Any chance of a T30 with these numbers?

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MrSam

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Any chance of a T30 with these numbers?

Postby MrSam » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:37 pm

Long story short, I decided to take the LSAT, this Saturday. I've been studying for well over a year, and due to personal reasons, I can't wait until next cycle to apply. Anyhow, I'm not really aiming for one of the T5 schools, although, I wouldn't turn any of them down.
I graduated from a state university. My LSAC GPA is slightly above a 4.0. ECs include club VP, 6 months interning with a law firm, and volunteer work with children with disabilities.
The only problem is my LSAT score. My diagnostic was an embarrassingly low 137. My average now is a 157, with a few 160/161 scores here and there.
Do I have a shot at any of the T30 schools? Particularly, those in California. Ideally, I would love to attend UCLA. However, I wouldn't lose any sleep over getting accepted to USC or UCI. Any other schools I should consider?

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amta

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Re: Any chance of a T30 with these numbers?

Postby amta » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:45 pm

take february.

UC Davis loves a high GPA and will often overlook a low LSAT.

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Re: Any chance of a T30 with these numbers?

Postby MrSam » Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:59 pm

amta wrote:take february.

UC Davis loves a high GPA and will often overlook a low LSAT.



I've already registered for Dec. I'm open to retake if things don't go well this Saturday. I'll look into Davis. I know Berkeley values GPA slightly more than some of the other T14, but didn't think that to be true of Davis (relative to the other T30).

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amta

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Re: Any chance of a T30 with these numbers?

Postby amta » Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:02 pm

you can still take february even if you are registered and taking december. Berkeley is not going to be kind to a 160 no matter the GPA.

if you absolutely have to apply this cycle, i think buckling down for a february take (6-8 hours a day between now and then) is your best chance to maximize your GPA.

grades??

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Re: Any chance of a T30 with these numbers?

Postby grades?? » Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:04 pm

1- don't think about chances until you get an lsat. Most people score 4-5 points lower on test day. Dont waste that gpa. You will be kicking yourself for the rest of your life.

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Re: Any chance of a T30 with these numbers?

Postby ND2018 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:33 pm

It would be a huge mistake to waste that GPA.

"Personal reasons" for not being able to take a year off? I never get this. What could possibly be so serious? Maybe if someone is paying full boat on condition you go right away. Aside from that, the answer should always be-->take time off.

As a college senior, I have serious doubts that you understand what type of law you want to practice, or what type of lawyer you want to be, let alone whether you actually want to be a lawyer. Understand that (with your current numbers) some opportunities will become immediately foreclosed to you the second you put a deposit down on a school (assuming mediocre school).

You also need to understand that a 4.0 makes you competitive at literally every law school in the country. Yes Harvard and Stanford are within your grasp, but you need to take a year off and learn how to ace a very learn able test. Don't take the easy way out.

Go read up on LSAT studying, (this site is full of useful resources), find a job post-grad, and study your ass off--> go to Harvard or wherever the hell you want a couple years down the road.

Source: Kid at a t-25 who also thought he couldn't take a year off.

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Re: Any chance of a T30 with these numbers?

Postby Zoidberg747 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:21 pm

Yeah you need to wait a year. The LSAT is super learnable and with enough study you could at least get up to a 167-170 and get more money at a T20 or even get some money at a T14.

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Re: Any chance of a T30 with these numbers?

Postby MrSam » Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:00 pm

amta wrote:you can still take february even if you are registered and taking december. Berkeley is not going to be kind to a 160 no matter the GPA.

if you absolutely have to apply this cycle, i think buckling down for a february take (6-8 hours a day between now and then) is your best chance to maximize your GPA.


grades?? wrote:1- don't think about chances until you get an lsat. Most people score 4-5 points lower on test day. Dont waste that gpa. You will be kicking yourself for the rest of your life.


ND2018 wrote:It would be a huge mistake to waste that GPA.

"Personal reasons" for not being able to take a year off? I never get this. What could possibly be so serious? Maybe if someone is paying full boat on condition you go right away. Aside from that, the answer should always be-->take time off.

As a college senior, I have serious doubts that you understand what type of law you want to practice, or what type of lawyer you want to be, let alone whether you actually want to be a lawyer. Understand that (with your current numbers) some opportunities will become immediately foreclosed to you the second you put a deposit down on a school (assuming mediocre school).

You also need to understand that a 4.0 makes you competitive at literally every law school in the country. Yes Harvard and Stanford are within your grasp, but you need to take a year off and learn how to ace a very learn able test. Don't take the easy way out.

Go read up on LSAT studying, (this site is full of useful resources), find a job post-grad, and study your ass off--> go to Harvard or wherever the hell you want a couple years down the road.


Zoidberg747 wrote:Yeah you need to wait a year. The LSAT is super learnable and with enough study you could at least get up to a 167-170 and get more money at a T20 or even get some money at a T14.

Source: Kid at a t-25 who also thought he couldn't take a year off.


Just wanted to thank you all for the advice. The plan now is to take the Dec test (I'm already registered and can't get a refund anyways. Besides, it would be nice to get a feel for what it's like to sit an official administration). If things don't go well, I'll either sit the February test, or put myself in an uncomfortable position and take another year off (which I'm fine with...it's just going to be tough).

That said, I haven't heard of too many people going from a high 130 diagnostic to a high 160, low 170 official score. I would be more than happy to attend UCLA Law, although my "dream school" has always been Georgetown.
Technically, this would be my third "year off," assuming my math is correct.
Aside from personal reasons, I'm at the point where I don't know if my score is going to get much higher, even with more studying. I've been studying for 1.5 years, 4-8 hours/day, 7 days a week, with a few breaks here and there (never longer than 3 days). My blind review scores are usually in the mid 170s, but for whatever reason, I can't seem to close the gap between my BR scores and my initial takes. I've also taken around 30 PTs.
I should also mention that I completed the 7Sage curriculum, as well as TestMasters. I also went through all of the PowerScore bibles and much of The Trainer.
I spoke with a law school admissions counseling service - the counselor essentially said, "Take the test, I don't think your score is going to get any higher." Not her exact words, but close enough.

Zoidberg747, if you don't mind me asking, what was your LSAT score? And, did you register as a URM?

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zot1

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Re: Any chance of a T30 with these numbers?

Postby zot1 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:41 pm

FWIW UCI takes Feb LSAT.

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Re: Any chance of a T30 with these numbers?

Postby zeglo » Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:58 pm

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Last edited by zeglo on Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

grades??

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Re: Any chance of a T30 with these numbers?

Postby grades?? » Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:29 am

I went from low 140s diagnostic to 175+ on a real test. It has nothing to do with how large the jump, but more about how you are studying and how hard you try. Studying for 8 hrs a day means nothing if you don't get anything out of it.

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Re: Any chance of a T30 with these numbers?

Postby curry1 » Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:24 pm

MrSam wrote:Long story short, I decided to take the LSAT, this Saturday. I've been studying for well over a year, and due to personal reasons, I can't wait until next cycle to apply. Anyhow, I'm not really aiming for one of the T5 schools, although, I wouldn't turn any of them down.
I graduated from a state university. My LSAC GPA is slightly above a 4.0. ECs include club VP, 6 months interning with a law firm, and volunteer work with children with disabilities.
The only problem is my LSAT score. My diagnostic was an embarrassingly low 137. My average now is a 157, with a few 160/161 scores here and there.
Do I have a shot at any of the T30 schools? Particularly, those in California. Ideally, I would love to attend UCLA. However, I wouldn't lose any sleep over getting accepted to USC or UCI. Any other schools I should consider?


T30 is not a relevant group of schools for you to consider. If you're not going to go to a T14, only go to a strong regional where you have existing ties (with a large scholarship of course). I wouldn't recommend going to UCLA/USC if you didn't grow up in LA or go to UG there.

Zoidberg747

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Re: Any chance of a T30 with these numbers?

Postby Zoidberg747 » Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:29 pm

MrSam wrote:Zoidberg747, if you don't mind me asking, what was your LSAT score? And, did you register as a URM?


I take the test in 2 days. I'm a white male so definitely not URM. But if you look on mylsn.info with those numbers you'll see people get into lower and mid T14 schools with substantial scholly money. Good luck!

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Re: Any chance of a T30 with these numbers?

Postby MrSam » Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:13 pm

Zoidberg747 wrote:
MrSam wrote:Zoidberg747, if you don't mind me asking, what was your LSAT score? And, did you register as a URM?


I take the test in 2 days. I'm a white male so definitely not URM. But if you look on mylsn.info with those numbers you'll see people get into lower and mid T14 schools with substantial scholly money. Good luck!


Woops, I meant to ask the T25 guy. Either way, thanks for the info. I'll check out the site.

curry1 wrote:T30 is not a relevant group of schools for you to consider. If you're not going to go to a T14, only go to a strong regional where you have existing ties (with a large scholarship of course). I wouldn't recommend going to UCLA/USC if you didn't grow up in LA or go to UG there.


I grew up in Los Angeles county (lived here all my life). I do have a few ties in LA City - one family members who is a City Attorney, a family-friend who works for the DA's office, and a friend from church who practices environmental law. Most of my ties are in Orange County. That's where I did my internship and got close to a few of the attorneys.

grades?? wrote:I went from low 140s diagnostic to 175+ on a real test. It has nothing to do with how large the jump, but more about how you are studying and how hard you try. Studying for 8 hrs a day means nothing if you don't get anything out of it.


That's incredible. May I ask how long you studied (from your initial diagnostic to the 175+ test score)? I guess I've been studying hard, not smart.

zeglo wrote:Retake. I went up 15 points.


Was that from your retake? Or diagnostic?

zot1 wrote:FWIW UCI takes Feb LSAT.


Thanks for the heads-up. I think most of the schools I'm applying to accept a Feb score. But, some have made it clear that it would put me at a disadvantage.

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Re: Any chance of a T30 with these numbers?

Postby grades?? » Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:15 pm

In my case, it took 1 full year, 3 actual takes, and taking each lsat published at least 3 times in full testing condition. Yes, I did take around 240 lsats in full practice conditions.

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Re: Any chance of a T30 with these numbers?

Postby zeglo » Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:11 pm

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MrSam

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Re: Any chance of a T30 with these numbers?

Postby MrSam » Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:16 pm

grades?? wrote:In my case, it took 1 full year, 3 actual takes, and taking each lsat published at least 3 times in full testing condition. Yes, I did take around 240 lsats in full practice conditions.


That's reassuring. I suppose I could always sit the December test, apply this cycle, and I don't get into my top picks, retake and apply next cycle. At least I'll have everything ready to go.

zeglo wrote:From my diagnostic. Keep in mind I did not take the LSAT for a while and studied a lot before getting a real score.


That's what I figured. I've seen about a 20 point improvement on my PTs, from my initial take. But, I've been stuck at my current average for a few months now.

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Re: Any chance of a T30 with these numbers?

Postby zeglo » Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:25 pm

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Re: Any chance of a T30 with these numbers?

Postby MrSam » Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:46 pm

zeglo wrote:
MrSam wrote:
grades?? wrote:In my case, it took 1 full year, 3 actual takes, and taking each lsat published at least 3 times in full testing condition. Yes, I did take around 240 lsats in full practice conditions.


That's reassuring. I suppose I could always sit the December test, apply this cycle, and I don't get into my top picks, retake and apply next cycle. At least I'll have everything ready to go.

zeglo wrote:From my diagnostic. Keep in mind I did not take the LSAT for a while and studied a lot before getting a real score.


That's what I figured. I've seen about a 20 point improvement on my PTs, from my initial take. But, I've been stuck at my current average for a few months now.


Okay, well that's good. I had trouble breaking the 160 hump. My recommendation is lock down logic games. Just do a few 35-minute sections each day with a fake Scantron to bubble.


Thank you for the advice! After my performance on today's LSAT, I realized that LG is probably what's keeping me from jumping into the 160+ range.

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Re: Any chance of a T30 with these numbers?

Postby heythatslife » Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:18 pm

If LG is the section holding you back, then you can definitely break into the 160s. I sucked at LG when I started, and I mean really sucked like taking over an hour to do an LG section and still got only half of the questions right. I ended up in the mid-170s eventually. Just drill the hell out of the games to the point where you can diagram without even thinking about it. I did one LG section a day over lunch break at work for a few months from the PTs that I'd already taken.



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