Disclose expunged records?

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bigben
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Re: Disclose expunged records?

Postby bigben » Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:13 pm

I think the question has been answered and we can all move on, despite Trolly's annoying illogical rantings.

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roleary
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Re: Disclose expunged records?

Postby roleary » Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:22 pm

egrubs wrote:I guess it's okay to lie on law school applications, then.

Good to know.

lol... wish id known this in november!! :roll:

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roleary
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Re: Disclose expunged records?

Postby roleary » Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:23 pm

^^^^joking....not serious....

Holly
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Re: Disclose expunged records?

Postby Holly » Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:43 pm

I think the question has been answered and we can all move on, despite Trollys annoying illogical rantings.

------

How are they even remotely illogical.

1. Most states that expunge records specifically state that the record does not need to be disclosed to anyone other than a public institution, even when asked.

2. You do not need to disclose the information to law schools, particularly private ones.

3. Law schools, even if doing a background check, will never find this information if you do not tell them about it. They do not have access to it. Most law school refuse to do background checks anyways.

4. No Bar association has ever rejected a potential lawyer for failure to disclose an expunged arrest on their LAW SCHOOL application. If you are honest on your BAR application (which you are required to disclose expunged arrests, by law, on), you will not have a problem.

5. There is an irrational fear of the C&F examination by the Bar. People think you will face severe consequences for things that you almost certainly will not. Lying about your race for example. No student has ever been rejected or admitted and then rejected from law school or the Bar for lying about your race on a law school application. That certainly does not make it ethical.

Sounds completely illogical to me.

bigben
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Re: Disclose expunged records?

Postby bigben » Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:55 pm

If the law of the state in which you are applying to law school allows you to not report matters which have been expunged, and the school is private, then that school will only ask for "convictions."

You do not need to look any further than the question the school is asking.

The Agitator
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Re: Disclose expunged records?

Postby The Agitator » Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:07 pm

If the law school asked you to name all the people you have had sex with, would you?


Stupidest post of the year.

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brizz9
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Re: Disclose expunged records?

Postby brizz9 » Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:08 pm

The Agitator wrote:
If the law school asked you to name all the people you have had sex with, would you?


Stupidest post of the year.

I started responding to it when she posted it, then decided it was just too stupid to bother with.

Holly
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Re: Disclose expunged records?

Postby Holly » Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:12 pm

If the law of the state in which you are applying to law school allows you to not report matters which have been expunged, and the school is private, then that school will only ask for \"convictions.\"

You do not need to look any further than the question the school is asking.

------

My argument is that even if it says to disclose expunged records you dont have to. Period. If the conviction is expunged, it retroactively didnt happen.

Holly
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Re: Disclose expunged records?

Postby Holly » Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:13 pm

Stupidest post of the year.

-----

I understand that remark is used when you cant argue your position. Good luck in law school.

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Pyke
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Re: Disclose expunged records?

Postby Pyke » Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:37 pm

Is it any surprise I agree with Holly?

The Agitator
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Re: Disclose expunged records?

Postby The Agitator » Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:08 pm

http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/expunge/age ... lowed.html
Relevant Part, for Florida, at least:

Entities That Get Sealed And Expunged Records

The subject of a criminal history record sealed or expunged under this section or under other provisions of law, including former s. 893.14, former s. 901.33, and former s. 943.058, may lawfully deny or fail to acknowledge the arrests covered by the sealed or expunged record, except when the subject of the record:

1. Is a candidate for employment with a criminal justice agency;

2. Is a defendant in a criminal prosecution;

3. Concurrently or subsequently petitions for relief under section 943.0585 or section 943.059;

4. Is a candidate for admission to The Florida Bar; ......................


You're supposed to disclose. Which is why some schools ask for it explicitly. Whether or not you should have to is another story.

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ari20dal7
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Re: Disclose expunged records?

Postby ari20dal7 » Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:10 pm

You're supposed to disclose. Which is why some schools ask for it explicitly. Whether or not you should have to is another story.


Now, Agitator, you know there's no difference between what one should have to do and what one does have to do. It's a higher law - a divine law of conscience.

Obviously, Agitator is right on this: in most cases, the sealed/expunged record doesn't protect you here. I agree with those who say you shouldn't have to disclose, but you usually do.

Holly
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Re: Disclose expunged records?

Postby Holly » Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:34 pm

Youre supposed to disclose. Which is why some schools ask for it explicitly. Whether or not you should have to is another story.

-------

Holy shit. How many times to I have to explain that there is a difference between a Bar application and a law school application. How old are you? 14? This is the second time you have made reference to the bar, which I have repeatedly said is an organization where you are legally required to disclose expungements.

What a tool.
Last edited by Holly on Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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brizz9
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Re: Disclose expunged records?

Postby brizz9 » Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:34 pm

Holly wrote:You\'re supposed to disclose. Which is why some schools ask for it explicitly. Whether or not you should have to is another story.
-------
Holy shit. How many times to I have to explain that there is a difference between a Bar application and a law school application. How old are you? 14?

Don't answer that.

The Agitator
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Re: Disclose expunged records?

Postby The Agitator » Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:41 pm

Yes, I am 14. Boy genius, actually. Like Doogie Howser, but with lawyering instead of doctoring.


Anyway, one final note before I waste any more time: Denying you admittance to the bar is not the only "punishment" they can mete out. Having to wait a few months to be admitted to the bar while they look into a discrepancy (even if nothing ever comes of it) can also be a real hassle, which in the vast majority of cases is not going to be worth it.

Holly
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Re: Disclose expunged records?

Postby Holly » Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:44 pm

Wow, thanks again for not acknowledging your total stupidity.

Please cite ONE case where someone was denied for omitting something on their LAW SCHOOL application. Please, enlighten us.

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brizz9
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Re: Disclose expunged records?

Postby brizz9 » Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:55 pm

Holly wrote:Wow, thanks again for not acknowledging your total stupidity.

Please cite ONE case where someone was denied for omitting something on their LAW SCHOOL application. Please, enlighten us.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=fl&vol=alpha200003%5Cwk1%5Cfl_board_bar_examiners_op_sc_952&invol=1

This dude shot a dog, but the case mentions that "Of even greater concern and further exacerbating the underlying flaws are P.K.B.'s misrepresentations to police attendant to his DUI arrests(1) and his omission and misleading explanation of his prior arrests on his law school application."

I'm sure there are others.

egrubs
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Re: Disclose expunged records?

Postby egrubs » Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:58 pm

How does that phrase go...?

"Don't ask a question for which you don't already know the answer."

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ari20dal7
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Re: Disclose expunged records?

Postby ari20dal7 » Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:59 pm

Yeah, pretty much. Don't lie about shit.

Holly
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Re: Disclose expunged records?

Postby Holly » Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:07 pm

This dude shot a dog, but the case mentions that Of even greater concern and further exacerbating the underlying flaws are P.K.B.s misrepresentations to police attendant to his DUI arrests(1) and his omission and misleading explanation of his prior arrests on his law school application.

I\'m sure there are others.

------------

Where does it say it was expunged? Oh, it doesnt.

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brizz9
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Re: Disclose expunged records?

Postby brizz9 » Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:10 pm

Holly wrote:Wow, thanks again for not acknowledging your total stupidity.

Please cite ONE case where someone was denied for omitting something on their LAW SCHOOL application. Please, enlighten us.


Where does your quote say expunged? Oh wait, it doesn't.

Holly
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Re: Disclose expunged records?

Postby Holly » Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:12 pm

Where does your quote say expunged? Oh wait, it doesn\\\'t.

--------

Have you been following this whole thread? Oh wait, you havent.

Additionally, if THAT is all you have, you have a pretty pathetic case. First, like I said, it has nothing to do with the topic we are talking about: expungement. Second, the guy had a ridiculous amount of issues. He didnt simply omit an expunged record from the application.
Last edited by Holly on Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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brizz9
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Re: Disclose expunged records?

Postby brizz9 » Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:12 pm

http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/January-February-2006/argument_schmoke_janfeb06.msp
"The bar examiners' model Character and Fitness Application has read, "Have you ever been cited, arrested, charged or convicted for any violation of any law other than as a juvenile? (Omit traffic violation.) Note: This should include matters that have been expunged or subject to a diversion program."

So, yeah, lie now, or lie then, you lying liar.
Last edited by brizz9 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Holly
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Re: Disclose expunged records?

Postby Holly » Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:15 pm

\"The bar examiners\' model Character and Fitness Application has read, \"Have you ever been cited, arrested, charged or convicted for any violation of any law other than as a juvenile? (Omit traffic violation.) Note: This should include matters that have been expunged or subject to a diversion program.\"

So, yeah, lie now, or lie then, you lying liar.

-----

WHAT A TARD. Everybody say it with me! THAT IS A BAR APPLICATION!

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brizz9
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Re: Disclose expunged records?

Postby brizz9 » Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:17 pm

No shit. So, according to your logic, you can answer no to a question on one document, and yes to that same question on another document and not be lying?




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