do adcoms know if you apply to multiple schools? Forum

Troianii · Post by **Troianii** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:43 am

Quite simply put, do adcoms know if you apply to multiple schools? I assume the answer is no. I'm just curious because I plan on applying to many law schools, and everything about my app almakes the cycle a little unpredictable. I'm a fairly weak splitter, 3.0/158, white/native, and a veteran. All three on their own make for an unpredictable cycle, from what I've heard, and putting them together I just... I really have a hard time figuring out my chances at schools and so I plan on just applying to many.

Clearly · Post by **Clearly** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:04 am

You should retake the lsat.

benwyatt · Post by **benwyatt** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:37 am

Post removed.

Dexter97 · Post by **Dexter97** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:42 am

I dont think you know what a splitter is....

benwyatt · Post by **benwyatt** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:59 am

Post removed.

A. Nony Mouse · Post by **A. Nony Mouse** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:02 am

Applications often ask where else you're applying. You can answer or not - it doesn't matter. It won't make a difference, how many schools you apply to, or which ones.

Troianii · Post by **Troianii** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:15 am

benwyatt wrote:
Clearly wrote:You should retake the lsat.
Agreed.

I don't know that I would even consider 3.0/158 any kind of splitter.

What are your goals?

"LSAT-median: 155
75th Percentile LSAT: 158
25th Percentile LSAT: 152
GPA-median: 3.44
75th Percentile GPA: 3.71
25th Percentile GPA: 3.16"

Yeah, it makes me a splitter. No, not a splitter for a T14 like 9/10 people on this forum seem to think are the only law schools out there, but it still makes me a splitter. Moving on.

I don't plan on retaking the LSAT. A retake w/o intense studying would just be a dumb waste of time, and I don't have the time for the kind of studying I'd need to get a significant bump, nor do I have the resources for any prep courses. I don't have the marks or intentions to go to a T14 school. My goals aren't really that complex - just to go to law school and come out with a good paying job. I'd prefer to practice in the Northeast or DC, but I'd be fine studying elsewhere if I got into a reach school that isn't regional, but again that isn't T14. My reach schools are mostly ranked in the 30s and 40s by USNEWS.

But again, to the original question, adcoms don't know if you apply to multiple schools, right?

Troianii · Post by **Troianii** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:16 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Applications often ask where else you're applying. You can answer or not - it doesn't matter. It won't make a difference, how many schools you apply to, or which ones.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

Troianii · Post by **Troianii** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:22 am

benwyatt wrote:
Dexter97 wrote:I dont think you know what a splitter is....
+1

Also, OP, from MyLSN, your cycle seems pretty predictable.
You really need to retake.

Huh, interesting. I just ran those numbers with URM (which you excluded when you ran, even though I said I'm white/NA, which I'm pretty sure most schools still count as URM), and got vastly different numbers. Even suggest a fair chance at schools like Michigan.

Which, again, I don't actually have any dreams of going to a T14 school. I thank you for submitting the info but contrary to most here, I believe that other schools exist haha

benwyatt · Post by **benwyatt** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:30 am

Post removed.

Troianii · Post by **Troianii** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:36 am

benwyatt wrote:
Troianii wrote:
benwyatt wrote:
Dexter97 wrote:I dont think you know what a splitter is....
+1

Also, OP, from MyLSN, your cycle seems pretty predictable.
You really need to retake.

Huh, interesting. I just ran those numbers with URM (which you excluded when you ran, even though I said I'm white/NA, which I'm pretty sure most schools still count as URM), and got vastly different numbers. Even suggest a fair chance at schools like Michigan. Which, again, I don't actually have any dreams of going to a T14 school. I thank you for submitting the info but contrary to most here, I believe that other schools exist haha
My mistake regarding the URM, I just forgot to change the setting but I'm sure it does have an effect.

As far as the T-14 thing goes, I'm not going to presume to tell you what the right decision is for you, but the reason so many people on this site are of the "T-14 or bust" variety is because job outcomes for schools outside of it are frequently disheartening.

Again, one of those schools may be the right decision for you, but I encourage you to do a lot of research about job placement statistics before you do enroll somewhere.

I appreciate the advice, and trust me I've heard it before and I've looked pretty closely into it. As far as employment figures go there are a few gems that aren't well ranked but still offer great job prospects - such as Houston. And I think we all know most such schools are pretty niche - people from Houston work with oil and gas. But there are other law schools like BC that are pretty dang good but far from being ranked top 14. But yeah, I'll pay close attention to employment figures. Always good advice.

Generally · Post by **Generally** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:45 am

Post removed.

lymenheimer · Post by **lymenheimer** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:08 am

Troianii wrote:
"LSAT-median: 155
75th Percentile LSAT: 158
25th Percentile LSAT: 152
GPA-median: 3.44
75th Percentile GPA: 3.71
25th Percentile GPA: 3.16"

Yeah, it makes me a splitter. No, not a splitter for a T14 like 9/10 people on this forum seem to think are the only law schools out there, but it still makes me a splitter. Moving on.

I don't wanna pick a fight, I just wanted to point out that this website is "Top-Law-Schools". So that is going to be a majority of the opinion. There is also support for this statement regarding the good paying jobs which isn't to say that a regional isn't right for your goals, but you should be looking at scholarship money for whichever regional you wanna go to, rather than paying a lot and being stuck with a not top law position and debt (unless you're using vet money or something), in which case, good luck finding the regional that isn't regional (I'd imagine some of them have placement elsewhere, but that will likely be for those who have strong ties/get lucky). People are going to tell you to retake to maximize cost effectiveness of law school. Even if you don't want a top school, a bump in your LSAT, even to 160, is going to net you more scholarship. Food for thought.

Scalvert · Post by **Scalvert** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:50 pm

Check out Seton Hall.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/setonhall/2014/

They outperform their ranking, and your numbers would be competitive. Medians 156/3.48

I've also heard Georgia St places well in Georgia and Kentucky does extremely well in-state, Seton Hall, however, fits your NE preference.

stego · Post by **stego** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:31 pm

Troianii wrote:Quite simply put, do adcoms know if you apply to multiple schools? I assume the answer is no. I'm just curious because I plan on applying to many law schools, and everything about my app almakes the cycle a little unpredictable. I'm a fairly weak splitter, 3.0/158, white/native, and a veteran. All three on their own make for an unpredictable cycle, from what I've heard, and putting them together I just... I really have a hard time figuring out my chances at schools and so I plan on just applying to many.

Why do you care if they know? How does that affect anything? People on this site regularly advise applicants to apply to several law schools if for no other reason than scholarship negotiations (assuming the applicant receives multiple acceptances).

Troianii · Post by **Troianii** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:23 pm

stego wrote:
Troianii wrote:Quite simply put, do adcoms know if you apply to multiple schools? I assume the answer is no. I'm just curious because I plan on applying to many law schools, and everything about my app almakes the cycle a little unpredictable. I'm a fairly weak splitter, 3.0/158, white/native, and a veteran. All three on their own make for an unpredictable cycle, from what I've heard, and putting them together I just... I really have a hard time figuring out my chances at schools and so I plan on just applying to many.
Why do you care if they know? How does that affect anything? People on this site regularly advise applicants to apply to several law schools if for no other reason than scholarship negotiations (assuming the applicant receives multiple acceptances).

It matters because adcoms care about the % of offers made that are accepted. If I remember right, it actually affects rankings, and if they were to know that you were applying to dozens of schools, they would be substantially less interested in offering admission because they would doubt that you'd take their offer.

A. Nony Mouse · Post by **A. Nony Mouse** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:27 pm

That's not how it works. They're going to admit who they want to admit asked on the application you submit, not based on how many schools you're applying to.

Clearly · Post by **Clearly** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:42 pm

Troianii wrote:
stego wrote:
Troianii wrote:Quite simply put, do adcoms know if you apply to multiple schools? I assume the answer is no. I'm just curious because I plan on applying to many law schools, and everything about my app almakes the cycle a little unpredictable. I'm a fairly weak splitter, 3.0/158, white/native, and a veteran. All three on their own make for an unpredictable cycle, from what I've heard, and putting them together I just... I really have a hard time figuring out my chances at schools and so I plan on just applying to many.
Why do you care if they know? How does that affect anything? People on this site regularly advise applicants to apply to several law schools if for no other reason than scholarship negotiations (assuming the applicant receives multiple acceptances).
It matters because adcoms care about the % of offers made that are accepted. If I remember right, it actually affects rankings, and if they were to know that you were applying to dozens of schools, they would be substantially less interested in offering admission because they would doubt that you'd take their offer.

This just isn't how it works in practice.

Troianii · Post by **Troianii** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:46 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:That's not how it works. They're going to admit who they want to admit asked on the application you submit, not based on how many schools you're applying to.

Well if I hear you right that they don't know so it doesn't matter then that answers my question and at this point its just hypothetical, but if they did know I'm pretty sure it'd affect, since law schools already reject applicants with numbers well above the school's normal range, since "the rankings penalize schools for every offer they make that isn't accepted..." pg 43 of the Ivey Guide. Regardless, I didn't think they would know and if they don't, then I anticipate pay a lot of app fees.

A. Nony Mouse · Post by **A. Nony Mouse** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:02 pm

They ask you where else you're applying, to determine what their competition is. If they want to admit you, they're not going to not admit you just because you're applying for 10 other schools rather than 2. Your numbers still have the same value to them.

Troianii · Post by **Troianii** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:32 pm

Scalvert wrote:Check out Seton Hall.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/setonhall/2014/

They outperform their ranking, and your numbers would be competitive. Medians 156/3.48

I've also heard Georgia St places well in Georgia and Kentucky does extremely well in-state, Seton Hall, however, fits your NE preference.

I hadn't really considered Seton Hall. And it does seem to have employment figures well above what is normal for its ranking, but I think thats mostly because of how well it does with clerkships. It is still regional and not in the region I'd like to practice, and the actual salaries a few years out are low for law schools in general, especially when the area is considered. I appreciate the advice but may give a pass on Seton.

Though I've looked into applying to Kentucky and Georgia.

Clearly · Post by **Clearly** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:12 pm

I still think you're not realizing the income these jobs come with.

Clearly · Post by **Clearly** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:13 pm

Troianii wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:That's not how it works. They're going to admit who they want to admit asked on the application you submit, not based on how many schools you're applying to.
Well if I hear you right that they don't know so it doesn't matter then that answers my question and at this point its just hypothetical, but if they did know I'm pretty sure it'd affect, since law schools already reject applicants with numbers well above the school's normal range, since "the rankings penalize schools for every offer they make that isn't accepted..." pg 43 of the Ivey Guide. Regardless, I didn't think they would know and if they don't, then I anticipate pay a lot of app fees.

Maybe stick around for a while before you give advice. Yield protect isn't happening based on number of applications. Schools assume you're applying to lots of other schools.

Troianii · Post by **Troianii** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:43 pm

Clearly wrote:
Troianii wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:That's not how it works. They're going to admit who they want to admit asked on the application you submit, not based on how many schools you're applying to.
Well if I hear you right that they don't know so it doesn't matter then that answers my question and at this point its just hypothetical, but if they did know I'm pretty sure it'd affect, since law schools already reject applicants with numbers well above the school's normal range, since "the rankings penalize schools for every offer they make that isn't accepted..." pg 43 of the Ivey Guide. Regardless, I didn't think they would know and if they don't, then I anticipate pay a lot of app fees.
Maybe stick around for a while before you give advice. Yield protect isn't happening based on number of applications. Schools assume you're applying to lots of other schools.

Thanks. Are there any other things I haven't done that you'd like to suggest I don't do?

Troianii · Post by **Troianii** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:10 pm

Clearly wrote:I still think you're not realizing the income these jobs come with.

I'm quite well aware. Here is a sampling of some schools that are far from T-14. Now there's no sake in being sour over any of this, but be realistic: while median (or even lower end) incomes may not be good enough to be worth your time, the vast majority of people considering law school probably aren't in your position. It's not as if I'm stuck between going for my JD at Houston vs. going for an MBA at Harvard. And, though it's cliche and I hate the saying, you don't know me. There are plenty of law schools well outside of the top 20 where I would be happy to earn around the lower end of what their graduates earn. 80k/yr private sector from BC, for the 25th percentile, is fine with me.

BC - #34, med/avg private starting salary 145k/121.7k/80k
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/bc/sals/2013/

Indiana - #34, med/avg private starting salary 90k/98.3k/70k
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... sals/2013/

Houston - #59, med/avg/25th private starting salary 135k/119.8k/80k
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... sals/2013/

Nevada - #74, med/avg/25th private starting salary 70k/75.8k/56k
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/unlv/sals/2013/

UNH - #87, med/avg/25th private starting salary 101k/103.5k/75k
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/nh/sals/2013/

Rankings drawn from here, obviously some were ties
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... ngs/page+2