Early Decision decisions

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Early Decision decisions

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:41 pm

natural_law wrote:This is going to sound horribly arrogant, but to pass a LVT is going to require immense political power, probably the presidency. 25 of 44 Presidents have been lawyers. End of discussion.

And I don't care about money at all. My only motivation is to do what I can to help build a just society. The high-earning job is just to pay for law school myself instead of relying, once again, on my family's money.

I am aware of the downsides to transferring, as I said originally.

Have you ever heard of correlation v. causation? Also I'd venture most of those 25 went to law school under very different circumstances than those that exist now.

And wait - how is *JAG* a path to politics?? Chances are good you'll spend your time on minor military-specific criminal stuff and helping servicepeople write wills.

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Re: Early Decision decisions

Postby Dcc617 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:44 pm

natural_law wrote:You lot do a whole lot of assuming and give advice without the facts or even consideration of the question.

JD facilitates JAG Corps, which is a viable path to politics.


Do you have any experience with the military at all? Who is telling you this stuff?

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Re: Early Decision decisions

Postby cavalier1138 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:48 pm

Dcc617 wrote:
natural_law wrote:You lot do a whole lot of assuming and give advice without the facts or even consideration of the question.

JD facilitates JAG Corps, which is a viable path to politics.


Do you have any experience with the military at all? Who is telling you this stuff?


I'm guessing that "A Few Good Men" was the main resource...

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Re: Early Decision decisions

Postby natural_law » Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:55 pm

anonymity really brings out the worst in you lot, doesn't it

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Re: Early Decision decisions

Postby cavalier1138 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:02 pm

natural_law wrote:anonymity really brings out the worst in you lot, doesn't it


You are literally telling people that you plan on going to law school to become president. Please tell me more about who's being "the worst" in this situation.

Incidentally, since you didn't seem to pick it up: JAG is not a viable path to politics, and it doesn't sound like you have any military experience. That is not a route you want to take, even if you make the decision to go to law school.

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Re: Early Decision decisions

Postby Dcc617 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:13 pm

natural_law wrote:anonymity really brings out the worst in you lot, doesn't it


So dude, I'm a former military person who is now at Harvard. Your plan is bad. It involves you giving up a good job, taking out a bunch of loans to go to a meh school for the very low chance of transferring into HYS and taking out even more debt. Your goal is not to become a lawyer, but rather to become a powerful politician to serve a very specific policy goal.

What are you trying to do now to reach your policy goal? Do you support local organizations? Do you organize stuff?

You can PM me if you want some more perspective.

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Re: Early Decision decisions

Postby natural_law » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:19 pm

No, I am going to law school because it is training that will help me further a just society in anyway that I can.

I don't want to go into politics. I want to live on a farm and raise a garden and some animals.

But unfortunately that would not sit well with my conscience.

I know how I want to help - the LVT - and I know that it will require political power. The rational thing is to position oneself for the office that will have the greatest power to create that reality.

If someone else wants to do it and is capable, then I would gladly go to my farm and surf my life away. But I have never met anyone in my life who a) is familiar with this specific policy, and b) is in a position to make it happen. So I work to put myself in that position.

JAG is military service which has political significance. I also want to do it for its own sake. I think it's pretty ridiculous for you to say that it isn't a viable path, since there are clearly an infinite number of viable paths into politics.

So really you're a bit of a judgmental ass whose ego gets offended by other people's ambition. And it's not even ambition, it's just what I am doing with my life. And for some reason that turns you into an assumption-making, unhelpful, and rude internet crusader.

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Re: Early Decision decisions

Postby cavalier1138 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:21 pm

natural_law wrote:No, I am going to law school because it is training that will help me further a just society in anyway that I can.

I don't want to go into politics. I want to live on a farm and raise a garden and some animals.

But unfortunately that would not sit well with my conscience.

I know how I want to help - the LVT - and I know that it will require political power. The rational thing is to position oneself for the office that will have the greatest power to create that reality.

If someone else wants to do it and is capable, then I would gladly go to my farm and surf my life away. But I have never met anyone in my life who a) is familiar with this specific policy, and b) is in a position to make it happen. So I work to put myself in that position.

JAG is military service which has political significance. I also want to do it for its own sake. I think it's pretty ridiculous for you to say that it isn't a viable path, since there are clearly an infinite number of viable paths into politics.

So really you're a bit of a judgmental ass whose ego gets offended by other people's ambition. And it's not even ambition, it's just what I am doing with my life. And for some reason that turns you into an assumption-making, unhelpful, and rude internet crusader.


Quoting for posterity.

Yeah, you're going to be fine in politics.

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Re: Early Decision decisions

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:07 pm

natural_law wrote:No, I am going to law school because it is training that will help me further a just society in anyway that I can.

I don't want to go into politics. I want to live on a farm and raise a garden and some animals.

But unfortunately that would not sit well with my conscience.

I know how I want to help - the LVT - and I know that it will require political power. The rational thing is to position oneself for the office that will have the greatest power to create that reality.

If someone else wants to do it and is capable, then I would gladly go to my farm and surf my life away. But I have never met anyone in my life who a) is familiar with this specific policy, and b) is in a position to make it happen. So I work to put myself in that position.

JAG is military service which has political significance. I also want to do it for its own sake. I think it's pretty ridiculous for you to say that it isn't a viable path, since there are clearly an infinite number of viable paths into politics.

So really you're a bit of a judgmental ass whose ego gets offended by other people's ambition. And it's not even ambition, it's just what I am doing with my life. And for some reason that turns you into an assumption-making, unhelpful, and rude internet crusader.

No one is offended by your ambition (or at least, no one is giving you bad advice based on that). The problem is that many people seem to believe that getting a JD is a path into politics, whereas the JD is actually a very specialized professional degree that provides you with the ability to get licensed in one profession, and that's about it. Because people with JDs go on to politics doesn't mean that the JD is the only or even closest to the best way to go into politics. People are giving you advice you don't want to hear based on the plan you propose. How, specifically, will being a lawyer get you on a path to the presidency? What will do you on graduation? How about 5 years after that? How will those steps help you politically? Could you achieve the same thing simply by going into politics from the start?

(Also are you American or British? Is your UG degree American or British?)

Military service is one thing, and JAG (though a kind of military service) is another. It's a great experience and if you want to try to do it, go for it. But if you're looking for the military service bump just go be in the military and save the three years + tons of money for law school. It sounds kind of like you're trying to pile up the things you think will make a difference and they don't really work that way.

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Re: Early Decision decisions

Postby natural_law » Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:30 pm

Jag corps 27-33

Constitutional law professor 33-40

Local politics (likely Oregon/Hawaii) 40-44

Congressional politics 44-50

State politics (California) 50-60

Executive politics 60-68

I have a plan that goes year by year, goal by goal, every year, until I'm 68. I'm not just spit balling.

I also want to study and practice law for its own sake, clearly I need to emphasize this more, and not just use it as a stepping stone.

I see JAG as a much more useful insight into military and international law than being in the military per se. I also don't want to serve in a war making capacity so long as the congressional-military-industrial complex has the military captured, because we fight immoral wars.

L2 and L3 can be covered by JAG. I also don't care about the money side; the whole reason I'm working right now is to be able to afford it. I'm more than happy to spend the money on a law degree.

Undergraduate degree is American.

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Re: Early Decision decisions

Postby cavalier1138 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:35 pm

I'm extremely confused by the first part of your plan. How do you think that serving in JAG will lead to you being hired as a con law professor? What constitutional issues do you expect to be devoting significant research time to while you're handling UCMJ issues for six years?

Also, I think you switched congressional politics and state politics, unless you were referring to becoming governor of California.

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Re: Early Decision decisions

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:39 pm

Yeah, JAG to con law professor is not at all a clear progression. That's not how you get a con law prof gig. (Of which there are very few and a million interested candidates because it has probably the lowest barrier to entry.) I also don't think being a con law prof is going to get you into local politics, but eh.

Also, the kind of military law that you'll be dealing with as a JAG is the law that governs military members, not law about what the military as a whole does - not sure where international law comes into that. And make no mistake, you are part of the war-making capacity of the military. If you would have a problem serving in the military you should have the same problem being a JAG.\\

(To the extent JAG plays into this, you'd probably have more luck going JAG --> AUSA/ADA --> local politics in the city you were a prosecutor, but it sort of doesn't sound like you want to be a prosecutor.)

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Re: Early Decision decisions

Postby natural_law » Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:41 pm

To be honest, the professorship is something that is newish to the plan. I am thinking more along the lines of professor of politics teaching classes related to constitutional law at undergrad level, not JD professor. I wrote con law professor because it is still be integrated into my thinking and we're on a legal forum.

And yes, that is what I am referring to.

Anyway, I need to work on the PS now, have a good one.

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Re: Early Decision decisions

Postby natural_law » Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:43 pm

P.S. Prosecutor was the original plan, not professor. Ever since watching Juan Martinez destroy Jodi Arias on the stand it has been on my mind.

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Re: Early Decision decisions

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:44 pm

natural_law wrote:To be honest, the professorship is something that is newish to the plan. I am thinking more along the lines of professor of politics teaching classes related to constitutional law at undergrad level, not JD professor. I wrote con law professor because it is still be integrated into my thinking and we're on a legal forum.

And yes, that is what I am referring to.

Anyway, I need to work on the PS now, have a good one.

If you want to be a professor of politics at the undergrad level you are going to need a PhD in political science.

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Re: Early Decision decisions

Postby natural_law » Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:52 pm

Like I said, not well formulated. We're back to prosecutor.

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Re: Early Decision decisions

Postby cavalier1138 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:53 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
natural_law wrote:To be honest, the professorship is something that is newish to the plan. I am thinking more along the lines of professor of politics teaching classes related to constitutional law at undergrad level, not JD professor. I wrote con law professor because it is still be integrated into my thinking and we're on a legal forum.

And yes, that is what I am referring to.

Anyway, I need to work on the PS now, have a good one.

If you want to be a professor of politics at the undergrad level you are going to need a PhD in political science.


^This.

For someone who spent so much time thinking this through, I'm surprised that you haven't at least consulted with one or two people in these fields to learn how they got there and what the reality of their job is. If you want to teach at the undergraduate level, no halfway-sane professor would tell you to get a JD.

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Re: Early Decision decisions

Postby natural_law » Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:55 pm

......

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Re: Early Decision decisions

Postby echonov » Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:56 pm

natural_law wrote:No, I am going to law school because it is training that will help me further a just society in anyway that I can.

I don't want to go into politics. I want to live on a farm and raise a garden and some animals.

But unfortunately that would not sit well with my conscience.

I know how I want to help - the LVT - and I know that it will require political power. The rational thing is to position oneself for the office that will have the greatest power to create that reality.

If someone else wants to do it and is capable, then I would gladly go to my farm and surf my life away. But I have never met anyone in my life who a) is familiar with this specific policy, and b) is in a position to make it happen. So I work to put myself in that position.

JAG is military service which has political significance. I also want to do it for its own sake. I think it's pretty ridiculous for you to say that it isn't a viable path, since there are clearly an infinite number of viable paths into politics.

So really you're a bit of a judgmental ass whose ego gets offended by other people's ambition. And it's not even ambition, it's just what I am doing with my life. And for some reason that turns you into an assumption-making, unhelpful, and rude internet crusader.


You have to see how you're coming off here, right? To take a narrow focus, Dcc617, to whom I assume this is being directed, has been seriously nothing but helpful in this thread. They haven't been mean, judgmental, or rude -- they have offered legitimate advice (do your research, some of your assumptions are incorrect) based on their life experience, which seems more extensive than yours (though to be fair, I don't know them).

You have explained what you want to do and how you want to get there. Lots of people with valuable insight and experience that you don't have have tried to explain to you that you may be misinformed about various pieces of your plan, and that there may be different or better ways to accomplish your goals. Your response has been consistently condescending and defensive. If you're just looking for affirmations that you're the smartest person out there with the best possible plan to accomplish the most brilliant policy goal ever developed, this probably isn't the place to look for that. Your plan is flawed, and you are misinformed about aspects of it. People are trying to help. You'd be much better served by listening and asking questions than ignoring and insulting people.

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Re: Early Decision decisions

Postby natural_law » Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:25 pm

echonov wrote:
natural_law wrote:No, I am going to law school because it is training that will help me further a just society in anyway that I can.

I don't want to go into politics. I want to live on a farm and raise a garden and some animals.

But unfortunately that would not sit well with my conscience.

I know how I want to help - the LVT - and I know that it will require political power. The rational thing is to position oneself for the office that will have the greatest power to create that reality.

If someone else wants to do it and is capable, then I would gladly go to my farm and surf my life away. But I have never met anyone in my life who a) is familiar with this specific policy, and b) is in a position to make it happen. So I work to put myself in that position.

JAG is military service which has political significance. I also want to do it for its own sake. I think it's pretty ridiculous for you to say that it isn't a viable path, since there are clearly an infinite number of viable paths into politics.

So really you're a bit of a judgmental ass whose ego gets offended by other people's ambition. And it's not even ambition, it's just what I am doing with my life. And for some reason that turns you into an assumption-making, unhelpful, and rude internet crusader.


You have to see how you're coming off here, right? To take a narrow focus, Dcc617, to whom I assume this is being directed, has been seriously nothing but helpful in this thread. They haven't been mean, judgmental, or rude -- they have offered legitimate advice (do your research, some of your assumptions are incorrect) based on their life experience, which seems more extensive than yours (though to be fair, I don't know them).

You have explained what you want to do and how you want to get there. Lots of people with valuable insight and experience that you don't have have tried to explain to you that you may be misinformed about various pieces of your plan, and that there may be different or better ways to accomplish your goals. Your response has been consistently condescending and defensive. If you're just looking for affirmations that you're the smartest person out there with the best possible plan to accomplish the most brilliant policy goal ever developed, this probably isn't the place to look for that. Your plan is flawed, and you are misinformed about aspects of it. People are trying to help. You'd be much better served by listening and asking questions than ignoring and insulting people.


It was directed at cavalier, not Dcc617. I only just worked out how to quote. Trust me, he was deserving of a rebuke.

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Re: Early Decision decisions

Postby guynourmin » Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:49 pm

I get that this probably won't lead to changing your mind, but can anyone else confirm what I think might be a better path for the LVT idea: something like a phd in economics? Become an expert in it - probably a professor with an emphasis on policy work? Maybe end up working for some liberal think tank down the line? Then you get in the ear of politicians. Only then it would be as a leading expert in the field instead of someone who thinks they know of a really good idea and is just working for 40 years to get to a place where they can implement it. You would also have the added bonus of doing decades of substantial work advocating for your idea specifically: you could write books about it, teach classes, travel around the world lecturing about it, etc.

Just a thought!

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Re: Early Decision decisions

Postby cavalier1138 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:56 pm

guybourdin wrote:I get that this probably won't lead to changing your mind, but can anyone else confirm what I think might be a better path for the LVT idea: something like a phd in economics? Become an expert in it - probably a professor with an emphasis on policy work? Maybe end up working for some liberal think tank down the line? Then you get in the ear of politicians. Only then it would be as a leading expert in the field instead of someone who thinks they know of a really good idea and is just working for 40 years to get to a place where they can implement it. You would also have the added bonus of doing decades of substantial work advocating for your idea specifically: you could write books about it, teach classes, travel around the world lecturing about it, etc.

Just a thought!


Of course that's a better choice. But do you see any presidents with doctorates? This guy is the only person in the world who is thinking about this issue, and if further schooling isn't going to fast-track him to the presidency, it just ain't worth it. Get with the program!

Fun fact: Woodrow Wilson is the only president to have a PhD.



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