168 / 3.51 Top 10 LAC, Asian. Cornell vs NW ED?

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kattakakka

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168 / 3.51 Top 10 LAC, Asian. Cornell vs NW ED?

Postby kattakakka » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:32 pm

Disclaimer: I have two previous LSAT scores 163 (Feb), 166 (Oct) - if that matters. I got my current score two months ago.

1. While I don't have much financial concern, it is certainly better if I could get some money. Yet, I heard that and I think it makes sense that NW ED attracts many students with mid-low 170s LSAT students. Would it be definitely easier to apply Cornell ED?

2. Am I "splitter"?

3. Would it be wiser to apply ED UVa before I apply ED Cornell?

4. Also, is there any chance for PBVM and Duke? I know that NYU is way out of my league but I just decided to apply anyway.

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Re: 168 / 3.51 Top 10 LAC, Asian. Cornell vs NW ED?

Postby ek5dn » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:56 pm

kattakakka wrote:Disclaimer: I have two previous LSAT scores 163 (Feb), 166 (Oct) - if that matters. I got my current score two months ago.

1. While I don't have much financial concern, it is certainly better if I could get some money. Yet, I heard that and I think it makes sense that NW ED attracts many students with mid-low 170s LSAT students. Would it be definitely easier to apply Cornell ED?

2. Am I "splitter"?

3. Would it be wiser to apply ED UVa before I apply ED Cornell?


I'm a bit confused about why you think you're a splitter - not to be unkind, but neither your GPA nor your LSAT score is particularly high. On the positive side, neither of them are particularly low either.

I would check out LSN: http://schools.lawschoolnumbers.com/
idk if the site takes ED into consideration, but you're not looking too great for either schools.

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Re: 168 / 3.51 Top 10 LAC, Asian. Cornell vs NW ED?

Postby kattakakka » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:03 pm

I thought my GPA was too low per LSAT. thanks!

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Re: 168 / 3.51 Top 10 LAC, Asian. Cornell vs NW ED?

Postby galadriel3019 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:47 pm

I would suggest you study the ED policies of schools. They may not allow you to ED at more than one school. You don't want to run afoul of rules like that.

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Re: 168 / 3.51 Top 10 LAC, Asian. Cornell vs NW ED?

Postby runinthefront » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:56 pm

ek5dn wrote:
kattakakka wrote:Disclaimer: I have two previous LSAT scores 163 (Feb), 166 (Oct) - if that matters. I got my current score two months ago.

1. While I don't have much financial concern, it is certainly better if I could get some money. Yet, I heard that and I think it makes sense that NW ED attracts many students with mid-low 170s LSAT students. Would it be definitely easier to apply Cornell ED?

2. Am I "splitter"?

3. Would it be wiser to apply ED UVa before I apply ED Cornell?


I'm a bit confused about why you think you're a splitter - not to be unkind, but neither your GPA nor your LSAT score is particularly high. On the positive side, neither of them are particularly low either.

I would check out LSN: http://schools.lawschoolnumbers.com/
idk if the site takes ED into consideration, but you're not looking too great for either schools.


OP is at or above both Cornell and Northwestern's 2015 LSAT median. I am a bit confused about why you think OP is not a splitter?
Last edited by runinthefront on Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 168 / 3.51 Top 10 LAC, Asian. Cornell vs NW ED?

Postby cavalier1138 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:38 pm

runinthefront wrote:OP is at or above both Cornell and Northwestern's 2015 LSAT median. I am a bit confused about why you think OP is not a splitter?


Splitters are generally at or above 75th percentiles and at or below 25th percentiles for schools. The high score balances out the low grades in a way that a middling score doesn't.

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Re: 168 / 3.51 Top 10 LAC, Asian. Cornell vs NW ED?

Postby ek5dn » Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:03 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
runinthefront wrote:OP is at or above both Cornell and Northwestern's 2015 LSAT median. I am a bit confused about why you think OP is not a splitter?


Splitters are generally at or above 75th percentiles and at or below 25th percentiles for schools. The high score balances out the low grades in a way that a middling score doesn't.

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Re: 168 / 3.51 Top 10 LAC, Asian. Cornell vs NW ED?

Postby runinthefront » Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:07 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
runinthefront wrote:OP is at or above both Cornell and Northwestern's 2015 LSAT median. I am a bit confused about why you think OP is not a splitter?


Splitters are generally at or above 75th percentiles and at or below 25th percentiles for schools. The high score balances out the low grades in a way that a middling score doesn't.

For the past several years (although the tide, as of this year, appears to be turning), the T14 has been throwing absurd amounts of cash around while trying to maintain medians, as the number of high-scoring LSAT takers have continued to decrease. Thus, I thought it was accepted wisdom that being at or above a school's LSAT would be enough to classify you as a splitter and give you a 'splitter's shot' at admission. I certainly believe so, especially since schools have no incentive to try and raise their 75th percentiles, but they have a great incentive to maintain/increase their 50th percentile. That's why I don't think your last point--that a high score balances out low grades in a way that a middling score doesn't--is correct. We're talking about medians, not averages, after all right?

In any event, the 2015 LSAT for the entering class of Northwestern and Cornell was 168 and 167, respectively. I think OP's a splitter (and would be viewed as such) by any adcomm, considering OP would help maintain/increase the median LSAT of both schools.

Thanks for clarifying/offering an alternative definition of "splitter," though! (non-sarcasm). I might be missing something
Last edited by runinthefront on Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 168 / 3.51 Top 10 LAC, Asian. Cornell vs NW ED?

Postby calpolisci2016 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:17 am

runinthefront wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
runinthefront wrote:OP is at or above both Cornell and Northwestern's 2015 LSAT median. I am a bit confused about why you think OP is not a splitter?


Splitters are generally at or above 75th percentiles and at or below 25th percentiles for schools. The high score balances out the low grades in a way that a middling score doesn't.

For the past several years (although the tide, as of this year, appears to be turning), the T14 has been throwing absurd amounts of cash around while trying to maintain medians, as the number of high-scoring LSAT takers have continued to decrease. Thus, I thought it was accepted wisdom that being at or above a school's LSAT would be enough to classify you as a splitter and give you a 'splitter's shot' at admission. I certainly believe so, especially since schools have no incentive to try and raise their 75th percentiles, but they have a great incentive to maintain/increase their 50th percentile. That's why I don't think your last point--that a high score balances out low grades in a way that a middling score doesn't--is correct. We're talking about medians, not averages, after all right?

In any event, the 2015 LSAT for the entering class of Northwestern and Cornell was 168 and 167, respectively. I think OP's a splitter (and would be viewed as such) by any adcomm, considering OP would help maintain/increase the median LSAT of both schools.

Thanks for clarifying/offering an alternative definition of "splitter," though! (non-sarcasm). I might be missing something


You're completely correct and I was going to post this if you didn't. The other dude doesn't know what he's talking about!

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Re: 168 / 3.51 Top 10 LAC, Asian. Cornell vs NW ED?

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:49 pm

calpolisci2016 wrote:You're completely correct and I was going to post this if you didn't. The other dude doesn't know what he's talking about!


No need to be rude.

I didn't create that definition out of whole cloth. It's a commonly accepted definition of "splitter" on these forums.

The rationale also only makes sense if a school doesn't wish to raise its median scores. More people above their current median creates the possibility for upward movement, and it also meshes with actual results (results for low GPA with a median LSAT are worse than low GPA and 75th LSAT).

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Re: 168 / 3.51 Top 10 LAC, Asian. Cornell vs NW ED?

Postby dawnk » Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:16 am

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Re: 168 / 3.51 Top 10 LAC, Asian. Cornell vs NW ED?

Postby TFALAWL » Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:48 am

Re: ED, I'm fairly certain you can only apply to one at a time -- that said they let you know fairly quickly -- when I ED'd UVA I was accepted w/in 3 business days.

Goals: You mention that money isn't a huge concern, but that you would still like some. If you are T-14 or bust, I don't think you will get money from any of them.

Chances:

1. UVA -- it looks like they are trying hard to improve their LSAT stats (smaller class size to bring it back to 169). I just don't think you will be admitted. While there are exceptions, most of my classmates hit median for at least one of LSAT/GPA (this is probably true at every law school).

2. NW -- you won't get in ED: it's super competitive given the scholarship.

3. T-6 is out.

4. If you apply to the lower T-14 I predict one school will bite and you will get WL'ed at the others.


We could better help you if you stated your geographic preferences. For example, I think you'd be competitive at USC or WUSTL w/ $$.

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Re: 168 / 3.51 Top 10 LAC, Asian. Cornell vs NW ED?

Postby TFALAWL » Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:49 am

dawnk wrote:I'm also Asian, Top 10 LAC, LSAT was 170 but similar GPA.
I just started fall semester at a top 5 school, which I thought would be completely out of my league since I have a pretty low GPA and a decent-but-not-amazing-for-top-5 LSAT score.
Not to give you any false hope, but if you have a story to sell and if money is not an issue, I would say definitely consider applying to other T-14 schools as well. GPA & LSAT are pretty important but they are not all, and you might have a better shot than you think.


Your outcome does not surprise me. There is a BIG difference between a 168 and a 170 for admissions purposes.

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Re: 168 / 3.51 Top 10 LAC, Asian. Cornell vs NW ED?

Postby cavalier1138 » Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:13 am

TFALAWL wrote:
dawnk wrote:I'm also Asian, Top 10 LAC, LSAT was 170 but similar GPA.
I just started fall semester at a top 5 school, which I thought would be completely out of my league since I have a pretty low GPA and a decent-but-not-amazing-for-top-5 LSAT score.
Not to give you any false hope, but if you have a story to sell and if money is not an issue, I would say definitely consider applying to other T-14 schools as well. GPA & LSAT are pretty important but they are not all, and you might have a better shot than you think.


Your outcome does not surprise me. There is a BIG difference between a 168 and a 170 for admissions purposes.


This.

I don't know why people think that a point or two on the LSAT isn't a big difference when it's literally the difference in median scores between Georgetown and Chicago. When you're talking about the distinction between a T6 school and the rest of the T14, one or two points is massive.

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Re: 168 / 3.51 Top 10 LAC, Asian. Cornell vs NW ED?

Postby Clearly » Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:42 am

Not that the title matters, but OP isn't a splitter.

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Re: 168 / 3.51 Top 10 LAC, Asian. Cornell vs NW ED?

Postby TheatreofDreams » Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:03 am

TFALAWL wrote:Re: ED, I'm fairly certain you can only apply to one at a time -- that said they let you know fairly quickly -- when I ED'd UVA I was accepted w/in 3 business days.

Goals: You mention that money isn't a huge concern, but that you would still like some. If you are T-14 or bust, I don't think you will get money from any of them.

Chances:

1. UVA -- it looks like they are trying hard to improve their LSAT stats (smaller class size to bring it back to 169). I just don't think you will be admitted. While there are exceptions, most of my classmates hit median for at least one of LSAT/GPA (this is probably true at every law school).

2. NW -- you won't get in ED: it's super competitive given the scholarship.

3. T-6 is out.

4. If you apply to the lower T-14 I predict one school will bite and you will get WL'ed at the others.


We could better help you if you stated your geographic preferences. For example, I think you'd be competitive at USC or WUSTL w/ $$.



The poster above is wrong. My source is that I attend a T-14 with friends that have similar grades/LSAT, including myself.

1. UVA: Good chance of making this happen
2. Less likely. Wouldn't waste ED
3. There is no such thing as a T-6 (look at law school transparency)
4. I predict several will bite.

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Re: 168 / 3.51 Top 10 LAC, Asian. Cornell vs NW ED?

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:23 am

TheatreofDreams wrote:3. There is no such thing as a T-6 (look at law school transparency)


Although people do get a little ridiculous with their subdivisions of the T14, HYSCCN is a pretty commonly accepted grouping of top schools.

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Re: 168 / 3.51 Top 10 LAC, Asian. Cornell vs NW ED?

Postby vcap180 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:46 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
TheatreofDreams wrote:3. There is no such thing as a T-6 (look at law school transparency)


Although people do get a little ridiculous with their subdivisions of the T14, HYSCCN is a pretty commonly accepted grouping of top schools.


In terms of prestige, HYS is really the only sensible subdivision for the T14.

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Re: 168 / 3.51 Top 10 LAC, Asian. Cornell vs NW ED?

Postby WhyYaCryin » Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:11 pm

vcap180 wrote:In terms of prestige, HYS is really the only sensible subdivision for the T14.


Right. There's no prestige gap between Chicago and GULC.

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Re: 168 / 3.51 Top 10 LAC, Asian. Cornell vs NW ED?

Postby vcap180 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:08 pm

WhyYaCryin wrote:
vcap180 wrote:In terms of prestige, HYS is really the only sensible subdivision for the T14.


Right. There's no prestige gap between Chicago and GULC.



Certainly not a very meaningful one, despite what a prelaw oriented forum might have you believe.

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Re: 168 / 3.51 Top 10 LAC, Asian. Cornell vs NW ED?

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:15 pm

vcap180 wrote:
WhyYaCryin wrote:
vcap180 wrote:In terms of prestige, HYS is really the only sensible subdivision for the T14.


Right. There's no prestige gap between Chicago and GULC.



Certainly not a very meaningful one, despite what a prelaw oriented forum might have you believe.


And of course, no one weighs actual job outcomes when determining the top schools, just prestige. Brilliant.

Edit: you're also dead wrong about the comparative prestige of Chicago and Georgetown.

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Re: 168 / 3.51 Top 10 LAC, Asian. Cornell vs NW ED?

Postby vcap180 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:50 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
vcap180 wrote:
WhyYaCryin wrote:
vcap180 wrote:In terms of prestige, HYS is really the only sensible subdivision for the T14.


Right. There's no prestige gap between Chicago and GULC.



Certainly not a very meaningful one, despite what a prelaw oriented forum might have you believe.


And of course, no one weighs actual job outcomes when determining the top schools, just prestige. Brilliant.

Edit: you're also dead wrong about the comparative prestige of Chicago and Georgetown.


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Re: 168 / 3.51 Top 10 LAC, Asian. Cornell vs NW ED?

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:45 pm

I'm sure that your time working at a law firm as a... file clerk/paralegal/whatever... was extremely informative. I also have no idea what vault firm would have an office somewhere between DC and Chicago, but I'll take your word for it.

Nevertheless, employment numbers bear out that Chicago and Georgetown are not equivalent for hiring purposes. No disrespect intended to the gobs of experience you have sitting in close proximity to a hiring partner at a law firm.

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Re: 168 / 3.51 Top 10 LAC, Asian. Cornell vs NW ED?

Postby drillteam » Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:00 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:I'm sure that your time working at a law firm as a... file clerk/paralegal/whatever... was extremely informative. I also have no idea what vault firm would have an office somewhere between DC and Chicago, but I'll take your word for it.

Nevertheless, employment numbers bear out that Chicago and Georgetown are not equivalent for hiring purposes. No disrespect intended to the gobs of experience you have sitting in close proximity to a hiring partner at a law firm.




Just a note--the poster said his firm was "equidistant " from Chicago and Georgetown not "between DC and Chicago". Do the geometry.

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Re: 168 / 3.51 Top 10 LAC, Asian. Cornell vs NW ED?

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:19 pm

drillteam wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:I'm sure that your time working at a law firm as a... file clerk/paralegal/whatever... was extremely informative. I also have no idea what vault firm would have an office somewhere between DC and Chicago, but I'll take your word for it.

Nevertheless, employment numbers bear out that Chicago and Georgetown are not equivalent for hiring purposes. No disrespect intended to the gobs of experience you have sitting in close proximity to a hiring partner at a law firm.




Just a note--the poster said his firm was "equidistant " from Chicago and Georgetown not "between DC and Chicago". Do the geometry.


Yes, I got that. I just substituted "between", because I'm not aware of any V15 firms that have their main headquarters in any cities equidistant from those two places.

Not that it really makes a difference, since this has gotten way off-topic thanks to a 0L who thinks that lawyers aren't prestige-whores.



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