College Course Selection

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
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smaug
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Re: College Course Selection

Postby smaug » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:01 pm

Lawdood wrote:
Jason Taverner wrote:



Yeah I've heard that the job market is pretty bad which is why i'll ONLY go to law school IF i get into the T14 with some $$$ or T6.


I went to a T6 with money. I have a job.

I'm telling you to put some thought into another career.

You can always decide to go to law school anyway. You can't as easily plan on law school, get a crappy degree, and then go be a doctor or a software engineer or something else.

TheBananaStand
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Re: College Course Selection

Postby TheBananaStand » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:03 pm

I think the general advice has been pretty spot on. Do something quantitative enough so that if you change your mind, you'll have some nice career alternatives your senior year during the job search but no so arduous that your GPA will crash and burn (because, of course, this will severely limit your law school options if you decide to go).

Coming into college, I was dead set on going to law school. I'm probably still going to apply to law school before my LSAT expires (4 years left), but I've accepted a job in an industry that I don't think I even knew really existed until I saw firms recruiting on campus. So, it's definitely nice to have a major that is flexible. This is not to say majoring in Art History or something completely closes the doors on ibanking, consulting, tech firms, etc. but it does make it difficult to get interviews at some of those places.

Username123
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Re: College Course Selection

Postby Username123 » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:05 pm

Jason Taverner wrote:i should probably tone it down so i can save a soul because do normally don't get folks who are this young

OP—I'm a graduate of a top school, with good grades, and a job lined up at a well respected firm this fall. I attended with a significant grant package. I was, by most measures, pretty successful (but not amazingly so) at this whole law school thing.

Please consider getting credentials that will allow you to work in another field. Pick a job other than lawyer, talk to people in that field, and ask them what you should take.

Lawyers will not care at all what you did before law school, unless it is too public interest-y and you're trying to sell out.

You can be pre-Med, or pre-pharm, you can get a CS degree, you can get an Engineering degree, you can set yourself up to work in banking—you'll be able to go to law school with any of those.

The LSAT is painfully easy. The standards for admission to even top schools are laughably low. You will be able to go to law school no matter what you study.

But, you won't be able to go back and time and get a good shot at becoming something other than a lawyer.

So, even if you don't trust me and are convinced that you want to go to law school, take steps toward another career path. It won't shut any doors and will at least keep one more door open.

If I could go back in time and talk to 18 year old me, that's what I'd tell him. I hope he'd listen.


this advice should be on the front page of TLS

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smaug
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Re: College Course Selection

Postby smaug » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:11 pm

also to be crystal, i'm not super disappointed (yet) but i can see far enough ahead to know that many people are

i also recognize that my outcome, in the aggregate, (i.e., across the T14/T20) is above average

it's just always nice to have options and to not feel cornered into something

Lawdood
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Re: College Course Selection

Postby Lawdood » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:11 pm

Jason Taverner wrote:i should probably tone it down so i can save a soul because do normally don't get folks who are this young

OP—I'm a graduate of a top school, with good grades, and a job lined up at a well respected firm this fall. I attended with a significant grant package. I was, by most measures, pretty successful (but not amazingly so) at this whole law school thing.

Please consider getting credentials that will allow you to work in another field. Pick a job other than lawyer, talk to people in that field, and ask them what you should take.

Lawyers will not care at all what you did before law school, unless it is too public interest-y and you're trying to sell out.

You can be pre-Med, or pre-pharm, you can get a CS degree, you can get an Engineering degree, you can set yourself up to work in banking—you'll be able to go to law school with any of those.

The LSAT is painfully easy. The standards for admission to even top schools are laughably low. You will be able to go to law school no matter what you study.

But, you won't be able to go back and time and get a good shot at becoming something other than a lawyer.

So, even if you don't trust me and are convinced that you want to go to law school, take steps toward another career path. It won't shut any doors and will at least keep one more door open.

If I could go back in time and talk to 18 year old me, that's what I'd tell him. I hope he'd listen.


Damn, you're making me rethink law school and maybe it's for the best. You seem to have a lot of experience and I would be foolish not to listen to what you say. Would you recommend that I get a Math and finance degree, do well and get a masters in finance to get into banking?

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smaug
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Re: College Course Selection

Postby smaug » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:14 pm

I can't tell you how to go into banking—I never did it and they didn't recruit from my school.

If you're interested in banking, I'd suggest you try to talk to a banker (somehow) and ask that person for advice. Easiest to start with a job that you like and say "how do I get to where you are?"

You asked lawyers and the answer was "just don't get awful grades and you'll be fine" so you have an answer for one field. Now go find out some others.

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pancakes3
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Re: College Course Selection

Postby pancakes3 » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:21 pm

Doing IB/finance in general depends on UG program ranking as well as grades (though they tend to protect their own once you get into the program). If you do Engineering, it should be EE, CS, Biomed or Systems. Mech E is a nonstarter. If you do a hard science, be prepared to go all the way and get a PhD. If you do Econ, pair it up with Math or else it's not too beneficial as far as consulting jobs go.

Lawdood
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Re: College Course Selection

Postby Lawdood » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:25 pm

pancakes3 wrote:Doing IB/finance in general depends on UG program ranking as well as grades (though they tend to protect their own once you get into the program). If you do Engineering, it should be EE, CS, Biomed or Systems. Mech E is a nonstarter. If you do a hard science, be prepared to go all the way and get a PhD. If you do Econ, pair it up with Math or else it's not too beneficial as far as consulting jobs go.


I wouldn't be able to get an Ibanking job because I go to a non-target. My plan is to get good grades, take the GRE/GMAT and go to a masters program where banks recruit such as MIT, columbia etc.

I've been meaning to ask, do investment banks in New york ask for high school grades once you get a bachelors and masters?

TheBananaStand
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Re: College Course Selection

Postby TheBananaStand » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:33 pm

Lawdood wrote:
Jason Taverner wrote:i should probably tone it down so i can save a soul because do normally don't get folks who are this young

OP—I'm a graduate of a top school, with good grades, and a job lined up at a well respected firm this fall. I attended with a significant grant package. I was, by most measures, pretty successful (but not amazingly so) at this whole law school thing.

Please consider getting credentials that will allow you to work in another field. Pick a job other than lawyer, talk to people in that field, and ask them what you should take.

Lawyers will not care at all what you did before law school, unless it is too public interest-y and you're trying to sell out.

You can be pre-Med, or pre-pharm, you can get a CS degree, you can get an Engineering degree, you can set yourself up to work in banking—you'll be able to go to law school with any of those.

The LSAT is painfully easy. The standards for admission to even top schools are laughably low. You will be able to go to law school no matter what you study.

But, you won't be able to go back and time and get a good shot at becoming something other than a lawyer.

So, even if you don't trust me and are convinced that you want to go to law school, take steps toward another career path. It won't shut any doors and will at least keep one more door open.

If I could go back in time and talk to 18 year old me, that's what I'd tell him. I hope he'd listen.


Damn, you're making me rethink law school and maybe it's for the best. You seem to have a lot of experience and I would be foolish not to listen to what you say. Would you recommend that I get a Math and finance degree, do well and get a masters in finance to get into banking?



If you go to a target school (meaning ibanks recruit on your campus), there really isn't a need to get a masters. They recruit during your junior year spring semester, and from my understanding (based off friends who did it), that junior summer internship generally converts to a full-time offer unless you really mess up. That being said, having success in finance recruiting seems to rely upon getting that junior internship (because unlike consulting where the majority of full-time offers are extended during the fall of your senior year, most finance spots are filled from the summer intern class). These firms definitely like quant majors, but I do know a few poli sci majors who ended up with offers--dual math and finance degree would definitely give you a leg up though.

If you don't go to a target school, a masters might make a lot of sense. You can get an offer out of undergrad from a non-target, but it does require a lot of networking. If you do get a masters, you just want to make sure that you're getting it from a school the places you would like to work recruit at.

With all of that said, I will mention that I know a lot of miserable ibankers, and although I'm not in the demographic to know a lot of young lawyers, I'm sure there are similar rates of dissatisfaction. The nice thing, I guess, is that ibankers don't have to spend 3 years and take on debt to realize they dislike their job, and they probably have more exit options. That's the upside of pursuing finance first I suppose

TheBananaStand
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Re: College Course Selection

Postby TheBananaStand » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:34 pm

Sorry, just saw your reply above. Looks like you're well aware of most of these factors--didn't mean to be redundant.

TheBananaStand
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Re: College Course Selection

Postby TheBananaStand » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:36 pm

Lawdood wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:Doing IB/finance in general depends on UG program ranking as well as grades (though they tend to protect their own once you get into the program). If you do Engineering, it should be EE, CS, Biomed or Systems. Mech E is a nonstarter. If you do a hard science, be prepared to go all the way and get a PhD. If you do Econ, pair it up with Math or else it's not too beneficial as far as consulting jobs go.


I wouldn't be able to get an Ibanking job because I go to a non-target. My plan is to get good grades, take the GRE/GMAT and go to a masters program where banks recruit such as MIT, columbia etc.

I've been meaning to ask, do investment banks in New york ask for high school grades once you get a bachelors and masters?



I've never heard of them asking for high school grades even during UG recruitment. They do ask for SAT, ACT, etc. though

Lawdood
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Re: College Course Selection

Postby Lawdood » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:43 pm

TheBananaStand wrote:Sorry, just saw your reply above. Looks like you're well aware of most of these factors--didn't mean to be redundant.


No problem. Thanks for taking the time to help :)

Lawdood
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Re: College Course Selection

Postby Lawdood » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:45 pm

TheBananaStand wrote:
Lawdood wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:Doing IB/finance in general depends on UG program ranking as well as grades (though they tend to protect their own once you get into the program). If you do Engineering, it should be EE, CS, Biomed or Systems. Mech E is a nonstarter. If you do a hard science, be prepared to go all the way and get a PhD. If you do Econ, pair it up with Math or else it's not too beneficial as far as consulting jobs go.


I wouldn't be able to get an Ibanking job because I go to a non-target. My plan is to get good grades, take the GRE/GMAT and go to a masters program where banks recruit such as MIT, columbia etc.

I've been meaning to ask, do investment banks in New york ask for high school grades once you get a bachelors and masters?



I've never heard of them asking for high school grades even during UG recruitment. They do ask for SAT, ACT, etc. though


That's great! My high school grades weren't that great (woke up too late). I only asked because in Europe, they ask for High shcool grades even after getting a Phd.




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