Worst Law School You'd Go To For Free Tuition Forum

[Hikikomorist]

Wow, some of the people on here really need to seek psychological help.

Only the ones seriously considering law school.

[nick417]

Any school in the top 100 of USNR, for free, in the geographic region you want to work in, is an okay investment

A good rule of thumb, you should not take out more debt (say $60K for law school) then your yearly salary (say $60K). Even going to school for free will cost you money for living expenses. And, unless you are total disaster in law school, can guarantee some sort of entry level job in the 40-60K range.

The problem is when you take out loans for greater than $60K, but land a job in the 40-60K range. That is when problems start to build for law grads.

[landshoes]

Any school in the top 100 of USNR, for free, in the geographic region you want to work in, is an okay investment

A good rule of thumb, you should not take out more debt (say $60K for law school) then your yearly salary (say $60K). Even going to school for free will cost you money for living expenses. And, unless you are total disaster in law school, can guarantee some sort of entry level job in the 40-60K range.

The problem is when you take out loans for greater than $60K, but land a job in the 40-60K range. That is when problems start to build for law grads.

Not necessarily. You have to consider the signaling to other attorneys (many of whom will assume the law school you go to was the best law school you could get into, or that you didn't have "better" options for free), the lack of mobility that comes with a regional degree, and the fact that some non-law options are effectively going to be closed to you once you signal your commitment to law school by investing in a JD.

[A. Nony Mouse]

But again, whether the above matters depends entirely on what you want to do as a lawyer.

[katthegreat11]

This might be a dumb question so bear with me. I understand geographic placement immediately after law school can be school-dependent if you go to a school with a regional but not national reputation. That makes sense to me. But why does that mean you're stuck in that geographic location for the rest of your law career? I know that taking the bar multiple times would be a pain in the ass, but my understanding is that if you pass the bar in one state and practice for a few years, many states allow you to be admitted by reciprocity. So if a full tuition scholarship at a top regional school was your best financial offer, why wouldn't you go there, work wherever that lands you, and then after you've established yourself switch to a firm or organization in an entirely different part of the country if you so desire?

I know that's probably a difficult path, but I don't see why going to a well-regarded regional school like Vandy or WUSTL automatically locks you into certain markets for life. Or is that not what people are saying here?

[A. Nony Mouse]

You can do that - get experience in one part of the country and eventually move somewhere else. I think 1) when people are talking strong regional in this thread they're talking more about, say, Georgia or Alabama or Utah or ASU to work in those respective regions, not Vandy or WashU (which do have a bit broader reach). 2) A lot of the advice given here is addressing people who say something like "I have a free ride to Georgia and I want to work in California after I graduate," not someone who says "I have a free ride to Georgia and I want to work in Atlanta after graduation but then maybe in a few years I might want to move."

Moving isn't always easy - it depend on things like what experience you get, and what your practice area is and how it fits into other markets (this is sort of an extreme/unrealistic example, but say you work in Alabama or Florida doing maritime law - deciding you want to move to Kansas City is going to be much harder than deciding you want to go to New Orleans). Connections can be really helpful for getting legal jobs, and you develop connections in a particular market, so if you up and leave that market you have to start that all over again. And the more national a school you go to, the more likely you are to have other connections you can draw on in other markets (Harvard or NYU alumni networks are going to be much stronger in California than Georgia's alumni network is). So in that respect, people promote going to a national school with a more portable degree if you think you want to move around - the risk of going to a regional school with the plan that at some unspecified point in the future you can go elsewhere is that in the end, you won't. Or to put it another way, if you know that ultimately you really want to end up in Market X and that's a big deal to you, you're best off going to school in Market X to start with, rather than taking a path that might not get you there.

But people can and do move around based on their experience. It's just hard to predict at the time you're picking a school how realistic that's going to be.

[kellyfrost]

It is too hard to choose just one school, so I am going to break it down regionally:

West Coast:
Pepperdine, University of San Diego

Mountain West:
Wyoming

Mid West:
University of North Dakota or Drake

Southwest:
Baylor or Oklahoma

Southeast:
Arkansas, South Carolina

Northeast:
West Virginia or American University

[ronanOgara]

It is too hard to choose just one school, so I am going to break it down regionally:

West Coast:
Pepperdine, University of San Diego

Mountain West:
Wyoming

Mid West:
University of North Dakota or Drake

Southwest:
Baylor or Oklahoma

Southeast:
Arkansas, South Carolina

Northeast:
West Virginia or American University

Neither of your Northeastern schools are in the Northeast, you midwestern fool.

[RamTitan]

It is too hard to choose just one school, so I am going to break it down regionally:

West Coast:
Pepperdine, University of San Diego

Mountain West:
Wyoming

Mid West:
University of North Dakota or Drake

Southwest:
Baylor or Oklahoma

Southeast:
Arkansas, South Carolina

Northeast:
West Virginia or American University

Neither of your Northeastern schools are in the Northeast, you midwestern fool.

I audibly laughed at this

[RamTitan]

You can do that - get experience in one part of the country and eventually move somewhere else. I think 1) when people are talking strong regional in this thread they're talking more about, say, Georgia or Alabama or Utah or ASU to work in those respective regions, not Vandy or WashU (which do have a bit broader reach). 2) A lot of the advice given here is addressing people who say something like "I have a free ride to Georgia and I want to work in California after I graduate," not someone who says "I have a free ride to Georgia and I want to work in Atlanta after graduation but then maybe in a few years I might want to move."

Moving isn't always easy - it depend on things like what experience you get, and what your practice area is and how it fits into other markets (this is sort of an extreme/unrealistic example, but say you work in Alabama or Florida doing maritime law - deciding you want to move to Kansas City is going to be much harder than deciding you want to go to New Orleans). Connections can be really helpful for getting legal jobs, and you develop connections in a particular market, so if you up and leave that market you have to start that all over again. And the more national a school you go to, the more likely you are to have other connections you can draw on in other markets (Harvard or NYU alumni networks are going to be much stronger in California than Georgia's alumni network is). So in that respect, people promote going to a national school with a more portable degree if you think you want to move around - the risk of going to a regional school with the plan that at some unspecified point in the future you can go elsewhere is that in the end, you won't. Or to put it another way, if you know that ultimately you really want to end up in Market X and that's a big deal to you, you're best off going to school in Market X to start with, rather than taking a path that might not get you there.

But people can and do move around based on their experience. It's just hard to predict at the time you're picking a school how realistic that's going to be.

God damn, A. Nony Mouse is always slaying it with his knowledge

[kellyfrost]

It is too hard to choose just one school, so I am going to break it down regionally:

West Coast:
Pepperdine, University of San Diego

Mountain West:
Wyoming

Mid West:
University of North Dakota or Drake

Southwest:
Baylor or Oklahoma

Southeast:
Arkansas, South Carolina

Northeast:
West Virginia or American University

Neither of your Northeastern schools are in the Northeast, you midwestern fool.

What? They aren't? When I look at a map, anything above North Carolina and right of Ohio is Northeast.

[ronanOgara]

It is too hard to choose just one school, so I am going to break it down regionally:

West Coast:
Pepperdine, University of San Diego

Mountain West:
Wyoming

Mid West:
University of North Dakota or Drake

Southwest:
Baylor or Oklahoma

Southeast:
Arkansas, South Carolina

Northeast:
West Virginia or American University

Neither of your Northeastern schools are in the Northeast, you midwestern fool.

What? They aren't? When I look at a map, anything above North Carolina and right of Ohio is Northeast.

Wikipedia seems to lightly agree with you, but you're blatantly trolling the Mid-Atlantic. I live in PA and I don't usually consider it the "Northeast." But that might be an insider's perspective. We usually differentiate between New England and Mid-Atlantic.

[pantsuitchic]

It is too hard to choose just one school, so I am going to break it down regionally:

West Coast:
Pepperdine, University of San Diego

Mountain West:
Wyoming

Mid West:
University of North Dakota or Drake

Southwest:
Baylor or Oklahoma

Southeast:
Arkansas, South Carolina

Northeast:
West Virginia or American University

Neither of your Northeastern schools are in the Northeast, you midwestern fool.

What? They aren't? When I look at a map, anything above North Carolina and right of Ohio is Northeast.

Anything south of New Jersey is not the Northeast in the minds of people who grew up there.

[kellyfrost]

It is too hard to choose just one school, so I am going to break it down regionally:

West Coast:
Pepperdine, University of San Diego

Mountain West:
Wyoming

Mid West:
University of North Dakota or Drake

Southwest:
Baylor or Oklahoma

Southeast:
Arkansas, South Carolina

Northeast:
West Virginia or American University

Neither of your Northeastern schools are in the Northeast, you midwestern fool.

What? They aren't? When I look at a map, anything above North Carolina and right of Ohio is Northeast.

Wikipedia seems to lightly agree with you, but you're blatantly trolling the Mid-Atlantic. I live in PA and I don't usually consider it the "Northeast." But that might be an insider's perspective. We usually differentiate between New England and Mid-Atlantic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast ... ted_States

https://www.dol.gov/whd/programs/dbra/neast.htm

Look, I know my geography. I won the 50 states and Capitals Contest at my school in the 6th grade. I also used a placemat that was a map of the United States for nearly every meal I ate as a child.

[ronanOgara]

It is too hard to choose just one school, so I am going to break it down regionally:

West Coast:
Pepperdine, University of San Diego

Mountain West:
Wyoming

Mid West:
University of North Dakota or Drake

Southwest:
Baylor or Oklahoma

Southeast:
Arkansas, South Carolina

Northeast:
West Virginia or American University

Neither of your Northeastern schools are in the Northeast, you midwestern fool.

What? They aren't? When I look at a map, anything above North Carolina and right of Ohio is Northeast.

Wikipedia seems to lightly agree with you, but you're blatantly trolling the Mid-Atlantic. I live in PA and I don't usually consider it the "Northeast." But that might be an insider's perspective. We usually differentiate between New England and Mid-Atlantic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast ... ted_States

https://www.dol.gov/whd/programs/dbra/neast.htm

Look, I know my geography. I won the 50 states and Capitals Contest at my school in the 6th grade. I also used a placemat that was a map of the United States for nearly every meal I ate as a child.

I'm sorry, but your inclusion of the "Mountain West" in your criteria made me think that we weren't using the US Department of Labor's geography standards.

[kellyfrost]

It is too hard to choose just one school, so I am going to break it down regionally:

West Coast:
Pepperdine, University of San Diego

Mountain West:
Wyoming

Mid West:
University of North Dakota or Drake

Southwest:
Baylor or Oklahoma

Southeast:
Arkansas, South Carolina

Northeast:
West Virginia or American University

Neither of your Northeastern schools are in the Northeast, you midwestern fool.

What? They aren't? When I look at a map, anything above North Carolina and right of Ohio is Northeast.

Wikipedia seems to lightly agree with you, but you're blatantly trolling the Mid-Atlantic. I live in PA and I don't usually consider it the "Northeast." But that might be an insider's perspective. We usually differentiate between New England and Mid-Atlantic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast ... ted_States

https://www.dol.gov/whd/programs/dbra/neast.htm

Look, I know my geography. I won the 50 states and Capitals Contest at my school in the 6th grade. I also used a placemat that was a map of the United States for nearly every meal I ate as a child.

I'm sorry, but your inclusion of the "Mountain West" in your criteria made me think that we weren't using the US Department of Labor's geography standards.

The Department of Labor considers North Dakota and Montana as part of the Southwest? Jesus Christ, haven't they ever looked at a god damn map?

[sweets91]

You can do that - get experience in one part of the country and eventually move somewhere else. I think 1) when people are talking strong regional in this thread they're talking more about, say, Georgia or Alabama or Utah or ASU to work in those respective regions, not Vandy or WashU (which do have a bit broader reach). 2) A lot of the advice given here is addressing people who say something like "I have a free ride to Georgia and I want to work in California after I graduate," not someone who says "I have a free ride to Georgia and I want to work in Atlanta after graduation but then maybe in a few years I might want to move."

Moving isn't always easy - it depend on things like what experience you get, and what your practice area is and how it fits into other markets (this is sort of an extreme/unrealistic example, but say you work in Alabama or Florida doing maritime law - deciding you want to move to Kansas City is going to be much harder than deciding you want to go to New Orleans). Connections can be really helpful for getting legal jobs, and you develop connections in a particular market, so if you up and leave that market you have to start that all over again. And the more national a school you go to, the more likely you are to have other connections you can draw on in other markets (Harvard or NYU alumni networks are going to be much stronger in California than Georgia's alumni network is). So in that respect, people promote going to a national school with a more portable degree if you think you want to move around - the risk of going to a regional school with the plan that at some unspecified point in the future you can go elsewhere is that in the end, you won't. Or to put it another way, if you know that ultimately you really want to end up in Market X and that's a big deal to you, you're best off going to school in Market X to start with, rather than taking a path that might not get you there.

But people can and do move around based on their experience. It's just hard to predict at the time you're picking a school how realistic that's going to be.

God damn, A. Nony Mouse is always slaying it with his knowledge

*her

[A. Nony Mouse]

Whatever PA is, West Virginia and DC are *definitely* *not* the northeast. Dear god.

[RamTitan]

You can do that - get experience in one part of the country and eventually move somewhere else. I think 1) when people are talking strong regional in this thread they're talking more about, say, Georgia or Alabama or Utah or ASU to work in those respective regions, not Vandy or WashU (which do have a bit broader reach). 2) A lot of the advice given here is addressing people who say something like "I have a free ride to Georgia and I want to work in California after I graduate," not someone who says "I have a free ride to Georgia and I want to work in Atlanta after graduation but then maybe in a few years I might want to move."

Moving isn't always easy - it depend on things like what experience you get, and what your practice area is and how it fits into other markets (this is sort of an extreme/unrealistic example, but say you work in Alabama or Florida doing maritime law - deciding you want to move to Kansas City is going to be much harder than deciding you want to go to New Orleans). Connections can be really helpful for getting legal jobs, and you develop connections in a particular market, so if you up and leave that market you have to start that all over again. And the more national a school you go to, the more likely you are to have other connections you can draw on in other markets (Harvard or NYU alumni networks are going to be much stronger in California than Georgia's alumni network is). So in that respect, people promote going to a national school with a more portable degree if you think you want to move around - the risk of going to a regional school with the plan that at some unspecified point in the future you can go elsewhere is that in the end, you won't. Or to put it another way, if you know that ultimately you really want to end up in Market X and that's a big deal to you, you're best off going to school in Market X to start with, rather than taking a path that might not get you there.

But people can and do move around based on their experience. It's just hard to predict at the time you're picking a school how realistic that's going to be.

God damn, A. Nony Mouse is always slaying it with his knowledge

*her

My bad!

[mjb447]

Must've been the same people who laid out the National Reporter System. See, e.g., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Reporter

[Nebby]

lols at the person that said "CCN"

Uchi students have a reputation to maintain

[lnsl123]

.

[kellyfrost]

Whatever PA is, West Virginia and DC are *definitely* *not* the northeast. Dear god.

That is a matter of interpretation. Although, if you look at the boundaries established by the Department of Labor, you will notice that Montana and North Dakota are both considered "Southwest" despite they both share a northern border with Canada. This leads me to believe that "South" "Southeast" "Northeast" ect. can all be interpreted broadly.

[kellyfrost]

Must've been the same people who laid out the National Reporter System. See, e.g., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Reporter

The logic behind the Reporter maps is difficult to follow as well. I understand that boundary lines must be placed somewhere and someone will disagree with their placement, but these are some head scratchers.

[Nebby]

these are some head scratchers.

Like everyone one of your posts