Splitter, 3.0 undergrad GPA; 3.7 grad school GPA; 168 LSAT and 5 Years Professional Experience

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nova1017

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Splitter, 3.0 undergrad GPA; 3.7 grad school GPA; 168 LSAT and 5 Years Professional Experience

Postby nova1017 » Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:49 am

Hi,

New to the forum and am seeking advice about law school admissions/applications.

My undergrad GPA is a 3.0 (it sucks, I know- Can't change it now).

I did much better in graduate school (liberal arts) and my GOA is a 3.7.

I've worked professionally for Disney in marketing and creative problem solving for a couple years and have a lot of volunteer/nonprofit projects/experience under my belt as well. Not sure it matters at this point but I also am published from my grad school days (in a scholarly journal) and have been recognized for diversity efforts as well as for leadership ability.

I'm taking the December LSAT (which I've gathered is going to hurt me- but I've talked to various people in law school, working for law schools, admission consultants etc and they say it really won't make that much of a difference) but my lowest practice test so far is a 168 so I'm going with that number to give me the most realistic sense of what schools I'm looking at.

I'd love to go to NYU, Columbia or Georgetown.

Any constructive advice or insight about my chances is much appreciated.
Last edited by nova1017 on Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

HYPSM

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Re: Splitter, 3.0 undergrad GPA; 3.7 grad school GPA; 168 LSAT and 5 Years Professional Experience

Postby HYPSM » Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:00 am

nova1017 wrote:Hi,

New to the forum and am seeking advice about law school admissions/applications.

My undergrad GPA is a 3.0 (it sucks, I know- Can't change it now).

I did much better in graduate school (liberal arts) and my GOA is a 3.7.

I've worked professionally for Disney in marketing and creative problem solving for a couple years and have a lot of volunteer/nonprofit projects/experience under my belt as well. Not sure it matters at this point but I also am published from my grad school days (in a scholarly journal) and have been recognized for diversity efforts as well as for leadership ability.

I'm taking the December LSAT (which I've gathered is going to hurt me- but I've talked to various people in law school, 294@8'f for law schools, admission consultants etc and they say it really won't make that much of a difference) but my lowest practice test so far is a 168 so I'm going with that number to give me the most realistic sense of what schools I'm looking at.

I'd love to go to NYU, Columbia or Georgetown.

Any constructive advice or insight about my chances is much appreciated.


Hi, so unfortunately, grad school GPAs and softs count for very little for law school admissions, which is mostly a numbers game.

It is essentially going to come down to your LSAT and undergrad GPA.

Refer to "MyLSN," which is known to be fairly accurate. I've submitted your numbers for you: http://mylsn.info/pauczz/

nova1017

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Re: Splitter, 3.0 undergrad GPA; 3.7 grad school GPA; 168 LSAT and 5 Years Professional Experience

Postby nova1017 » Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:15 am

Thanks for the info! I am very well aware that it is all about the LSAT and GPA. I'm hoping my actual test will be closer to my higher LSAT practice tests (which are currently have a high of 179 with a consistent score of over 170 over the last several tests. I used the 168 because it is my lowest so I want to be prepared in case I get that score day of).

I have one soft I didn't mention- overcoming a life threatening illness. I'm hoping that experience will set me apart a bit, though I'm not counting on it.

It's a shame they don't count graduate GPAs. I was number one in my grad school class and those grades were not inflated. Most people got Cs- it was a real bell curve grading style.

I suppose I'll just have to continue busting my butt on the LSAT and hoping a high score is enough to compensate for my low undergrad GPA.
Last edited by nova1017 on Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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pleasesendhelp

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Re: Splitter, 3.0 undergrad GPA; 3.7 grad school GPA; 168 LSAT and 5 Years Professional Experience

Postby pleasesendhelp » Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:33 am

nova1017 wrote:Thanks for the info! I am very well aware that it is all about the LSAT and GPA. I'm hoping my actual test will be closer to my higher LSAT practice tests (which are currently have a high of 175 with a consistent score of over 170 over the last several tests. I used the 168 because it is my lowest so I want to be prepared in case I get that score day of).

I have one soft I didn't mention- overcoming a life threatening illness. I'm hoping that experience will set me apart a bit, though I'm not counting on it.

It's a shame they don't count graduate GPAs. I was number one in my grad school class and those grades were not inflated. Most people got Cs- it was a real bell curve grading style.

I suppose I'll just have to continue busting my butt on the LSAT and hoping a high score is enough to compensate for my low undergrad GPA.


From what I've garnered from lurking around the boards is that if you can manage a 170+ you stand a legitimate shot at Northwestern and Georgetown. However, that is with an ED or an application sent in before the end of this year, preferably november. Since that's impossible for you, I'd play up your work experience since it can help (particularly for Northwestern) to distance yourself from your uGPA. Also your life threatening illness should be mentioned in an addendum to help explain a low uGPA, but this will really only help if it coincided with the period of your undergraduate studies. If not, it does provide good material for a personal statement, which for you, has to be amazing. If you manage a 175+ you've got a shot at NYU with about, but unfortunately 0% of applicants with 3.0/170+ have been accepted to Columbia in the past 5 years (http://mylsn.info/qtns9e/). It helps if you're an apache helicopter (URM).

An option you can take is to submit your application before your LSAT score comes out. I'd only do this if you're confident you're not going to take it again after December.

Focus on your LSAT! Goodluck!

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Specter1389

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Re: Splitter, 3.0 undergrad GPA; 3.7 grad school GPA; 168 LSAT and 5 Years Professional Experience

Postby Specter1389 » Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:26 am

I had similar numbers last year when I applied, 3.0 undergrad GPA, 3.9 graduate school GPA, 170 LSAT. I only got into Virginia and Georgetown in the T-14. I applied to both of them in September of last year with a 166 but scored a 170 on my retake in December. I was admitted to both a week after my updated score came out and Georgetown eventually offered me a $75k scholarship. I also applied to Northwestern in September but was waitlisted before my updated score came in. After I scored my 170, I applied to the rest of the T-14 except Yale. I was waitlisted at Columbia, Chicago, Penn, Michigan, and Duke. I was denied to Harvard, Stanford, NYU, Berkeley, and Cornell. I think if I had applied in September with a 170, I might have gotten into a couple of the schools I was waitlisted for. Conventional wisdom is the earlier you apply, the better your chances are of acceptance. I think this is especially true for splitters. If you don't get a good outcome in regards to acceptances and scholarships, might be worth it to not enroll anywhere and reapply at the beginning of next cycle/retake in December for a higher score.

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Lexaholik

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Re: Splitter, 3.0 undergrad GPA; 3.7 grad school GPA; 168 LSAT and 5 Years Professional Experience

Postby Lexaholik » Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:08 am

Specter1389 wrote:I had similar numbers last year when I applied, 3.0 undergrad GPA, 3.9 graduate school GPA, 170 LSAT. I only got into Virginia and Georgetown in the T-14. I applied to both of them in September of last year with a 166 but scored a 170 on my retake in December. I was admitted to both a week after my updated score came out and Georgetown eventually offered me a $75k scholarship. I also applied to Northwestern in September but was waitlisted before my updated score came in. After I scored my 170, I applied to the rest of the T-14 except Yale. I was waitlisted at Columbia, Chicago, Penn, Michigan, and Duke. I was denied to Harvard, Stanford, NYU, Berkeley, and Cornell. I think if I had applied in September with a 170, I might have gotten into a couple of the schools I was waitlisted for. Conventional wisdom is the earlier you apply, the better your chances are of acceptance. I think this is especially true for splitters. If you don't get a good outcome in regards to acceptances and scholarships, might be worth it to not enroll anywhere and reapply at the beginning of next cycle/retake in December for a higher score.


(Not OP) Wow so you never got in off the WL at Northwestern? Would you do the same thing again--applying with a lower score, then retaking, then sending a higher new score? Or would you wait until you got the 170 and then start applying afterwards?

OP: I hate to break it to you but your soft factors aren't going to matter all that much. Not because they're not impressive. But because the way the system is set up, schools have no incentive to weigh heavily anything other than GPA/LSAT. If you're scoring 170-175 on practice tests, kudos to you. A 3.0 and 170+ will get you into some great schools.

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Specter1389

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Re: Splitter, 3.0 undergrad GPA; 3.7 grad school GPA; 168 LSAT and 5 Years Professional Experience

Postby Specter1389 » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:59 am

Lexaholik wrote:
Specter1389 wrote:I had similar numbers last year when I applied, 3.0 undergrad GPA, 3.9 graduate school GPA, 170 LSAT. I only got into Virginia and Georgetown in the T-14. I applied to both of them in September of last year with a 166 but scored a 170 on my retake in December. I was admitted to both a week after my updated score came out and Georgetown eventually offered me a $75k scholarship. I also applied to Northwestern in September but was waitlisted before my updated score came in. After I scored my 170, I applied to the rest of the T-14 except Yale. I was waitlisted at Columbia, Chicago, Penn, Michigan, and Duke. I was denied to Harvard, Stanford, NYU, Berkeley, and Cornell. I think if I had applied in September with a 170, I might have gotten into a couple of the schools I was waitlisted for. Conventional wisdom is the earlier you apply, the better your chances are of acceptance. I think this is especially true for splitters. If you don't get a good outcome in regards to acceptances and scholarships, might be worth it to not enroll anywhere and reapply at the beginning of next cycle/retake in December for a higher score.


(Not OP) Wow so you never got in off the WL at Northwestern? Would you do the same thing again--applying with a lower score, then retaking, then sending a higher new score? Or would you wait until you got the 170 and then start applying afterwards?

OP: I hate to break it to you but your soft factors aren't going to matter all that much. Not because they're not impressive. But because the way the system is set up, schools have no incentive to weigh heavily anything other than GPA/LSAT. If you're scoring 170-175 on practice tests, kudos to you. A 3.0 and 170+ will get you into some great schools.

Correct, I didn't get into Northwestern even after the updated scores came in. I originally applied ED and was placed on hold and then never heard anything back.

I originally applied so early because I was attempting to do the Air Force's Funded Legal Education Program, but unfortunately I was blocked from putting an application into the program by my current career field management team. I ended up deferring to UVA because I will have 60% of the GI Bill when I attend which is basically the equivalent of a $130k scholarship. If I didn't have the GI Bill, I would have retaken a third time this past June and reapplied everywhere again.
Last edited by Specter1389 on Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Clearly

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Re: Splitter, 3.0 undergrad GPA; 3.7 grad school GPA; 168 LSAT and 5 Years Professional Experience

Postby Clearly » Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:44 am

What do you expect us to tell you? You won't have good options if you score a 168, you'll have much better options if you score a 175. I suspect you knew that.

nova1017

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Re: Splitter, 3.0 undergrad GPA; 3.7 grad school GPA; 168 LSAT and 5 Years Professional Experience

Postby nova1017 » Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:00 am

Clearly wrote:What do you expect us to tell you? You won't have good options if you score a 168, you'll have much better options if you score a 175. I suspect you knew that.


Yes, I know my options will be better the higher my LSAT is. Because I haven't taken the LSAT, I was asking because it will shape which schools I apply to. I intend to send my applications in without the LSAT score so that the schools have them and I can be reviewed as soon as my score becomes available.

My last eight practice tests have had scores between 172 and 179. I went with 168 because it was my lowest PT score (but it was months ago). Obviously I will keep studying and keep taking PTs so I can (Hopefully) keep improving or keep my score where it currently is.

Hopefully I'll hit 175 the day of the test.

LawschoolHopeful2k16

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Re: Splitter, 3.0 undergrad GPA; 3.7 grad school GPA; 168 LSAT and 5 Years Professional Experience

Postby LawschoolHopeful2k16 » Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:22 pm

If it's possible, you might want to hold off on applying until next year if you don't knock the LSAT out of the park. Since your undergraduate GPA is so low, your LSAT score is that much more important.

168 and 3.0 and you'd probably have a chance at Georgetown and Northwestern.

Get that up around 170/172 and you can add in UVA.

Get that up around 175, and you can add in NYU, maybe Columbia.

And I'm not too sure how splitter friendly Duke, Cornell, and Michigan are, but if you get a high enough LSAT (anywhere from 170-175 or so, im not too sure) you'd probably have a shot.

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34iplaw

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Re: Splitter, 3.0 undergrad GPA; 3.7 grad school GPA; 168 LSAT and 5 Years Professional Experience

Postby 34iplaw » Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:21 am

LawschoolHopeful2k16 wrote:If it's possible, you might want to hold off on applying until next year if you don't knock the LSAT out of the park. Since your undergraduate GPA is so low, your LSAT score is that much more important.

168 and 3.0 and you'd probably have a chance at Georgetown and Northwestern.

Get that up around 170/172 and you can add in UVA.

Get that up around 175, and you can add in NYU, maybe Columbia.

And I'm not too sure how splitter friendly Duke, Cornell, and Michigan are, but if you get a high enough LSAT (anywhere from 170-175 or so, im not too sure) you'd probably have a shot.


Friend finished up at CLS. Got in with a like 3.2/179. CLS and NYU are probably more likely for a 17x than Cornell which is adverse to splitters it seems. (3.4 applying with what I assume will be a 171-174)



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