3.67, 160...Chances?

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
goldenbear2020

Silver
Posts: 629
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:47 pm

Re: 3.67, 160...Chances?

Postby goldenbear2020 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:35 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:Unless you're a URM (and probably even if you are), your chances are 0 at any of the T14 and 0 for getting money from any flagship state schools. If that's your goal, retake.


Don't listen to them, apply! If you aren't satisfied with your outcomes(and I mostly am with lower numbers than you) than by all means retake(or if you are dead set on a particular school in the T-14 or T20-25 with money cause yeah that doesn't look likely). You could certainly get admitted to T1 schools with scholly money if you apply! It is also possible for you to get into Georgetown (look at their 509's) but money is unlikely(if you want the T-14 and think you can do better on the LSAT you really should retake). Remember though, many of the people on this site(while very informative and knowledgeable) are skewed towards pessimism for some reason(people with great scores like 165, 167 and 169 have been advised to retake) so remember if you retake and get an even better score they will still be telling you (largely) the same thing. You are far from "screwed" for this admission cycle! Also be proud of your 160 LSAT, I know it might not seem that way reading some of these threads but you did better than 4 out of 5 people sitting for the test and you should be really happy! You also got a pretty darn good GPA. Depending on what "bigger state schools" you want, this cycle could end very well for you.


Name a single T1 school that will take the OP with money based on their numbers.

Illinois would, but whether OP should attend is a different question...

User avatar
Ferrisjso

Gold
Posts: 2149
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:40 pm

Re: 3.67, 160...Chances?

Postby Ferrisjso » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:43 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:First off clearly I meant 20,000 a year(I do not know why there was a misunderstanding there?) .


Just to correct your misunderstanding: I was the one who said that MyLSN showed the OP had a shot at W&L with $20,000 (read the thread again if you're still confused on that point). It was not $20,000 a year, and even $20,000 a year would not be a good offer at W&L.

And once again, there are no bigger state schools (certainly not the schools listed by the OP) that will accept the OP with a sizeable scholarship. That just isn't happening, no matter how much you seem to think that barely scraping the median LSAT is enough to warrant a full ride. No one in this thread has claimed that the OP is not going to get into any of the schools they've listed, just that they will not get money at those schools.

OP: BigZuck is right, focus on what you want to do and where you want to do it rather than just honing in on USNWR rankings.


Yeah, sorry about the misunderstanding. Still if you look at the 509's, OP should get into Illinois with serious money. Their medians are 160 and 3.59 and their median grant is 30,000 a year. 30,000 isn't a full ride but it's about 2/3's of tuition. That's a pretty good deal(if he's a state resident, that's an incredible deal. OP should also get into Fordham(the numbers and the Fordham thread indicate they are very conservative with giving out grants though) which they already applied to. Everywhere else OP mentioned though, yes I agree with you. I also agree with you and BigZuck that figuring out a practice region is important rather than simply looking at the highest ranked school one can be admitted into. Still I was answering OP's question and he does have good stats and options looking at his criteria. I know I'm a 0L but if someone asks a question about where they can be admitted and they're told they don't have options when the ABA info says they clearly do, why should it matter?

User avatar
Metapod

New
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:50 pm

Re: 3.67, 160...Chances?

Postby Metapod » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:07 pm

BigZuck wrote:Going to Washington and Lee on anything less than a full ride (let alone a 20K scholarship) AND a strong desire to work a modest job in the market the school is located is likely a recipe for heartache.

The OP likely is kind of screwed with those numbers, absent some very particular career goals and life circumstances. Scoring better than 4/5 people who take the LSAT isn't a great achievement when like 90% of all people who attend law school really shouldn't. The OP is likely going to have to retake to make law school make any sort of sense IMO. Call that pessimism if you want but seriously, if you just want a reassuring pat on the back then go get law school admissions advice from your great aunt.


Where do you go to school zuck?

cavalier1138

Gold
Posts: 4954
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: 3.67, 160...Chances?

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:11 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:Their medians are 160 and 3.59 and their median grant is 30,000 a year. 30,000 isn't a full ride but it's about 2/3's of tuition.


Holy shit, I had no idea that was the ridiculous logic you were employing.

509s do not tell you how likely someone is to get a scholarship or how much that scholarship will be. The median scholarship number on that form does not mean that students around both LSAT and GPA medians get that much money.

Jesus, no wonder you've been so damn optimistic.

BigZuck

Diamond
Posts: 11731
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: 3.67, 160...Chances?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:29 pm

Metapod wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Going to Washington and Lee on anything less than a full ride (let alone a 20K scholarship) AND a strong desire to work a modest job in the market the school is located is likely a recipe for heartache.

The OP likely is kind of screwed with those numbers, absent some very particular career goals and life circumstances. Scoring better than 4/5 people who take the LSAT isn't a great achievement when like 90% of all people who attend law school really shouldn't. The OP is likely going to have to retake to make law school make any sort of sense IMO. Call that pessimism if you want but seriously, if you just want a reassuring pat on the back then go get law school admissions advice from your great aunt.


Where do you go to school zuck?

I graduated last year

Did you make an account just to ask me that question?

User avatar
Ferrisjso

Gold
Posts: 2149
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:40 pm

Re: 3.67, 160...Chances?

Postby Ferrisjso » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:30 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:Their medians are 160 and 3.59 and their median grant is 30,000 a year. 30,000 isn't a full ride but it's about 2/3's of tuition.


Holy shit, I had no idea that was the ridiculous logic you were employing.

509s do not tell you how likely someone is to get a scholarship or how much that scholarship will be. The median scholarship number on that form does not mean that students around both LSAT and GPA medians get that much money.

Jesus, no wonder you've been so damn optimistic.


What exactly did I do wrong and how off am I? This is how I (and I'm assuming countless others)made their LS application decisions. Doesn't 30,000 being the 50th percentile mean about half the students received a grant of 30,000 or more?

dsthrawy1

New
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:04 am

Re: 3.67, 160...Chances?

Postby dsthrawy1 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:41 pm

.
Last edited by dsthrawy1 on Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BigZuck

Diamond
Posts: 11731
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: 3.67, 160...Chances?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:42 pm

Been a while since I looked at a 509 and I'm not about to start now but are you looking at something discussing the total number of students with a scholarship and extrapolating that to the total number of students period?

If there's 1000 kids in the entering class and only 3 get a scholarship and the median award is 10K that doesn't mean the average kid in the class is getting 10K. He's almost certainly getting 0.

User avatar
Ferrisjso

Gold
Posts: 2149
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:40 pm

Re: 3.67, 160...Chances?

Postby Ferrisjso » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:05 pm

BigZuck wrote:Been a while since I looked at a 509 and I'm not about to start now but are you looking at something discussing the total number of students with a scholarship and extrapolating that to the total number of students period?

If there's 1000 kids in the entering class and only 3 get a scholarship and the median award is 10K that doesn't mean the average kid in the class is getting 10K. He's almost certainly getting 0.


Well I was not aware of this but I guess you learn something new every day! In the case of Illinois though, 98.5 of admitted students receive scholarships so the average kid in the class would still be getting around 30k as almost everyone gets a scholly. OP could still make it in with serious$

cavalier1138

Gold
Posts: 4954
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: 3.67, 160...Chances?

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:10 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Been a while since I looked at a 509 and I'm not about to start now but are you looking at something discussing the total number of students with a scholarship and extrapolating that to the total number of students period?

If there's 1000 kids in the entering class and only 3 get a scholarship and the median award is 10K that doesn't mean the average kid in the class is getting 10K. He's almost certainly getting 0.


Well I was not aware of this but I guess you learn something new every day! In the case of Illinois though, 98.5 of admitted students receive scholarships so the average kid in the class would still be getting around 30k as almost everyone gets a scholly. OP could still make it in with serious$


Their numbers are actually higher than I anticipated, but you're still reading the form incorrectly. 98.5% of students attending Illinois have a scholarship, and the median reflects the median for all students at the school last year, which actually reflected a dramatic jump up from the prior year, meaning that Illinois got a large donation or that they offered too much money to too many people.

At any rate, the 509 is not a good indication of what will be offered to applicants based on their numbers; scholarships on that form only reflect what offers were accepted by the students who actually decided to attend.

BigZuck

Diamond
Posts: 11731
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: 3.67, 160...Chances?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:11 pm

But a grant/scholarship can be as little as $1000, or a token gesture that's made to make people think they're way more generous than they really are.

It's all funny money anyway. It's way better to set tuition at 36K a year and give everyone a 1K scholarship than it is to set to tuition at 35K a year. They make the same amount of money no matter what but in the former they're super generous and in the latter they are stingy as hell.

User avatar
Ferrisjso

Gold
Posts: 2149
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:40 pm

Re: 3.67, 160...Chances?

Postby Ferrisjso » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:28 pm

BigZuck wrote:But a grant/scholarship can be as little as $1000, or a token gesture that's made to make people think they're way more generous than they really are.

It's all funny money anyway. It's way better to set tuition at 36K a year and give everyone a 1K scholarship than it is to set to tuition at 35K a year. They make the same amount of money no matter what but in the former they're super generous and in the latter they are stingy as hell.


While this is all true, with the OP's numbers he is still in a great situation for Illinois(which is one of the schools he expressed interest in applying to). They are looking at around 30k a year(OP's at one median and is above the other median). It seems like you're using this thread to complain about the system rather than give the OP advice(not that I disagree with all of your points). Yes scholarships that small exist and they are used to manipulate people into thinking they got a good deal when in reality they are being ripped off but that doesn't seem to be a factor here at least at schools like Illinois and it's peers.

tinycatfriend

Bronze
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:06 pm

Re: 3.67, 160...Chances?

Postby tinycatfriend » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:53 pm

Reminder that no one here is an admissions counselor... depending on where your undergrad is you could have a shot, and it doesn't hurt to try if you can pay for the applications. I know someone who got into NYU with similar numbers. (Lower GPA tbh).

Do not despair. Retake, sure, but apply this cycle if you can afford it and see what happens. Maybe you won't need to!

grades??

Silver
Posts: 984
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:55 pm

Re: 3.67, 160...Chances?

Postby grades?? » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:01 pm

tinycatfriend wrote:Reminder that no one here is an admissions counselor... depending on where your undergrad is you could have a shot, and it doesn't hurt to try if you can pay for the applications. I know someone who got into NYU with similar numbers. (Lower GPA tbh).

Do not despair. Retake, sure, but apply this cycle if you can afford it and see what happens. Maybe you won't need to!


Either your friend is an URM, her parents are multi-million dollar alumni donors/dean of the law school, or your full of shit. 1 of those 3.

BigZuck

Diamond
Posts: 11731
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: 3.67, 160...Chances?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:04 pm

I'm so glad there aren't admissions counselors posting here.

Could you imagine? Yikes.



Return to “Law School Admissions Forum�

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: davek and 22 guests