Is it true that only T3 are getting big law jobs?

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Tiny123

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Is it true that only T3 are getting big law jobs?

Postby Tiny123 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:45 am

I m a Chinese who moved to U.S on a student visa 8 years ago, now considering going to law school in 2018. As you might know, only big law, non-profit and government agency are sponsoring H1B visas (maybe some middle size law firm too).

Yesterday a Harvard Chinese JD (don't know her name) gave an informational session on one of the biggest Chinese media site saying only T3 graduates have a chance on getting big law jobs, even the rest of T14 usually struck out of luck, and it kinda started a panic in my small Chinese LSAT study group, I am just wondering how accuate is this statement?

Thank you

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TLSModBot

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Re: Is it true that only T3 are getting big law jobs?

Postby TLSModBot » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:24 am

It's not very accurate.

At GULC (number 14 on the T14), your Biglaw chances are a little better than 50/50. It goes dramatically up after that for the rest of the T13.

I'd say Biglaw is only practically guaranteed at the T3 (you can screw up as much as you like and Biglaw is still possible), but you have a good shot at it from the rest of the T13, and it's not like Biglaw doesn't hire from below the T14 (it's just not as common).

dabigchina

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Re: Is it true that only T3 are getting big law jobs?

Postby dabigchina » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:37 am

Lol just lol. Sounds like a scare tactic to try to get people to sign up for her consulting services.

grades??

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Re: Is it true that only T3 are getting big law jobs?

Postby grades?? » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:27 am

Not accurate. Below median here at duke/UVA and I even got multiple DC biglaw offers

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Toni V

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Re: Is it true that only T3 are getting big law jobs?

Postby Toni V » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:40 am

As I recall, minimally there are at least +2,000 big law jobs available in any given year. There are not enough grads in the top half of the T14 to fill those positions.

cavalier1138

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Re: Is it true that only T3 are getting big law jobs?

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:40 am

Not even close to true. Sounds like someone wants to justify turning down a full ride to another T14 school...

HYPSM

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Re: Is it true that only T3 are getting big law jobs?

Postby HYPSM » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:28 am

http://www.lstreports.com/national

Ranked by employment score:
1. Chicago
2. Penn
3. Cornell
4. Duke
5. NYU

A good number of HYS students aren't interested in BigLaw, so take this into account too.
Last edited by HYPSM on Sun May 21, 2017 4:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

pkuorz

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Re: Is it true that only T3 are getting big law jobs?

Postby pkuorz » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:26 pm

As the "Harvard Chinese JD" you mentioned, I need to clarify:

I said "many international students at T4-14 schools who need visa sponsorship, especially in lower T14 schools, did not find summer jobs this year," which is true.

That is materially different from "only T3 students find jobs," which is not true.

I hope that answers your question and seals this post.

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Clemenceau

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Re: Is it true that only T3 are getting big law jobs?

Postby Clemenceau » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:50 pm

pkuorz wrote:As the "Harvard Chinese JD" you mentioned, I need to clarify:

I said "many international students at T4-14 schools who need visa sponsorship, especially in lower T14 schools, did not find summer jobs this year," which is true.

That is materially different from "only T3 students find jobs," which is not true.

I hope that answers your question and seals this post.


Ooo plot twist

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Re: Is it true that only T3 are getting big law jobs?

Postby Nebby » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:53 pm

Clemenceau wrote:
pkuorz wrote:As the "Harvard Chinese JD" you mentioned, I need to clarify:

I said "many international students at T4-14 schools who need visa sponsorship, especially in lower T14 schools, did not find summer jobs this year," which is true.

That is materially different from "only T3 students find jobs," which is not true.

I hope that answers your question and seals this post.


Ooo plot twist

Idk. Pkuorz is a 2L

viewtopic.php?p=8128494#p8128494

Unless she has a spreadsheet with the employment stats for all "international students at T4-14 schools who need visa sponsorship," then I don't know how she'd be qualified to give such a talk.

pkuorz

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Re: Is it true that only T3 are getting big law jobs?

Postby pkuorz » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:31 pm

Nebby wrote:
Clemenceau wrote:
pkuorz wrote:As the "Harvard Chinese JD" you mentioned, I need to clarify:

I said "many international students at T4-14 schools who need visa sponsorship, especially in lower T14 schools, did not find summer jobs this year," which is true.

That is materially different from "only T3 students find jobs," which is not true.

I hope that answers your question and seals this post.


Ooo plot twist

Idk. Pkuorz is a 2L

viewtopic.php?p=8128494#p8128494

Unless she has a spreadsheet with the employment stats for all "international students at T4-14 schools who need visa sponsorship," then I don't know how she'd be qualified to give such a talk.


There is a qualitative difference between "many" and "all." For example, I do not think one needs a spreadsheet with family wealth of all students to say many are rich as long as you know "many", which I do. Whether eight or ten are "many" among a much smaller pool is debatable, but please do not let this be a showcase of LSAT logic flaws: 1) My identity as a 2L seems irrelevant to your point; 2) as I said, one does not need to know all to say "many."

The reason I "gave a talk" is to prepare new applicants with some reality that I wish I had known when I applied to law school. Getting into a T14 school does not guarantee a job, as simple as that. T3 students also struck out during OCI (that's not even news), and many at T4-14 find awesome jobs. These are the two points I also emphasized in the talk I was not qualified to give.

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screwtapeletters

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Re: Is it true that only T3 are getting big law jobs?

Postby screwtapeletters » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:56 pm

I'm sorry but if you go to a TTTT like Cornell you will DEFINITELY STRIKE OUT like the Chinese lady said.

https://www.lstreports.com/schools/cornell/

For God's sake they only have 62.8% biglaw + 3.8% federal clerkship numbers. That's 66.6%. What a number, right? The devil must be with the TTTTs in the lower T14.

But aside from the sarcasm, I think T13 is now true given G-town's #s: https://www.lstreports.com/schools/gulc/

And in all seriousness OP, you will be fine at Cornell, Northwestern, Duke, Michigan, whatever. But don't take being at median for granted 'cause you are competing with people who are at least as smart as you or smarter.

Also, do take into consideration unfavorable immigrant / visa sponsorship laws & policies we are bound to face in the next 4 years. But that applies to Top 3 schools as well, if you are an international student.

Good luck. Don't let some elitist's humble brag discourage you from pursuing your dream.

Tiny123

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Re: Is it true that only T3 are getting big law jobs?

Postby Tiny123 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:35 pm

pkuorz wrote:As the "Harvard Chinese JD" you mentioned, I need to clarify:

I said "many international students at T4-14 schools who need visa sponsorship, especially in lower T14 schools, did not find summer jobs this year," which is true.

That is materially different from "only T3 students find jobs," which is not true.

I hope that answers your question and seals this post.


Hey thanks for the clearification, I didn't personally listen to your talk, but phone almost blowed up and everyone is super worried. A girl in the group just got into UM and now she is seriously reconsidering going to law school. I wasn't being judgemental or anything, is just I m pretty sure there is no way I can get into any T3, and I been here too long to go back to China upon graduation since I don't know anyone anymore, If employment was that bad I might have to reconsider my plan.

BrainsyK

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Re: Is it true that only T3 are getting big law jobs?

Postby BrainsyK » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:48 pm

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Last edited by BrainsyK on Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dabigchina

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Re: Is it true that only T3 are getting big law jobs?

Postby dabigchina » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:59 pm

I will say, students who need visa sponsorship do tend to underperform their grades at OCI. This could also be a result of language and interviewing skills.

Still a far cry from "you should only go to HYS."

HYPSM

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Re: Is it true that only T3 are getting big law jobs?

Postby HYPSM » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:34 pm

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Last edited by HYPSM on Sun May 21, 2017 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tiny123

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Re: Is it true that only T3 are getting big law jobs?

Postby Tiny123 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:51 pm

HYPSM wrote:
screwtapeletters wrote:I'm sorry but if you go to a TTTT like Cornell you will DEFINITELY STRIKE OUT like the Chinese lady said.

https://www.lstreports.com/schools/cornell/

For God's sake they only have 62.8% biglaw + 3.8% federal clerkship numbers. That's 66.6%. What a number, right? The devil must be with the TTTTs in the lower T14.

But aside from the sarcasm, I think T13 is now true given G-town's #s: https://www.lstreports.com/schools/gulc/


OP, just to be clear, he is just kidding. Cornell Law students have excellent BigLaw employment prospects. Please don't panic.

Yes, visa sponsorship does pose a challenge, but poor grammar and awkward conversational skills are probably even more harmful. I have noticed these two traits in a number of international students.


Speaking of which, any suggestions on how to improve you grammar? I moved to US at age of 14 and was raised by a middle class suburban family, so conversational skill check, but yes I am horrible when come to grammar, noticed that years ago, never figured out how to deal with it. I think that was the main reason why I completely boomed UG because I major in "political science thesis track" with a terrible grammar :(

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galeatus

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Re: Is it true that only T3 are getting big law jobs?

Postby galeatus » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:27 pm

Tiny123 wrote:
HYPSM wrote:
screwtapeletters wrote:I'm sorry but if you go to a TTTT like Cornell you will DEFINITELY STRIKE OUT like the Chinese lady said.

https://www.lstreports.com/schools/cornell/

For God's sake they only have 62.8% biglaw + 3.8% federal clerkship numbers. That's 66.6%. What a number, right? The devil must be with the TTTTs in the lower T14.

But aside from the sarcasm, I think T13 is now true given G-town's #s: https://www.lstreports.com/schools/gulc/


OP, just to be clear, he is just kidding. Cornell Law students have excellent BigLaw employment prospects. Please don't panic.

Yes, visa sponsorship does pose a challenge, but poor grammar and awkward conversational skills are probably even more harmful. I have noticed these two traits in a number of international students.


Speaking of which, any suggestions on how to improve you grammar? I moved to US at age of 14 and was raised by a middle class suburban family, so conversational skill check, but yes I am horrible when come to grammar, noticed that years ago, never figured out how to deal with it. I think that was the main reason why I completely boomed UG because I major in "political science thesis track" with a terrible grammar :(


This may sound like shameless plugging but try using apps like Grammarly or the like. After following the software's suggestions for a while you should find yourself writing better.



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