into-without-retaking.com


I think your link is broken Mark. I really want to check out this kindler gentler forum


Apparently the mods have word filtered the third tier reality blog, which really ruined my joke.

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Big Red
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Re: Stop Telling People to Retake

Postby Big Red » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:50 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:After a while we can hopefully get more of a diverse population thats less dominated by T14(T13) kids who have very different goals(and thus metrics for success) than the vast majority of law school applicants.


Unless your goal is unemployment, of course you're going to get pushback when you're showing us two schools where one in three people graduate w/o a job. Usually these students with different "metrics for success" are told to retake and grab a full ride - doesn't take much more than a 165 to do so. The tone on here can be a bit nasty, but it's an occupational hazard so STFU and retake

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Baby Gaga
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Re: Stop Telling People to Retake

Postby Baby Gaga » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:53 pm

MarkinKansasCity wrote:
Baby Gaga wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
SweetTort wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:Heres my solution to reduce the retake harassment on here.

Lets just limit retake advice to the what are my chances" thread. People present their numbers and options and people judge accordingly. There is no reason for people to present their numbers in the "choosing a law school" thread as presenting ones numbers just gives people an excuse not to answer the question. If people stop giving their numbers when theyre not needed, people will be more likely to answer the question and lay off the rude retake/reapply bullying which often isnt even neccessary. After a while we can hopefully get more of a diverse population thats less dominated by T14(T13) kids who have very different goals(and thus metrics for success) than the vast majority of law school applicants.

Lets make a friendlier forum where everyone is welcome and people can get advice from people in different situations not just the objectively elite!



If you want this, just make a "mediocre law schools" or "shitty law schools" forum. This forum is called top law schools-- clearly we're gonna talk about top law schools.


www.best-law-schools-i-could-get-into-without-retaking.com


I think your link is broken Mark. I really want to check out this kindler gentler forum


Apparently the mods have word filtered the third tier reality blog, which really ruined my joke.


yeah thirdtier reality becomes T14Paradise. I appreciate your joke tho

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Stop Telling People to Retake

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:00 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:Heres my solution to reduce the retake harassment on here.

Lets just limit retake advice to the what are my chances" thread. People present their numbers and options and people judge accordingly. There is no reason for people to present their numbers in the "choosing a law school" thread as presenting ones numbers just gives people an excuse not to answer the question. If people stop giving their numbers when theyre not needed, people will be more likely to answer the question and lay off the rude retake/reapply bullying which often isnt even neccessary. After a while we can hopefully get more of a diverse population thats less dominated by T14(T13) kids who have very different goals(and thus metrics for success) than the vast majority of law school applicants.

Lets make a friendlier forum where everyone is welcome and people can get advice from people in different situations not just the objectively elite!

Everyone is welcome here, and plenty of us didn't go to T14 schools. And if people are clear about their goals, then posters here respond accordingly. If those goals don't match their options, people should know that. In the end it's still down to the individual person to decide what kind of risk they want to take wrt cost and debt and employment options.

So really the problem isn't telling posters to retake. It's people having unrealistic expectations about what they can achieve with a given degree. It's fine for someone to take out acres of debt for a Cal Western degree if they really decide they understand all the risks and are willing to take them. It's their life and TLS is just a bunch of strangers on the internet. The problem is that a lot of people making those choices don't actually understand the risks they face, whether through lack of knowledge of how law school/legal hiring/debt/etc works, or through confirmation bias and wishful thinking.

The thing is, someone's best option still may not give them a good chance of achieving what they want to achieve out of law school. The appropriate response to such a person isn't "take the best of your options," it's "find a different option."

(I say this as someone who would be told a gazillion times to retake if I was posting about my choices now. And I have had an objectively really good outcome from my not-top school. But I still should have retaken. I'd probably have still gone to the school I chose, because I had personal reasons for being in that location, but I could have gone without debt, or with less debt, which would have made my outcome better. And I wouldn't tell someone to gamble the way I did.)

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jjcorvino
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Re: Stop Telling People to Retake

Postby jjcorvino » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:02 pm

Wait is there really a forum that is high on TTT schools that is blocked here?

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Ferrisjso
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Re: Stop Telling People to Retake

Postby Ferrisjso » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:04 pm

SweetTort wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:Heres my solution to reduce the retake harassment on here.

Lets just limit retake advice to the what are my chances" thread. People present their numbers and options and people judge accordingly. There is no reason for people to present their numbers in the "choosing a law school" thread as presenting ones numbers just gives people an excuse not to answer the question. If people stop giving their numbers when theyre not needed, people will be more likely to answer the question and lay off the rude retake/reapply bullying which often isnt even neccessary. After a while we can hopefully get more of a diverse population thats less dominated by T14(T13) kids who have very different goals(and thus metrics for success) than the vast majority of law school applicants.

Lets make a friendlier forum where everyone is welcome and people can get advice from people in different situations not just the objectively elite!



If you want this, just make a "mediocre law schools" or "shitty law schools" forum. This forum is called top law schools-- clearly we're gonna talk about top law schools.


Yeah, that line's just BS, the site made profiles for the Top 100 schools(and also has profiles for even TTT's and TTTT's), so clearly the intent behind the name was not the same as what you think it was. Damm went to take a run and had 11 responses, wow.
Last edited by Ferrisjso on Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Stylnator
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Re: Stop Telling People to Retake

Postby Stylnator » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:06 pm

Moneytrees wrote:Re-take is absolutely the right advice for the vast majority of people. I was totally against re-taking when I was 21; I had basically resigned myself to my 163 and figured that was the best I could do. TLS eventually changed my mind, I re-took the LSAT twice (3 times total), and even though I didn't improve as much as I would have liked, I ended up getting a sizeable scholarship to a T20. Eventually landed an SA position in my target market.

An improvement of even 1 or 2 points on the LSAT can be life-changing.


fuck

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MarkinKansasCity
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Re: Stop Telling People to Retake

Postby MarkinKansasCity » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:09 pm

jjcorvino wrote:Wait is there really a forum that is high on TTT schools that is blocked here?


Google third tier reality.

I wouldn't really say that it is "high on TTT schools," but the author certainly focuses on TTT schools.

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star fox
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Re: Stop Telling People to Retake

Postby star fox » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:10 pm

MarkinKansasCity wrote:
jjcorvino wrote:Wait is there really a forum that is high on TTT schools that is blocked here?


Google third tier reality.

I wouldn't really say that it is "high on TTT schools," but the author certainly focuses on TTT schools.

and pictures of feces...

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Stop Telling People to Retake

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:10 pm

Yeah, the scamblogs make us all look like cheerleaders.

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Ferrisjso
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Re: Stop Telling People to Retake

Postby Ferrisjso » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:19 pm

He also does TT and T1 schools also, I think he's even done profiles on some of the T14(I know he hasn't done Yale). Yes, people on here are more positive than that, but I'd say you're not setting the bar very high if you're standard for politeness is not taking photos of **** to describe people's schools. Like alot of people here though I feel like he has good intentions he just took them way to far,(too many law schools being accredited, excess student debt, to many lawyers for a shrinking market are all issues that merit attention). I actually find his reporting on the whole InfiLaw fiasco to be quite insightful.

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Re: Stop Telling People to Retake

Postby somedeadman » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:26 pm

MarkinKansasCity wrote:
jjcorvino wrote:Wait is there really a forum that is high on TTT schools that is blocked here?


Google third tier reality.

I wouldn't really say that it is "high on TTT schools," but the author certainly focuses on TTT schools.

I get the gist of the blog, but isn't it an exaggeration to say "only go if you get into a top 8 law school with scholarship?"

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Re: Stop Telling People to Retake

Postby MarkinKansasCity » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:28 pm

somedeadman wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
jjcorvino wrote:Wait is there really a forum that is high on TTT schools that is blocked here?


Google third tier reality.

I wouldn't really say that it is "high on TTT schools," but the author certainly focuses on TTT schools.

I get the gist of the blog, but isn't it an exaggeration to say "only go if you get into a top 8 law school with scholarship?"


To be fair, he states that either a T8 school or a full scholarship would be acceptable.

MY GOAL IS TO INFORM POTENTIAL LAW SCHOOL STUDENTS AND APPLICANTS OF THE UGLY REALITIES OF ATTENDING LAW SCHOOL. DO NOT ATTEND UNLESS: (1) YOU GET INTO A TOP 8 LAW SCHOOL ON SCHOLARSHIP; (2) YOU GET A FULL-TUITION SCHOLARSHIP TO ATTEND; (3) YOU HAVE EMPLOYMENT AS AN ATTORNEY SECURED THROUGH A RELATIVE OR CLOSE FRIEND; OR (4) YOU ARE FULLY AWARE BEFOREHAND THAT YOUR HUGE INVESTMENT IN TIME, ENERGY, AND MONEY DOES NOT, IN ANY WAY, GUARANTEE A JOB AS AN ATTORNEY OR IN THE LEGAL INDUSTRY.

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jjcorvino
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Re: Stop Telling People to Retake

Postby jjcorvino » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:33 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:He also does TT and T1 schools also, I think he's even done profiles on some of the T14(I know he hasn't done Yale). Yes, people on here are more positive than that, but I'd say you're not setting the bar very high if you're standard for politeness is not taking photos of **** to describe people's schools. Like alot of people here though I feel like he has good intentions he just took them way to far,(too many law schools being accredited, excess student debt, to many lawyers for a shrinking market are all issues that merit attention). I actually find his reporting on the whole InfiLaw fiasco to be quite insightful.


You are confusing people here talking about the realities of law school outcomes with us calling schools trash. I don't think I have ever seen someone call a T2 school and up trash here. People here have even advocated for some people to go to T3 schools if the situation warrants it. When someone comes into a thread and says "I want big law in NY, which of these 4 T3 schools should I attend at sticker?", the answer is to not go to school. That isn't us trashing the schools, it is just reality.

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zot1
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Re: Stop Telling People to Retake

Postby zot1 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:34 pm

Retake.

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star fox
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Re: Stop Telling People to Retake

Postby star fox » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:35 pm

Too much Caps really takes away the effect of it

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Re: Stop Telling People to Retake

Postby somedeadman » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:37 pm

MarkinKansasCity wrote:
somedeadman wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
jjcorvino wrote:Wait is there really a forum that is high on TTT schools that is blocked here?


Google third tier reality.

I wouldn't really say that it is "high on TTT schools," but the author certainly focuses on TTT schools.

I get the gist of the blog, but isn't it an exaggeration to say "only go if you get into a top 8 law school with scholarship?"


To be fair, he states that either a T8 school or a full scholarship would be acceptable.

MY GOAL IS TO INFORM POTENTIAL LAW SCHOOL STUDENTS AND APPLICANTS OF THE UGLY REALITIES OF ATTENDING LAW SCHOOL. DO NOT ATTEND UNLESS: (1) YOU GET INTO A TOP 8 LAW SCHOOL ON SCHOLARSHIP; (2) YOU GET A FULL-TUITION SCHOLARSHIP TO ATTEND; (3) YOU HAVE EMPLOYMENT AS AN ATTORNEY SECURED THROUGH A RELATIVE OR CLOSE FRIEND; OR (4) YOU ARE FULLY AWARE BEFOREHAND THAT YOUR HUGE INVESTMENT IN TIME, ENERGY, AND MONEY DOES NOT, IN ANY WAY, GUARANTEE A JOB AS AN ATTORNEY OR IN THE LEGAL INDUSTRY.


NU and Duke aren't worth it unless they are free lol. Like I said, I get the intent, but it's bordering on ridiculous

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Ferrisjso
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Re: Stop Telling People to Retake

Postby Ferrisjso » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:41 pm

jjcorvino wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:He also does TT and T1 schools also, I think he's even done profiles on some of the T14(I know he hasn't done Yale). Yes, people on here are more positive than that, but I'd say you're not setting the bar very high if you're standard for politeness is not taking photos of **** to describe people's schools. Like alot of people here though I feel like he has good intentions he just took them way to far,(too many law schools being accredited, excess student debt, to many lawyers for a shrinking market are all issues that merit attention). I actually find his reporting on the whole InfiLaw fiasco to be quite insightful.


You are confusing people here talking about the realities of law school outcomes with us calling schools trash. I don't think I have ever seen someone call a T2 school and up trash here. People here have even advocated for some people to go to T3 schools if the situation warrants it. When someone comes into a thread and says "I want big law in NY, which of these 4 T3 schools should I attend at sticker?", the answer is to not go to school. That isn't us trashing the schools, it is just reality.


That isn't the majority of cases on here, and you know it(if it was, I would be in 100% agreement with you).

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Stop Telling People to Retake

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:42 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:He also does TT and T1 schools also, I think he's even done profiles on some of the T14(I know he hasn't done Yale). Yes, people on here are more positive than that, but I'd say you're not setting the bar very high if you're standard for politeness is not taking photos of **** to describe people's schools. Like alot of people here though I feel like he has good intentions he just took them way to far,(too many law schools being accredited, excess student debt, to many lawyers for a shrinking market are all issues that merit attention). I actually find his reporting on the whole InfiLaw fiasco to be quite insightful.

I didn't claim people here were polite. Just helpful.

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Re: Stop Telling People to Retake

Postby star fox » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:44 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:
jjcorvino wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:He also does TT and T1 schools also, I think he's even done profiles on some of the T14(I know he hasn't done Yale). Yes, people on here are more positive than that, but I'd say you're not setting the bar very high if you're standard for politeness is not taking photos of **** to describe people's schools. Like alot of people here though I feel like he has good intentions he just took them way to far,(too many law schools being accredited, excess student debt, to many lawyers for a shrinking market are all issues that merit attention). I actually find his reporting on the whole InfiLaw fiasco to be quite insightful.


You are confusing people here talking about the realities of law school outcomes with us calling schools trash. I don't think I have ever seen someone call a T2 school and up trash here. People here have even advocated for some people to go to T3 schools if the situation warrants it. When someone comes into a thread and says "I want big law in NY, which of these 4 T3 schools should I attend at sticker?", the answer is to not go to school. That isn't us trashing the schools, it is just reality.


That isn't the majority of cases on here, and you know it(if it was, I would be in 100% agreement with you).

The less clear someone is in their "plan" the more I just throw them into -> will probably do BigLaw if they can get it. It's just how it goes most of the time. Lots of people start out as "maybe something PI or government but not really sure, gonna keep my options open" and then fast forward two years later to the start of 3L and they've accepted an offer to return to the firm they Summered with.

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Re: Stop Telling People to Retake

Postby waldorf » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:45 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:
jjcorvino wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:He also does TT and T1 schools also, I think he's even done profiles on some of the T14(I know he hasn't done Yale). Yes, people on here are more positive than that, but I'd say you're not setting the bar very high if you're standard for politeness is not taking photos of **** to describe people's schools. Like alot of people here though I feel like he has good intentions he just took them way to far,(too many law schools being accredited, excess student debt, to many lawyers for a shrinking market are all issues that merit attention). I actually find his reporting on the whole InfiLaw fiasco to be quite insightful.


You are confusing people here talking about the realities of law school outcomes with us calling schools trash. I don't think I have ever seen someone call a T2 school and up trash here. People here have even advocated for some people to go to T3 schools if the situation warrants it. When someone comes into a thread and says "I want big law in NY, which of these 4 T3 schools should I attend at sticker?", the answer is to not go to school. That isn't us trashing the schools, it is just reality.


That isn't the majority of cases on here, and you know it(if it was, I would be in 100% agreement with you).


You have too thin of skin for law school.

You don't like the advice you've been given. Cool. Get. Over. It.

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jjcorvino
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Re: Stop Telling People to Retake

Postby jjcorvino » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:48 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:
jjcorvino wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:He also does TT and T1 schools also, I think he's even done profiles on some of the T14(I know he hasn't done Yale). Yes, people on here are more positive than that, but I'd say you're not setting the bar very high if you're standard for politeness is not taking photos of **** to describe people's schools. Like alot of people here though I feel like he has good intentions he just took them way to far,(too many law schools being accredited, excess student debt, to many lawyers for a shrinking market are all issues that merit attention). I actually find his reporting on the whole InfiLaw fiasco to be quite insightful.


You are confusing people here talking about the realities of law school outcomes with us calling schools trash. I don't think I have ever seen someone call a T2 school and up trash here. People here have even advocated for some people to go to T3 schools if the situation warrants it. When someone comes into a thread and says "I want big law in NY, which of these 4 T3 schools should I attend at sticker?", the answer is to not go to school. That isn't us trashing the schools, it is just reality.


That isn't the majority of cases on here, and you know it(if it was, I would be in 100% agreement with you).


You are right, that is an exaggeration to make a point. I think the majority of threads that you are complaining about give the following general options: sticker at T1, half at T2, and full ride at T3. We generally advise people that they will not reach their goals of AUSA or biglaw if they go to the T2 or T3, and the T1 at sticker is too risky. We always advise besides T14, go to school where you want to work for the foreseeable future.

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Re: Stop Telling People to Retake

Postby Ferrisjso » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:53 pm

jjcorvino wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:
jjcorvino wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:He also does TT and T1 schools also, I think he's even done profiles on some of the T14(I know he hasn't done Yale). Yes, people on here are more positive than that, but I'd say you're not setting the bar very high if you're standard for politeness is not taking photos of **** to describe people's schools. Like alot of people here though I feel like he has good intentions he just took them way to far,(too many law schools being accredited, excess student debt, to many lawyers for a shrinking market are all issues that merit attention). I actually find his reporting on the whole InfiLaw fiasco to be quite insightful.


You are confusing people here talking about the realities of law school outcomes with us calling schools trash. I don't think I have ever seen someone call a T2 school and up trash here. People here have even advocated for some people to go to T3 schools if the situation warrants it. When someone comes into a thread and says "I want big law in NY, which of these 4 T3 schools should I attend at sticker?", the answer is to not go to school. That isn't us trashing the schools, it is just reality.


That isn't the majority of cases on here, and you know it(if it was, I would be in 100% agreement with you).


You are right, that is an exaggeration to make a point. I think the majority of threads that you are complaining about give the following general options: sticker at T1, half at T2, and full ride at T3. We generally advise people that they will not reach their goals of AUSA or biglaw if they go to the T2 or T3, and the T1 at sticker is too risky. We always advise besides T14, go to school where you want to work for the foreseeable future.


Aside from the sticker at T1(I wouldn't advise that) yeah. Also agree wholeheartedly with the last sentence.

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Re: Stop Telling People to Retake

Postby chicagoburger » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:56 pm

So today, my list comes down to UIUC and John Marshall. I have withdrawn from all other schools.
One offers a full ride, the other offers peanuts (and I won't tell you which one is which).




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