Regional Law Schools For Those Without Ties

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cantyoloforever

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Regional Law Schools For Those Without Ties

Postby cantyoloforever » Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:35 pm

Would going to a regional law school like Arizona State or USC be a bad idea for someone who has few (if any) ties to that area of the country? Would I have a hard time getting a job knowing few people, and zero lawyers, at median from these schools? What are some good resources for an ill informed person about employment stats and what not? Can I trust law school websites?

I like the idea of living in Arizona or southern California, but maybe I'd be horribly wrong; after all, I do hate traffic :?

Edit - also considering Colorado, UCLA, and Emory. However, to make this thread more general and helpful to other people, the core question is, what can someone expect from going to a regional law school at median without ties?

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Regional Law Schools For Those Without Ties

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:25 pm

The best source for employment info is lawschooltransparency.com.

There are many people here who will tell you not to go to a regional school without ties, but I don't agree. I think it is possible to go to a regional school and develop ties to enable you to get a job in that region after graduation. It depends on a number of factors:

- what does that legal market look like? how big and how many schools are there? on the one hand, the smaller the market, the more insular it is, which tends to favor locals. On the other hand, the fewer schools in the area, the easier it is to make connections through going there. Like, if you want to work in Montana, it's a very small market and people will know each other and you will be the outsider. On the other hand, the U of Montana law school is the only game in town, and is going to have a really strong alumni network, and there's not much reason for you to go to U of Montana unless you want to work in Montana, so you're showing a dedication to the region.

- what kind of work do you want to do and is it realistic for that region? Montana is not going to offer a lot of biglaw jobs (well, it's not going to offer a lot of jobs, period), and a lot of regional schools are not going to be good places for biglaw or bust. But if you're interested in local DA/PD/mid- to small-firm/local government kinds of jobs in the region where the law school is located, then the regional schools can be a good deal. You do just want to consider the overall employment rates and think about how many new lawyers that market can absorb each year.

- how willing are you to network/volunteer/get experience/get to know people? If you're looking for a school where you can just go to class, get good grades, go through OCI, and get a job locked up before 2L starts, going to a regional school is going to be risky. If you want to get involved/join the local bar/go to inns of court/volunteer in different fields, then you can do well out of a regional school (or at least, you won't be disadvantaged over local students. You will still have to grapple with placement rates, since regional schools have lower employment numbers overall than national schools do. You will have to decide how much risk you're comfortable with.)

Re: being at median, usually at regional schools a lot of students are going to end up in the local DA/PD/small law kinds of jobs, and a lot of those employers actually don't care much about grades - it's much more about networking and getting experience and getting to know people in the field. Again, if you're aiming for biglaw, you're going to need higher grades at regional schools than you will from the T14 (probably significantly higher), and at median this probably won't be available to you.

I should also say that of the schools you've mentioned, UCLA/USC are a bit different from, say, Colorado and Arizona State, because of location and size of market - the Arizona/Colorado markets are very very different from LA, much smaller. (I don't really know enough about Atlanta/the southeast to comment on Emory). My comments above are more directed toward the ASU/CU type schools than USC/UCLA, which are a little more national/biglaw in orientation.

It's true that having ties to a region can help you, but you're not doomed if you're not from the region - going to the regional school is a sign of commitment. You may have to be a bit more proactive, is all. I should also probably mention that for the top jobs especially you're going to be competing with locals who went away to T14/national schools and are coming back after graduation - in some regional markets, these people suck up a lot of the few biglaw jobs.

Also, this all presumes you're looking for a job in the region where the school is located. Going to a regional school to work in another region entirely - well, you can do it (I know a few who did), but it is definitely going to make things harder for yourself. (Don't be the one guy who went to my school based almost entirely on the rankings expecting it to get him biglaw across the country. Amazingly, he succeeded, but I think he has connections, and he spent the 3 years complaining about how our career office was too focused on the local market.)

LikelyThrowaway

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Re: Regional Law Schools For Those Without Ties

Postby LikelyThrowaway » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:21 pm

Every law student needs at least a couple ties. Get something with diagonal stripes, you can't go too wrong with those.

cantyoloforever

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Re: Regional Law Schools For Those Without Ties

Postby cantyoloforever » Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:37 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:The best source for employment info is lawschooltransparency.com.

There are many people here who will tell you not to go to a regional school without ties, but I don't agree. I think it is possible to go to a regional school and develop ties to enable you to get a job in that region after graduation. It depends on a number of factors:


Thank you so much! Your post is exactly the kind of info I was looking for. Sounds like going to a school like Colorado or Arizona State wouldn't be a great idea if you did not know for sure if you want to spend your career practicing in that state/region. You've given me a lot to think about...

cantyoloforever

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Re: Regional Law Schools For Those Without Ties

Postby cantyoloforever » Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:38 pm

LikelyThrowaway wrote:Every law student needs at least a couple ties. Get something with diagonal stripes, you can't go too wrong with those.

I literally lol at this comment

Lord Randolph McDuff

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Re: Regional Law Schools For Those Without Ties

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:50 pm

You build ties where you go to school, unless that school has a reputation for sending people all over the country. If you attend and graduate from Arizona State, you will have a strong "tie" to the Arizona legal community.

dabigchina

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Re: Regional Law Schools For Those Without Ties

Postby dabigchina » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:00 pm

fwiw i think USC and UCLA w/o ties is much more defensible than the other schools you have listed.

eta: scooped by nony

cantyoloforever

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Re: Regional Law Schools For Those Without Ties

Postby cantyoloforever » Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:45 am

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:You build ties where you go to school, unless that school has a reputation for sending people all over the country. If you attend and graduate from Arizona State, you will have a strong "tie" to the Arizona legal community.

Makes sense. But if someone (me lol) is from the Midwest, goes to Arizona State, finds out they don't want to live in the desert the rest of their life (or at least for a considerable amount of time), how difficult would it be for them to either go back to their home region or somewhere else? I imagine it wouldn't pan out very well.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Regional Law Schools For Those Without Ties

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:29 am

cantyoloforever wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:You build ties where you go to school, unless that school has a reputation for sending people all over the country. If you attend and graduate from Arizona State, you will have a strong "tie" to the Arizona legal community.

Makes sense. But if someone (me lol) is from the Midwest, goes to Arizona State, finds out they don't want to live in the desert the rest of their life (or at least for a considerable amount of time), how difficult would it be for them to either go back to their home region or somewhere else? I imagine it wouldn't pan out very well.

Yeah, it's not impossible, but you're definitely going to make things harder for yourself. If you work for a while in Arizona and get good experience it can help in making a later move, but it's easier if you start out where you want to practice long-term.

cantyoloforever

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Re: Regional Law Schools For Those Without Ties

Postby cantyoloforever » Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:51 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
cantyoloforever wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:You build ties where you go to school, unless that school has a reputation for sending people all over the country. If you attend and graduate from Arizona State, you will have a strong "tie" to the Arizona legal community.

Makes sense. But if someone (me lol) is from the Midwest, goes to Arizona State, finds out they don't want to live in the desert the rest of their life (or at least for a considerable amount of time), how difficult would it be for them to either go back to their home region or somewhere else? I imagine it wouldn't pan out very well.

Yeah, it's not impossible, but you're definitely going to make things harder for yourself. If you work for a while in Arizona and get good experience it can help in making a later move, but it's easier if you start out where you want to practice long-term.

Hmmm this is tough....I really like Arizona, but I've only visited for short term stays. Hard to say if I wouldn't get tired of the desert and start craving woodlands again. Guess that's the advantage of going t14...

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GriefBacon

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Re: Regional Law Schools For Those Without Ties

Postby GriefBacon » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:38 pm

cantyoloforever wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
cantyoloforever wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:You build ties where you go to school, unless that school has a reputation for sending people all over the country. If you attend and graduate from Arizona State, you will have a strong "tie" to the Arizona legal community.

Makes sense. But if someone (me lol) is from the Midwest, goes to Arizona State, finds out they don't want to live in the desert the rest of their life (or at least for a considerable amount of time), how difficult would it be for them to either go back to their home region or somewhere else? I imagine it wouldn't pan out very well.

Yeah, it's not impossible, but you're definitely going to make things harder for yourself. If you work for a while in Arizona and get good experience it can help in making a later move, but it's easier if you start out where you want to practice long-term.

Hmmm this is tough....I really like Arizona, but I've only visited for short term stays. Hard to say if I wouldn't get tired of the desert and start craving woodlands again. Guess that's the advantage of going t14...


FWIW, Arizona isn't all desert. There are incredibly varied climate regions across the state. Flagstaff, for example, sits at about 7k ft and averages around 100 in of snow a year.

Obviously, the overwhelming majority of legal jobs are in the desert regions of AZ. But when you get sick of the desert/can't handle the dry heat, the forests and mountains and snow are only like 90 min away. (Which, in AZ, is an afternoon trip).

cantyoloforever

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Re: Regional Law Schools For Those Without Ties

Postby cantyoloforever » Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:07 pm

GriefBacon wrote:
cantyoloforever wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
cantyoloforever wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:You build ties where you go to school, unless that school has a reputation for sending people all over the country. If you attend and graduate from Arizona State, you will have a strong "tie" to the Arizona legal community.

Makes sense. But if someone (me lol) is from the Midwest, goes to Arizona State, finds out they don't want to live in the desert the rest of their life (or at least for a considerable amount of time), how difficult would it be for them to either go back to their home region or somewhere else? I imagine it wouldn't pan out very well.

Yeah, it's not impossible, but you're definitely going to make things harder for yourself. If you work for a while in Arizona and get good experience it can help in making a later move, but it's easier if you start out where you want to practice long-term.

Hmmm this is tough....I really like Arizona, but I've only visited for short term stays. Hard to say if I wouldn't get tired of the desert and start craving woodlands again. Guess that's the advantage of going t14...


FWIW, Arizona isn't all desert. There are incredibly varied climate regions across the state. Flagstaff, for example, sits at about 7k ft and averages around 100 in of snow a year.

Obviously, the overwhelming majority of legal jobs are in the desert regions of AZ. But when you get sick of the desert/can't handle the dry heat, the forests and mountains and snow are only like 90 min away. (Which, in AZ, is an afternoon trip).

Hmmm well I'll definitely apply. Guess it's too early to make a decision at this point anyways



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