How much will this C&F issue hurt my chances?

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
blueapron115

New
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:25 pm

How much will this C&F issue hurt my chances?

Postby blueapron115 » Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:12 pm

.
Last edited by blueapron115 on Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

blueapron115

New
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:25 pm

Re: How much will this C&F issue hurt my chances?

Postby blueapron115 » Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:24 am

Any comments will be appreciated!

cavalier1138

Gold
Posts: 4954
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: How much will this C&F issue hurt my chances?

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:01 am

Make sure you explain the issue and take responsibility for it in the disclosure. But yes, treat it seriously. Anything smelling of plagiarism is a big red flag to admissions offices, so you do want to make sure they don't think this is something you're likely to do again.

User avatar
sweets91

Silver
Posts: 763
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:22 am

Re: How much will this C&F issue hurt my chances?

Postby sweets91 » Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:06 am

cavalier1138 wrote:Make sure you explain the issue and take responsibility for it in the disclosure. But yes, treat it seriously. Anything smelling of plagiarism is a big red flag to admissions offices, so you do want to make sure they don't think this is something you're likely to do again.


yeah, I think what could hurt you the most is if you do what you did in your OP and blame the professor and one sentence's similar syntax. Good luck!

Edit: That being said, I don't think it'll prevent you from getting into any schools, no.

blueapron115

New
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:25 pm

Re: How much will this C&F issue hurt my chances?

Postby blueapron115 » Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:15 pm

sweets91 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:Make sure you explain the issue and take responsibility for it in the disclosure. But yes, treat it seriously. Anything smelling of plagiarism is a big red flag to admissions offices, so you do want to make sure they don't think this is something you're likely to do again.


yeah, I think what could hurt you the most is if you do what you did in your OP and blame the professor and one sentence's similar syntax. Good luck!

Edit: That being said, I don't think it'll prevent you from getting into any schools, no.


Thanks so much for your comments. I am not sure how to explain the whole situation in an addendum since that really is what happened. The professor took his rules very seriously and failed my assignment for that one sentence. Should I say something like "this has taught me to take rules even more seriously than before and double-check every detail in my work before turning it in. I know it won't ever happen again and I take full responsibility for what happened"?

cavalier1138

Gold
Posts: 4954
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: How much will this C&F issue hurt my chances?

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:18 pm

blueapron115 wrote:
sweets91 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:Make sure you explain the issue and take responsibility for it in the disclosure. But yes, treat it seriously. Anything smelling of plagiarism is a big red flag to admissions offices, so you do want to make sure they don't think this is something you're likely to do again.


yeah, I think what could hurt you the most is if you do what you did in your OP and blame the professor and one sentence's similar syntax. Good luck!

Edit: That being said, I don't think it'll prevent you from getting into any schools, no.


Thanks so much for your comments. I am not sure how to explain the whole situation in an addendum since that really is what happened. The professor took his rules very seriously and failed my assignment for that one sentence. Should I say something like "this has taught me to take rules even more seriously than before and double-check every detail in my work before turning it in. I know it won't ever happen again and I take full responsibility for what happened"?


Ditch the bit about the professor taking his rules seriously. You plagiarized. You got caught. You have learned how serious an offense that is, and it was a folly of youth. You've learned your lesson, and you have never done anything remotely resembling it since.

User avatar
ArtistOfManliness

Silver
Posts: 590
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:56 pm

Re: How much will this C&F issue hurt my chances?

Postby ArtistOfManliness » Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:40 pm

I'd include the two sentences, too.

User avatar
Clearly

Gold
Posts: 4191
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:09 pm

Re: How much will this C&F issue hurt my chances?

Postby Clearly » Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:08 pm

You can easily craft an addendum that takes responsibility while still evoking the reaction that your infraction was itself really petty. I disagree with posts that suggest you have to make yourself a martyr in order to appear you are willing to accept responsibility.

And no with a good addendum this isn't going to matter.

HonestAdvice

Bronze
Posts: 398
Joined: Tue May 03, 2016 12:33 pm

Re: How much will this C&F issue hurt my chances?

Postby HonestAdvice » Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:13 pm

Were you actually found guilty of misconduct? Your description wasn't clear. Either way, I'd stay away from downplaying the paper's value to your grade. If you weren't found guilty then you might not even have to disclose it, and if you were found guilty the fact you have no motive only hurts you more, because it makes your behavior seem erratic, which is probably worse than the actual conduct. Make it really short, just the facts and end by saying you got an A in the class. By reading that, the reader will assume that the person either felt you didn't cheat or that you rehabilitated yourself. It's the perfect fat, because it downplays the severity of the incident without you saying anything about the incident.

blueapron115

New
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:25 pm

Re: How much will this C&F issue hurt my chances?

Postby blueapron115 » Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:53 pm

HonestAdvice wrote:Were you actually found guilty of misconduct? Your description wasn't clear. Either way, I'd stay away from downplaying the paper's value to your grade. If you weren't found guilty then you might not even have to disclose it, and if you were found guilty the fact you have no motive only hurts you more, because it makes your behavior seem erratic, which is probably worse than the actual conduct. Make it really short, just the facts and end by saying you got an A in the class. By reading that, the reader will assume that the person either felt you didn't cheat or that you rehabilitated yourself. It's the perfect fat, because it downplays the severity of the incident without you saying anything about the incident.


Yes I was found guilty but I appealed the decision. The appeal was denied based on the grounds that the punishment was already lenient (meaning that I wasn't suspended or expelled). I don't know about the motive part. Wouldn't someone who wanted to plagiarize appear more negatively than someone who forgot to check his work more carefully? It wasn't like I lifted entire sentences from a source I didn't acknowledge. The fact that something similar hasn't happened again would suggest that this really was a one-time offense and that I've learned my lesson.

blueapron115

New
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:25 pm

Re: How much will this C&F issue hurt my chances?

Postby blueapron115 » Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:01 pm

Clearly wrote:You can easily craft an addendum that takes responsibility while still evoking the reaction that your infraction was itself really petty. I disagree with posts that suggest you have to make yourself a martyr in order to appear you are willing to accept responsibility.

And no with a good addendum this isn't going to matter.


Yeah I thought so too. I definitely don't want to make it more serious than it is. What would you say are the components of a good addendum? Should I mention any mitigating circumstances (my cat was really ill at that time) or does that seem like I'm making excuses for my behavior? Also I didn't initially accept the accusation and appealed but my appeal was denied. Should I mention this or does it make me look as if I wasn't willing to take full responsibility for my action?

cavalier1138

Gold
Posts: 4954
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: How much will this C&F issue hurt my chances?

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:07 pm

blueapron115 wrote:
HonestAdvice wrote:Were you actually found guilty of misconduct? Your description wasn't clear. Either way, I'd stay away from downplaying the paper's value to your grade. If you weren't found guilty then you might not even have to disclose it, and if you were found guilty the fact you have no motive only hurts you more, because it makes your behavior seem erratic, which is probably worse than the actual conduct. Make it really short, just the facts and end by saying you got an A in the class. By reading that, the reader will assume that the person either felt you didn't cheat or that you rehabilitated yourself. It's the perfect fat, because it downplays the severity of the incident without you saying anything about the incident.


Yes I was found guilty but I appealed the decision. The appeal was denied based on the grounds that the punishment was already lenient (meaning that I wasn't suspended or expelled). I don't know about the motive part. Wouldn't someone who wanted to plagiarize appear more negatively than someone who forgot to check his work more carefully? It wasn't like I lifted entire sentences from a source I didn't acknowledge. The fact that something similar hasn't happened again would suggest that this really was a one-time offense and that I've learned my lesson.


See, this is the attitude you don't want to present to an admissions office.

You deliberately plagiarized. You clearly wanted to plagiarize, because if you didn't want to, you wouldn't have plagiarized. Plagiarism isn't one of those academic offenses that you trip and fall into. You cannot copy someone else's work unintentionally; that's a literal impossibility.

If you keep trying to unload responsibility onto the professor being too stringent, the offense not being too bad, etc., it will look far worse to any reader than a frank and simple admission to what happened and explanation that you've learned your lesson.

blueapron115

New
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:25 pm

Re: How much will this C&F issue hurt my chances?

Postby blueapron115 » Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:15 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
blueapron115 wrote:
HonestAdvice wrote:Were you actually found guilty of misconduct? Your description wasn't clear. Either way, I'd stay away from downplaying the paper's value to your grade. If you weren't found guilty then you might not even have to disclose it, and if you were found guilty the fact you have no motive only hurts you more, because it makes your behavior seem erratic, which is probably worse than the actual conduct. Make it really short, just the facts and end by saying you got an A in the class. By reading that, the reader will assume that the person either felt you didn't cheat or that you rehabilitated yourself. It's the perfect fat, because it downplays the severity of the incident without you saying anything about the incident.


Yes I was found guilty but I appealed the decision. The appeal was denied based on the grounds that the punishment was already lenient (meaning that I wasn't suspended or expelled). I don't know about the motive part. Wouldn't someone who wanted to plagiarize appear more negatively than someone who forgot to check his work more carefully? It wasn't like I lifted entire sentences from a source I didn't acknowledge. The fact that something similar hasn't happened again would suggest that this really was a one-time offense and that I've learned my lesson.


See, this is the attitude you don't want to present to an admissions office.

You deliberately plagiarized. You clearly wanted to plagiarize, because if you didn't want to, you wouldn't have plagiarized. Plagiarism isn't one of those academic offenses that you trip and fall into. You cannot copy someone else's work unintentionally; that's a literal impossibility.

If you keep trying to unload responsibility onto the professor being too stringent, the offense not being too bad, etc., it will look far worse to any reader than a frank and simple admission to what happened and explanation that you've learned your lesson.


I have to disagree. There is such a thing as unintentional plagiarism especially given the nature of the assignment (a review of an academic article). If it were intentional, I would have been suspended. Both the prof and the school administration knew that this wasn't intentional. I have never wanted to plagiarize. I wrote my review article and didn't think of going back and checking the original article to see if I unintentionally wrote something similar, which I learned was a mistake. But that does not mean I wanted to copy a sentence in the first place because anyone would know that is against the rules.

cavalier1138

Gold
Posts: 4954
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: How much will this C&F issue hurt my chances?

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:24 pm

blueapron115 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
blueapron115 wrote:
HonestAdvice wrote:Were you actually found guilty of misconduct? Your description wasn't clear. Either way, I'd stay away from downplaying the paper's value to your grade. If you weren't found guilty then you might not even have to disclose it, and if you were found guilty the fact you have no motive only hurts you more, because it makes your behavior seem erratic, which is probably worse than the actual conduct. Make it really short, just the facts and end by saying you got an A in the class. By reading that, the reader will assume that the person either felt you didn't cheat or that you rehabilitated yourself. It's the perfect fat, because it downplays the severity of the incident without you saying anything about the incident.


Yes I was found guilty but I appealed the decision. The appeal was denied based on the grounds that the punishment was already lenient (meaning that I wasn't suspended or expelled). I don't know about the motive part. Wouldn't someone who wanted to plagiarize appear more negatively than someone who forgot to check his work more carefully? It wasn't like I lifted entire sentences from a source I didn't acknowledge. The fact that something similar hasn't happened again would suggest that this really was a one-time offense and that I've learned my lesson.


See, this is the attitude you don't want to present to an admissions office.

You deliberately plagiarized. You clearly wanted to plagiarize, because if you didn't want to, you wouldn't have plagiarized. Plagiarism isn't one of those academic offenses that you trip and fall into. You cannot copy someone else's work unintentionally; that's a literal impossibility.

If you keep trying to unload responsibility onto the professor being too stringent, the offense not being too bad, etc., it will look far worse to any reader than a frank and simple admission to what happened and explanation that you've learned your lesson.


I have to disagree. There is such a thing as unintentional plagiarism especially given the nature of the assignment (a review of an academic article). If it were intentional, I would have been suspended. Both the prof and the school administration knew that this wasn't intentional. I have never wanted to plagiarize. I wrote my review article and didn't think of going back and checking the original article to see if I unintentionally wrote something similar, which I learned was a mistake. But that does not mean I wanted to copy a sentence in the first place because anyone would know that is against the rules.


Well, you're welcome to believe that. But as I said, that comes off as unloading responsibility onto others for your actions. You do you, but HonestAdvice gave you... honest advice.... If you write the statement as they recommended, it will work in your favor. If you write it with the current attempts you're making at justification, I guarantee it will look bad.

User avatar
Mr. Archer

Bronze
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:08 pm

Re: How much will this C&F issue hurt my chances?

Postby Mr. Archer » Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:50 pm

You should listen to everyone saying not to justify the situation. Think about how many people get accepted to law school with much worse C&F issues. You just need to own what happened and not make it a bigger deal by shifting blame. A straightforward explanation should be enough. It's not like you got suspended or failed the class.

HonestAdvice

Bronze
Posts: 398
Joined: Tue May 03, 2016 12:33 pm

Re: How much will this C&F issue hurt my chances?

Postby HonestAdvice » Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:07 pm

I forget what the initial question was, but this will probably have a bigger impact on law school admissions than on your C&F application. If you're curious as to why I say this, feel free to PM.

As a general matter, these kinds of issues will make your cycle somewhat unpredictable. Some schools won't care at all, some will care a lot and some will offer you less money than they otherwise would, because they'll assume your bargaining position is lower. There's no correlation to rank - it's really just random. A TT might reject you straight up for something like this, and Harvard might not give a rat's ass. For this reason, it's samrt to apply to a boatload of schools because you're probably gonna want a bargaining chip but have no idea which schools won't care at all.



Return to “Law School Admissions Forum�

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests