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Dropshot

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Law

Postby Dropshot » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:21 pm

Law school
Last edited by Dropshot on Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jingosaur

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Re: Advice for future college student who might want to attend law school

Postby jingosaur » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:23 pm

Major in something you find interesting. Because it is an LAC I assume you have a long time to choose a major so don't rush.

Also, get off this site for the next 3 years. And you are right about GPA/LSAT being essentially all that matters.

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Re: Advice for future college student who might want to attend law school

Postby BlendedUnicorn » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:28 pm

Do something meaningful with your life it's not too late. And have fun in college. And never use the phrase "top 5 LAC" again because nobody cares.
Last edited by BlendedUnicorn on Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mjb447

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Re: Advice for future college student who might want to attend law school

Postby mjb447 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:29 pm

I wouldn't take classes to boost your GPA for law school at least until you're certain you're going to law school, and maybe not even then. You don't really know what you'll be interested in after college (part of the fun of college is exposure to new subjects) or what the legal market will look like. Just take classes you're interested in and wait a bit to make your decision. (The subject you major in generally doesn't matter.)

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Re: Advice for future college student who might want to attend law school

Postby Johann » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:25 pm

Don't do law. The future is computer science, data analytics, engineering, and finance/business.

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arroznueve

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Re: Advice for future college student who might want to attend law school

Postby arroznueve » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:26 pm

Dropshot wrote:Hi,


Hello.

Dropshot wrote:I'm a high school senior who might be interested in law school. Is there any advice you could give to an incoming college student on how to maximize their chances? I know admissions is mostly LSAT and GPA.


Don't even think about it for the first few years of college. Seriously. That'll maximize your chances. Being focused on something you can't actually do for another five years will drive you nuts and wear you out and make everyone think you're bizarre.

Dropshot wrote:I'll be attending a top 5 LAC and majoring in something humanities-related. Would an Econ, or English, or Philosophy degree be okay? My school definitely does not have grade inflation (unlike Harvard or Yale or Brown :lol: ), and given the importance of GPA, I do wonder what the best route to take would be. Philosophy and Econ are likely harder (though I'm sure English is also rigorous), but I don't want to disregard Econ because there's a chance I might choose to work in the finance world rather than go to law school, and my school has very well-regarded and well-connected economics department, faculty, and alums.


Undeclared. If "maximizing my GPA" is how you pick a major, you aren't ready for a major. Go undeclared, take things you find interesting, figure it out. I changed my major four times. No major is better than any other for law school (yes, there are data about majors that do better and worse on the LSAT, but that's not because those majors prepare you for the LSAT as much as the fact the people drawn to and succeeding in those majors have the skills the LSAT tests), and when admissions looks at GPAs, they consider (1) where you went and (2) what you majored in. A chemical engineering major whose school's grades are as un-inflated as Tom Brady's balls can have a lower GPA than the median and be okay.

So, study what you want. Which seems to be economics, to be honest.

(And while you knock English as being less difficult, you have to remember the subjectivity to grading in English. Every major has subjectively graded courses, but English has ALL subjectively graded courses. Good luck getting consistent grades as an English major).

Dropshot wrote:Any advice? What were you doing your second semester senior year of high school? Was law school even on your mind?


The back half of my senior year of high school was spent the way all the other parts of high school were spent: trying to get girls I liked to also like me. The only difference was I was admitted to college, so I stopped trying, but I had only ever really tried my junior year and the first part of senior year because I didn't care about college until then.

Law school was not on my mind.

Which brings me to one other thing: if, and it's a huge if at your age, you do want to be a lawyer...you'd be wise to not be a K–J.D. student. After you finish your undergraduate degree, work for two years. You'll be glad you did. You'll have an improved financial position for law school, but you'll also have something on your résumé to get interviews, something to talk about at interviews, and something to reference as experience when you're in job situations. It will also really, really test if you want to go to law school, and may help you avoid making the mistake of doing something you focused in on at a young age without fully exploring the alternate paths.

Enjoy the rest of high school. Good luck!

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Re: Advice for future college student who might want to attend law school

Postby BlendedUnicorn » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:28 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:Don't do law. The future is computer science, data analytics, engineering, and finance/business.


This is legit advice. And law schools will always be willing to take your money if we're wrong.

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Re: Advice for future college student who might want to attend law school

Postby Dropshot » Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:40 pm

arroznueve wrote:
Dropshot wrote:Hi,


Hello.

Dropshot wrote:I'm a high school senior who might be interested in law school. Is there any advice you could give to an incoming college student on how to maximize their chances? I know admissions is mostly LSAT and GPA.


Don't even think about it for the first few years of college. Seriously. That'll maximize your chances. Being focused on something you can't actually do for another five years will drive you nuts and wear you out and make everyone think you're bizarre.

Dropshot wrote:I'll be attending a top 5 LAC and majoring in something humanities-related. Would an Econ, or English, or Philosophy degree be okay? My school definitely does not have grade inflation (unlike Harvard or Yale or Brown :lol: ), and given the importance of GPA, I do wonder what the best route to take would be. Philosophy and Econ are likely harder (though I'm sure English is also rigorous), but I don't want to disregard Econ because there's a chance I might choose to work in the finance world rather than go to law school, and my school has very well-regarded and well-connected economics department, faculty, and alums.


Undeclared. If "maximizing my GPA" is how you pick a major, you aren't ready for a major. Go undeclared, take things you find interesting, figure it out. I changed my major four times. No major is better than any other for law school (yes, there are data about majors that do better and worse on the LSAT, but that's not because those majors prepare you for the LSAT as much as the fact the people drawn to and succeeding in those majors have the skills the LSAT tests), and when admissions looks at GPAs, they consider (1) where you went and (2) what you majored in. A chemical engineering major whose school's grades are as un-inflated as Tom Trump Supporter Brady's balls can have a lower GPA than the median and be okay.

So, study what you want. Which seems to be economics, to be honest.

(And while you knock English as being less difficult, you have to remember the subjectivity to grading in English. Every major has subjectively graded courses, but English has ALL subjectively graded courses. Good luck getting consistent grades as an English major).


Dropshot wrote:Any advice? What were you doing your second semester senior year of high school? Was law school even on your mind?


The back half of my senior year of high school was spent the way all the other parts of high school were spent: trying to get girls I liked to also like me. The only difference was I was admitted to college, so I stopped trying, but I had only ever really tried my junior year and the first part of senior year because I didn't care about college until then.

Law school was not on my mind.

Which brings me to one other thing: if, and it's a huge if at your age, you do want to be a lawyer...you'd be wise to not be a K–J.D. student. After you finish your undergraduate degree, work for two years. You'll be glad you did. You'll have an improved financial position for law school, but you'll also have something on your résumé to get interviews, something to talk about at interviews, and something to reference as experience when you're in job situations. It will also really, really test if you want to go to law school, and may help you avoid making the mistake of doing something you focused in on at a young age without fully exploring the alternate paths.

Enjoy the rest of high school. Good luck!


Thanks for all the advice! English is actually my favorite subject, but I'm quite intimidated by college English courses due to what you just said -- their subjectivity. For me, Economics is harder, but there's less of a chance for subjective grading (you also know how to improve your grade if you're not doing up to par), so I was considering that. Plus, the fact that Economics seems slightly more versatile -> career in finance.

I actually don't know if I want to be a lawyer, though it is definitely something I'm considering. The only reason I posted here asking for advice was because I was sort of like you -- I didn't try hard until junior year, when I really, actually started caring about college. Before it seemed too distant. And that made my admissions tougher (not to toot my horn, I know where I'm going is a great school, being a top-tier LAC -- never wanted an Ivy--), perhaps not in the actual end outcome (due to, dare I say, luck), but in terms of all the pressure and stress I felt junior year and the anxiety senior year wondering whether my subpar first two years would prevent an acceptance. I'm trying to avoid the same situation for law school admissions. I've found that the more familiar I am with the process, the better prepared (hopefully) I will be.

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Re: Advice for future college student who might want to attend law school

Postby RaceJudicata » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:03 am

Enjoy your LAC. In a few years, when you quit using that hilarious phrase, you can come back (with an LSAT score) and determine if law is right for you.

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Re: Advice for future college student who might want to attend law school

Postby Dropshot » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:12 am

RaceJudicata wrote:Enjoy your LAC. In a few years, when you quit using that hilarious phrase, you can come back (with an LSAT score) and determine if law is right for you.


Sorry :oops: What are you referring to?

EDIT: Are you referring to my usage of "top-tier LAC"?

I don't want it to sound like I'm bragging, I just meant to say that despite my lack of focus the first two years of high school (to my detriment), things did work out well for me in the end, but I also have to attribute this to luck. So I'm trying to avoid not knowing the process, which was a big mistake I made during high school.

Or if you're referring to my original post, I meant to give a rough idea of what institution I will be attending -- but now I realize that undergrad reputation doesn't matter in law school admissions, or at least not to the extent of something like Wall Street recruiting.

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Re: Advice for future college student who might want to attend law school

Postby waldorf » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:39 am

Dropshot wrote:
RaceJudicata wrote:Enjoy your LAC. In a few years, when you quit using that hilarious phrase, you can come back (with an LSAT score) and determine if law is right for you.


Sorry :oops: What are you referring to?

EDIT: Are you referring to my usage of "top-tier LAC"?

I don't want it to sound like I'm bragging, I just meant to say that despite my lack of focus the first two years of high school (to my detriment), things did work out well for me in the end, but I also have to attribute this to luck. So I'm trying to avoid not knowing the process, which was a big mistake I made during high school.

Or if you're referring to my original post, I meant to give a rough idea of what institution I will be attending -- but now I realize that undergrad reputation doesn't matter in law school admissions, or at least not to the extent of something like Wall Street recruiting.


Enjoy college! It flies by so much faster than you think it will.

If you want to keep the graduate school door open, keep your GPA up. Start studying for the LSAT sooner than you think you'll need to. Allow time for a retake. Honestly, that's all you need to know right now. Enjoy your college experience!

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Re: Advice for future college student who might want to attend law school

Postby lymenheimer » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:11 am

Dropshot wrote:
RaceJudicata wrote:Enjoy your LAC. In a few years, when you quit using that hilarious phrase, you can come back (with an LSAT score) and determine if law is right for you.


Sorry :oops: What are you referring to?

EDIT: Are you referring to my usage of "top-tier LAC"?

I don't want it to sound like I'm bragging, I just meant to say that despite my lack of focus the first two years of high school (to my detriment), things did work out well for me in the end, but I also have to attribute this to luck. So I'm trying to avoid not knowing the process, which was a big mistake I made during high school.

Or if you're referring to my original post, I meant to give a rough idea of what institution I will be attending -- but now I realize that undergrad reputation doesn't matter in law school admissions, or at least not to the extent of something like Wall Street recruiting.


Wrong forum bud. You want top-lac-schools.com/forums

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mjb447

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Re: Advice for future college student who might want to attend law school

Postby mjb447 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:34 am

Shame they didn't notice that "LAC schools" is awkward and a little redundant until after they registered the domain name.

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Re: Advice for future college student who might want to attend law school

Postby laqueredup » Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:52 am

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Last edited by laqueredup on Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Advice for future college student who might want to attend law school

Postby AJordan » Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:32 am

This may seem obvious but it's harder than it sounds:
1) Go to class and do all your homework. Had I just done that when I was 18 I probably wouldn't have ended up getting rocketed in Afghanistan.
2) Learn how to ask people for help. The fact that you're here and writing like you do shows that you're likely very intelligent. I'm not sure you know what it's like to fail, and if you're like a lot of other gunners you won't know until you get to law school. Take up something (not a college class) you're awful at so you learn how to be shitty at something and learn how to navigate through it. Learning this skill could prevent a lot of issues with identity in your mid 20s and on.
3) Take care of your finances. If you don't have to take college loans, don't take them. Don't take out more loans than you need to live above your means.
4) Study something you really enjoy, not something you think will look impressive or will be useful. An undergrad degree ain't shit anymore unless it's STEM and even some of them are meh with the amount of H1B Visas coming in.
5) Never let your GPA drop below 3.3. If you want to go to law school you should be trying as hard as possible to get that 4.0 but if you're below 3.3 something is wrong and you need to change it up before you get too far behind the 8ball.
6) Make sure you really want to be a lawyer. Intern/shadow a lawyer and find out what he/she does. Make sure you can see yourself doing that.
7) Illicit Substances are fine to experiment with. They're not worth going to jail over and they're definitely not worth a struggle with addiction.
8) Finally, have a goal that's larger than law school. Something like "I want to retire at 55" or "I want to make a happy family and have 5 kids" will lead you down the path and kick you in the ass when you aren't feeling the strength to work hard much more than "I want to go to law school"

Try to enjoy yourself and prioritize your goals. It really will help in the long run. Good luck.

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Re: Advice for future college student who might want to attend law school

Postby vmxnn » Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:57 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:Don't do law. The future is computer science, data analytics, engineering, and finance/business.

so true.... and if you have CS EE background, you can get in a good law school, do patent law, make some money.

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Re: Advice for future college student who might want to attend law school

Postby pancakes3 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:35 pm

Nobody is impressed by a liberal arts college. All that your Sarah Lawrence degree signals is that (1) you didn't have the grades to attend an Ivy*, and (2) you didn't have the sense to attend a public Ivy**. All you can do now is fight that presumption by majoring in something useable like Econ.

Econ is probably also your best bet at a high GPA because the grading is the least subjective out of all the social sciences. If you can't hack the math though, you should probably stay away.

Also, take that wall of textual advice above by AJordan with a grain of salt. I didn't sift through it but skimming through, I saw a reference to H1B visas. H1B visas are work visas that allow U.S. companies to hire foreign workers (usually foreign-born college graduates of U.S. schools). There's a cap on H1B visas at 65k/year (with an extra 20,000 spots for advanced degrees). It's forecasted that the cap will drop with the Trump administration. So given that context, I'm really not sure about the point he's trying to make. Tl;dr, the guy sounds like a dumb, so don't take the advice of dumbs.

*not the literal ivy league, but ivy-tier
**not a literal public school, but the tier just shy of the ivy's

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Re: Advice for future college student who might want to attend law school

Postby AJordan » Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:06 pm

pancakes3 wrote:Nobody is impressed by a liberal arts college. All that your Sarah Lawrence degree signals is that (1) you didn't have the grades to attend an Ivy*, and (2) you didn't have the sense to attend a public Ivy**. All you can do now is fight that presumption by majoring in something useable like Econ.

Econ is probably also your best bet at a high GPA because the grading is the least subjective out of all the social sciences. If you can't hack the math though, you should probably stay away.

Also, take that wall of textual advice above by AJordan with a grain of salt. I didn't sift through it but skimming through, I saw a reference to H1B visas. H1B visas are work visas that allow U.S. companies to hire foreign workers (usually foreign-born college graduates of U.S. schools). There's a cap on H1B visas at 65k/year (with an extra 20,000 spots for advanced degrees). It's forecasted that the cap will drop with the Trump administration. So given that context, I'm really not sure about the point he's trying to make. Tl;dr, the guy sounds like a dumb, so don't take the advice of dumbs.

*not the literal ivy league, but ivy-tier
**not a literal public school, but the tier just shy of the ivy's


I pretty much agree with all of this. Except for the me being dumb part. I'm only like 50/50 on that one. My point stands. Not all STEM majors are created equal. That said, if you can 3.8 a CS, EECS, or Econ degree and those subjects interest you, by all means, go for it.

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Re: Advice for future college student who might want to attend law school

Postby Dropshot » Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:42 pm

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Last edited by Dropshot on Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Advice for future college student who might want to attend law school

Postby Dropshot » Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:49 pm

pancakes3 wrote:Nobody is impressed by a liberal arts college. All that your Sarah Lawrence degree signals is that (1) you didn't have the grades to attend an Ivy*, and (2) you didn't have the sense to attend a public Ivy**. All you can do now is fight that presumption by majoring in something useable like Econ.

Econ is probably also your best bet at a high GPA because the grading is the least subjective out of all the social sciences. If you can't hack the math though, you should probably stay away.

Also, take that wall of textual advice above by AJordan with a grain of salt. I didn't sift through it but skimming through, I saw a reference to H1B visas. H1B visas are work visas that allow U.S. companies to hire foreign workers (usually foreign-born college graduates of U.S. schools). There's a cap on H1B visas at 65k/year (with an extra 20,000 spots for advanced degrees). It's forecasted that the cap will drop with the Trump administration. So given that context, I'm really not sure about the point he's trying to make. Tl;dr, the guy sounds like a dumb, so don't take the advice of dumbs.

*not the literal ivy league, but ivy-tier
**not a literal public school, but the tier just shy of the ivy's


Ha, Sarah Lawrence was one of my safeties, now that you mention the school :) My school is certainly ivy-tier, except it has a more intimate setting and fewer giant lecture halls.

Thanks everyone so far for their advice -- just didn't realize law school people were this hostile and snarky :shock: I guess you can call me naïve or a special snowflake. :shock:

I think I have to find the right balance between choosing something I like, something that can prepare me for law school, something that can prepare me for a job if I decide not to go to law school, and something I won't get utterly bad grades doing. Econ, at this moment, seems like a very legitimate possibility.

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Re: Advice for future college student who might want to attend law school

Postby Ferrisjso » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:34 am

Here's the best advice you'll get as an undergraduate freshman, if you want to go to law school. Take as many classes that you can get a good grade in as possible. These tend to be classes that interest you. To be perfectly honest, at an LAC you're already at a disadvantage because they tend to have more core requirements you are forced to take and these are the most likely to trip you up. Best places to go for undergrad if you're planning on law school are schools like Brown and Rochester with no core requirements at all.

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Re: Advice for future college student who might want to attend law school

Postby throwaway2016gjdm » Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:13 pm

Dropshot wrote:Thanks everyone so far for their advice -- just didn't realize law school people were this hostile and snarky :shock: I guess you can call me naïve or a special snowflake. :shock:


Listen. If you're serious about law school, take courses emphasizing language and logic. I majored in something I was passionate about (that has relatively little critical thinking) and I regretted it immensely when it came time to study the LSAT. Your undergraduate education should prepare you to do well on the LSAT. Double majoring in Philosophy and English would actually be a pretty good idea, but only if you can handle the courseload. My friends that majored in philosophy, rhetoric, etc., did wonderfully on the LSAT in a short period of time (e.g., 3 months), whereas I struggled with it for almost a year only to end up with a score 5 points above my diagnostic. Do your due diligence.

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Re: Advice for future college student who might want to attend law school

Postby mjb447 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:34 pm

Dropshot wrote:Thanks everyone so far for their advice -- just didn't realize law school people were this hostile and snarky :shock: I guess you can call me naïve or a special snowflake. :shock:

You're in the middle of a particularly toxic Venn diagram that includes members of the legal profession and anonymous internet commenters.

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Re: Advice for future college student who might want to attend law school

Postby zeglo » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:16 pm

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Last edited by zeglo on Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Advice for future college student who might want to attend law school

Postby brinicolec » Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:10 am

My advice would be to avoid this forum for another couple of years because the majority of us are neurotic (worrying about LSAT prep, LSAT scores, OR law school admissions) and out of college :lol: and you don't need that kind of vibe rubbing off on you before you're even in college!



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