FINANCIAL AID NEGOTIATION HELP!

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freakazo1d
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FINANCIAL AID NEGOTIATION HELP!

Postby freakazo1d » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:28 am

Hey Everyone,

With deposit deadlines approaching I have a few questions. I had a 3.61 GPA & a 169 LSAT. I had decent recs, but I think my extracurriculars + community leadership lifted me up. Oh plus diversity but not URM.

My cycle
Applied:
Harvard (a kid can dream can't he?)
Columbia
NYU
Penn
Michigan
Berkeley
Virginia
Duke
Georgetown
Northwestern
Cornell

Accepted:
Duke
Michigan
Northwestern

Denied:
Harvard
Berkeley
Cornell

Waitlisted:
Columbia (Reserve)
NYU
Penn
Virginia
Georgetown

Now, I received a Dean's scholarship from Duke ($73k) & Michigan ($75k). From what I'm reading and learning I should negotiate as much as possible. My concern is how should I go about it. Duke this year has escalated the rankings, should I go to Michigan first and ask them to match Duke, or should I go vice-versa because historically Michigan has been a better school.

I feel like I should've applied to more safeties to be able to negotiate more aggressively, but at this point what advice do you have? I have to put a deposit this Friday, so time is of the essence. And, I don't have a preference for either at this point.

And, should I even ride the waitlist at this point...? Penn is one of my top choices, but its one of the most selective in regards to waitlist students.

Thanks in advance!

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starry eyed
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Re: FINANCIAL AID NEGOTIATION HELP!

Postby starry eyed » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:54 am

I haven't read through the typical negotiating strategy on here but this is what i would do.

Talk to Mchigan first, tell them how much you love the school but how you don't think the current offer is financially feasible. Then proceed to tell them that you have a similar offer from duke so you have a tough decision to make- and that you are leaning toward duke bc of the weather and better employment #'s. you want to give yourself as much leverage as you can at all times (always in business)-that leverage can be an acceptance at a better school, or scholarship offer, AND your personal preferences.

If Michigan takes the bait, tun around and do the same thing with your new Michigan offer to Duke as leverage.

Hopefully some one else will chime in on deadline extensions and deposits. But if you can't get it extended, i would do the negotiating over the phone and not wait on emails.

and don't ride the waitlist- duke at that price is better than Penn at sticker

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Kinky John
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Re: FINANCIAL AID NEGOTIATION HELP!

Postby Kinky John » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:41 am

You have to figure out most of this on your end (where do you want to work, what do you want to do, etc.)

I will add that I don't think that telling any school other than Duke something like this

starry eyed wrote:that you are leaning toward duke bc of the weather and better employment #'s.


will be successful, but what do I know.

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starry eyed
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Re: FINANCIAL AID NEGOTIATION HELP!

Postby starry eyed » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:44 am

swadianfc wrote:You have to figure out most of this on your end (where do you want to work, what do you want to do, etc.)

I will add that I don't think that telling any school other than Duke something like this

starry eyed wrote:that you are leaning toward duke bc of the weather and better employment #'s.


will be successful, but what do I know.


yea good point- this negotiating thing is more complicated depending on what your goals are but OP doesn't seem to have a preference and needs an offer Today. So why beat around the bush?

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Kinky John
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Re: FINANCIAL AID NEGOTIATION HELP!

Postby Kinky John » Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:00 am

starry eyed wrote:OP doesn't seem to have a preference and needs an offer Today. So why beat around the bush?


That's what I'm saying, OP needs to figure out a preference. The negotiation is separate from actual preference.

You don't have to beat around the bush but I think there's a more diplomatic way of saying it.

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starry eyed
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Re: FINANCIAL AID NEGOTIATION HELP!

Postby starry eyed » Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:08 am

telling a school that you are interested in another school is not not being diplomatic. it's being assertive- you are trying to instill in them an eager want -to raise their offer or lose you.

being diplomatic is not synonymous with being meek.

OP should use his bargaining power; michigan is not the one with the advantage here.

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bretby
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Re: FINANCIAL AID NEGOTIATION HELP!

Postby bretby » Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:39 am

starry eyed wrote:telling a school that you are interested in another school is not not being diplomatic. it's being assertive- you are trying to instill in them an eager want -to raise their offer or lose you.

being diplomatic is not synonymous with being meek.

OP should use his bargaining power; michigan is not the one with the advantage here.


A few pieces of advice:

1. Whatever you do, do not try to use weather as a bargaining chip. That is an immature reason to prefer one school to another, and I worry you will lose credibility.

2. Use Duke's superior employment figures, but also include some legitimate reason why you prefer Michigan to Duke. There has to be something that is keeping this a live question for you, so put it in the email.

3. Attach your Duke offer to your initial email. They will probably ask for it anyways, so including it right away saves time.

4. Further, given that time is of the essence, send the negotiation email immediately and don't only send it to a generic email address. If all you can find is on the site is a general admissions or financial aid address, try googling the names of the relevant people and sending it directly to their addresses, cc'ing the generic address. I did this and it worked.

5. Ask for an extension on the deposit deadline.

6. Remember that negotiations don't always end at the deposit deadline if the schools you are choosing between don't stipulate that you withdraw from other schools. I sent an email withdrawing from a school and cited money as the reason, and they responded immediately looking to negotiate.

Hope this helps!

Falcon3
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Re: FINANCIAL AID NEGOTIATION HELP!

Postby Falcon3 » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:37 pm

Key to negotiation: What can the school do to make themselves more attractive?

Can Michigan change the weather in Michigan? Can Michigan change last year's employment numbers? Bar passage rates? Employment scores? NO

Michigan knows its shortcomings in relation to Duke (or any other school for that matter)

The ONLY thing Michigan can change about themselves is what they're offering you. So you need to make sure that is what you're telling them will make the difference! Frame it as if the only thing you are considering about Duke is the money. That way you're giving Michigan a way to overcome that shortcoming (offering you more money).

freakazo1d
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Re: FINANCIAL AID NEGOTIATION HELP!

Postby freakazo1d » Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:25 pm

Okay so awesome advice so far, I really appreciate it!

Okay so we can all agree that Duke is the better school, and that I should use Duke's offer to leverage Michigan and then use Michigan's renewed offer (ideally) to leverage Duke up?

Also, can you elaborate on what the differences are between Duke and Michigan in regards to what I want to do. I know that Duke would be better for DC and has slightly higher employment numbers, but beyond that what else should I consider? I am not exactly sure what I want to do, but NYC Big Law is a top consideration along with internships in the Department of Education.

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Kinky John
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Re: FINANCIAL AID NEGOTIATION HELP!

Postby Kinky John » Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:50 pm

Falcon3 wrote:Key to negotiation: What can the school do to make themselves more attractive?

Can Michigan change the weather in Michigan? Can Michigan change last year's employment numbers? Bar passage rates? Employment scores? NO

Michigan knows its shortcomings in relation to Duke (or any other school for that matter)

The ONLY thing Michigan can change about themselves is what they're offering you. So you need to make sure that is what you're telling them will make the difference! Frame it as if the only thing you are considering about Duke is the money. That way you're giving Michigan a way to overcome that shortcoming (offering you more money).


But that's too meek. You need to remind the adcomms that Michigan is now a TTT and that if they want your brilliant mind, they'll have to fork over some more money. While you're at it, ask for control of the Sudetenland too.

I can say with near certainty that Michigan will not raise it's offer in response to what Duke has offered, but you should give it a go. Has Northwestern made an offer yet? You should research more re: NYC and DC biglaw from Michigan and Duke, I'm sure you can find the answers here somewhere.

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starry eyed
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Re: FINANCIAL AID NEGOTIATION HELP!

Postby starry eyed » Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:27 am

LOL these were longshot odds at best, can't believe of the butthurt that has been caused here.

And yea, one of the reasons i prefer the south is the weather, people who are jsed to arctic weather have a strong incentive to go somewhere warmer, if you can't phrase this through a phone call or even email negotiation while sounding diplomatic and without ruing your credibility, you are a poor orator/negotiator and weren't gonna get shit in the first place.

The best leverage OP could have is a larger offer from Duke. Since he does not have that, he's gotta create other incentives for himself to choose duke over michigan, to tell michigan.

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Kinky John
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Re: FINANCIAL AID NEGOTIATION HELP!

Postby Kinky John » Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:46 am

starry eyed wrote:LOL these were longshot odds at best, can't believe of the butthurt that has been caused here.

And yea, one of the reasons i prefer the south is the weather, people who are jsed to arctic weather have a strong incentive to go somewhere warmer, if you can't phrase this through a phone call or even email negotiation while sounding diplomatic and without ruing your credibility, you are a poor orator/negotiator and weren't gonna get shit in the first place.

The best leverage OP could have is a larger offer from Duke. Since he does not have that, he's gotta create other incentives for himself to choose duke over michigan, to tell michigan.


I can't believe of it either! These people who aren't jsed to negotiations are ruing things for themselves.

(We're all on the same page, we're just qualifying what you're saying. Don't get your panties in a twist)

OP any news on NW?

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bretby
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Re: FINANCIAL AID NEGOTIATION HELP!

Postby bretby » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:14 am

starry eyed wrote:LOL these were longshot odds at best, can't believe of the butthurt that has been caused here.

And yea, one of the reasons i prefer the south is the weather, people who are jsed to arctic weather have a strong incentive to go somewhere warmer, if you can't phrase this through a phone call or even email negotiation while sounding diplomatic and without ruing your credibility, you are a poor orator/negotiator and weren't gonna get shit in the first place.

The best leverage OP could have is a larger offer from Duke. Since he does not have that, he's gotta create other incentives for himself to choose duke over michigan, to tell michigan.


Wow! Angry much? Not sure what oratory has to do with any of this, but a smart negotiator will realize, as the poster above said, that weather is beyond Michigan's control and is therefore a really poor bargaining chip. You can prefer warmer weather all you want, and you can ultimately choose a school in part because of the weather, but that is not going to be a compelling reason for another school to give you more money. I wonder, how much negotiating experience do you have?

badgerdude
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Re: FINANCIAL AID NEGOTIATION HELP!

Postby badgerdude » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:05 am

bretby wrote:
starry eyed wrote:LOL these were longshot odds at best, can't believe of the butthurt that has been caused here.

And yea, one of the reasons i prefer the south is the weather, people who are jsed to arctic weather have a strong incentive to go somewhere warmer, if you can't phrase this through a phone call or even email negotiation while sounding diplomatic and without ruing your credibility, you are a poor orator/negotiator and weren't gonna get shit in the first place.

The best leverage OP could have is a larger offer from Duke. Since he does not have that, he's gotta create other incentives for himself to choose duke over michigan, to tell michigan.


Wow! Angry much? Not sure what oratory has to do with any of this, but a smart negotiator will realize, as the poster above said, that weather is beyond Michigan's control and is therefore a really poor bargaining chip. You can prefer warmer weather all you want, and you can ultimately choose a school in part because of the weather, but that is not going to be a compelling reason for another school to give you more money. I wonder, how much negotiating experience do you have?


This just seems wrong to me. Obviously Michigan can't change the weather, but it can still be a legitimate reason someone doesn't want to go there over Duke. It's a disadvantage, so to make up for it they can give OP more money, whether they can change the weather is irrelevant if they can make up for it elsewhere ($$$)

freakazo1d
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Re: FINANCIAL AID NEGOTIATION HELP!

Postby freakazo1d » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:48 am

Hey Guys,

I spoke to Michigan and they said they won't be able to do anything about it unfortunately. So just gonna deposit at Duke!

Thank you all for the help! And, I wasn't very interested in NW and they didn't even offer me a scholarship O.o

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starry eyed
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Re: FINANCIAL AID NEGOTIATION HELP!

Postby starry eyed » Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:13 pm

badgerdude wrote:
bretby wrote:
starry eyed wrote:LOL these were longshot odds at best, can't believe of the butthurt that has been caused here.

And yea, one of the reasons i prefer the south is the weather, people who are jsed to arctic weather have a strong incentive to go somewhere warmer, if you can't phrase this through a phone call or even email negotiation while sounding diplomatic and without ruing your credibility, you are a poor orator/negotiator and weren't gonna get shit in the first place.

The best leverage OP could have is a larger offer from Duke. Since he does not have that, he's gotta create other incentives for himself to choose duke over michigan, to tell michigan.


Wow! Angry much? Not sure what oratory has to do with any of this, but a smart negotiator will realize, as the poster above said, that weather is beyond Michigan's control and is therefore a really poor bargaining chip. You can prefer warmer weather all you want, and you can ultimately choose a school in part because of the weather, but that is not going to be a compelling reason for another school to give you more money. I wonder, how much negotiating experience do you have?


This just seems wrong to me. Obviously Michigan can't change the weather, but it can still be a legitimate reason someone doesn't want to go there over Duke. It's a disadvantage, so to make up for it they can give OP more money, whether they can change the weather is irrelevant if they can make up for it elsewhere ($$$)




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