Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )

Where should I go?

Harvard/Stanford
34
55%
USC
9
15%
Cornell
18
29%
Duke
1
2%
 
Total votes: 62

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banjo
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby banjo » Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:31 am

Cornell full $. I'm sure you can get something in CA out of Cornell. Plus, Cornell virtually guarantees you an SA income somewhere for your 2L summer, which is 3k/week for 10-12 weeks. At Cornell you'll also have a small but realistic shot at a 1L SA, especially if you're diverse. Not insignificant.

Moneytrees
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby Moneytrees » Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:22 pm

banjo wrote:Cornell full $. I'm sure you can get something in CA out of Cornell. Plus, Cornell virtually guarantees you an SA income somewhere for your 2L summer, which is 3k/week for 10-12 weeks. At Cornell you'll also have a small but realistic shot at a 1L SA, especially if you're diverse. Not insignificant.


I agree with this. USC with a full ride is a defensible option, but given your goals I would go to Cornell. If you do well, getting back to California is a realistic option.

If you finish around median, you will still land a great job in NYC and will likely have the option of returning to California a few years down the line.

seansj1
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:54 pm

Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby seansj1 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:28 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Why have you not included your offer from UCLA with a full tuition scholarship among your options ? Have you checked Duke's placement in SoCal ?

@hisperson1111: Any thoughts regarding UCLA law versus USC law in this field ?


UCLA's deadline already passed and they wouldn't extend it for me (they claimed they couldn't hold a full scholarship offer past the 17th), so I crossed them off the list to wait for the rest of my offers. Plus on top of that, I have a huge family connection to USC and I'm kinda of tired of being at UCLA.

Duke's placement in California seems to be no better than Cornell's and maybe worse. California was the #5 state for last year's graduates.

seansj1
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:54 pm

Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby seansj1 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:32 pm

banjo wrote:Cornell full $. I'm sure you can get something in CA out of Cornell. Plus, Cornell virtually guarantees you an SA income somewhere for your 2L summer, which is 3k/week for 10-12 weeks. At Cornell you'll also have a small but realistic shot at a 1L SA, especially if you're diverse. Not insignificant.


How does Cornell virtually guarantee an SA income for my 2L summer? I haven't heard anything like that before, and it definitely doesn't seem likely that I could be an SA in California, which obviously is preferable to anything else (though not essential).

MikeJD
Posts: 260
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:39 pm

Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby MikeJD » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:35 pm

Maybe if more people like you took full rides from t-14s or t-20s instead of going to H/S at sticker, H/s would be finally forced to give merit aid. It's insane they can still enroll people who have full rides at t-14 at sticker :twisted: Greedy bastards.

arklaw13
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby arklaw13 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:39 pm

MikeJD wrote:Maybe if more people like you took full rides from t-14s or t-20s instead of going to H/S at sticker, H/s would be finally forced to give merit aid. It's insane they can still enroll people who have full rides at t-14 at sticker :twisted: Greedy bastards.


Or just make their need-based aid more generous. People whose parents are bankrolling their law school tuition aren't going to take a full ride over HYS anyway.

seansj1
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:54 pm

Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby seansj1 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:56 pm

arklaw13 wrote:
MikeJD wrote:Maybe if more people like you took full rides from t-14s or t-20s instead of going to H/S at sticker, H/s would be finally forced to give merit aid. It's insane they can still enroll people who have full rides at t-14 at sticker :twisted: Greedy bastards.


Or just make their need-based aid more generous. People whose parents are bankrolling their law school tuition aren't going to take a full ride over HYS anyway.


They do seem to be fairly generous for most people, but my parents are above the threshold for me to get anything other than a token amount of a few thousand (and probably not even that). They couldn't care less that I would be supporting myself with loans if I were to go to a school where I had to pay full tuition.

hlsperson1111
Posts: 239
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:10 pm

Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby hlsperson1111 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:57 pm

USC and UCLA are fungible. I think UCLA is a slightly better school, but the Trojan Network is real. I'd probably flip a coin or pick based on geography (DTLA v. the Westside).

If this person has the credentials to get into HLS, I don't think he will end up median at USC. Could he? Sure, but it's unlikely given how strongly the LSAT predicts law school success. And in any event, he has very little debt even if he strikes out. I am usually all about taking the more prestigious school and sucking up the debt, but given OP's specific goals and strong preference to end up in LA I just don't think it makes sense.

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banjo
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby banjo » Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:09 pm

seansj1 wrote:
banjo wrote:Cornell full $. I'm sure you can get something in CA out of Cornell. Plus, Cornell virtually guarantees you an SA income somewhere for your 2L summer, which is 3k/week for 10-12 weeks. At Cornell you'll also have a small but realistic shot at a 1L SA, especially if you're diverse. Not insignificant.


How does Cornell virtually guarantee an SA income for my 2L summer? I haven't heard anything like that before, and it definitely doesn't seem likely that I could be an SA in California, which obviously is preferable to anything else (though not essential).


If you split your bids between CA and NYC corporate, I'd be shocked if you struck out completely. OCI success rates at CLS and NYU (which don't include the increasing number of SAs secured before and after OCI) are nearing 90%, and the big law percentages for Penn and Cornell suggest that they're doing pretty well too. Anecdotally, a few NYC firms at CLS' OCI basically admitted they were super busy and looking for warm bodies.

CA is tougher than NYC, but a lot of CA firms recruit at Cornell or will seriously consider email apps from Cornell students. If you don't get CA, you'll have NYC as a backup.

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:13 pm

hlsperson1111 wrote:USC and UCLA are fungible. I think UCLA is a slightly better school, but the Trojan Network is real. I'd probably flip a coin or pick based on geography (DTLA v. the Westside).

If this person has the credentials to get into HLS, I don't think he will end up median at USC. Could he? Sure, but it's unlikely given how strongly the LSAT predicts law school success. And in any event, he has very little debt even if he strikes out. I am usually all about taking the more prestigious school and sucking up the debt, but given OP's specific goals and strong preference to end up in LA I just don't think it makes sense.


they probably answered what five more questions correctly on a multiple choice test and that means theyll perform better in law school relative to their peers?

Moneytrees
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby Moneytrees » Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:47 am

Mack.Hambleton wrote:
hlsperson1111 wrote:USC and UCLA are fungible. I think UCLA is a slightly better school, but the Trojan Network is real. I'd probably flip a coin or pick based on geography (DTLA v. the Westside).

If this person has the credentials to get into HLS, I don't think he will end up median at USC. Could he? Sure, but it's unlikely given how strongly the LSAT predicts law school success. And in any event, he has very little debt even if he strikes out. I am usually all about taking the more prestigious school and sucking up the debt, but given OP's specific goals and strong preference to end up in LA I just don't think it makes sense.


they probably answered what five more questions correctly on a multiple choice test and that means theyll perform better in law school relative to their peers?


This is a good point, OP. USC is full of smart and competitive students, you shouldn't base decisions about your future on the flawed assumption that you'll smoke everybody else once you get there.

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bretby
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby bretby » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:09 am

It's interesting to hear USC get so much support ITT. After doing a ton of research, it does seem that, to a certain extent, geography can play as much of a factor as US News rank, particularly when one wants something other than Big Law in NYC.

Full disclosure, I took a full ride over no aid from Harvard, in part because of geography and in part because after having talked to a lot of people, being debt-free opens a lot of possibilities that $200-300k of debt foreclose.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:24 am

seansj1 wrote:Note: Harvard and Stanford are not separated on the poll because they're exactly equal in my mind. Due to location and some other factors, I'd probably choose Stanford. I know some of you on the east coast might disagree though, and I wouldn't mind hearing peoples' opinions on the matter. Thanks again!


They are not exactly equal for your goals. Placement between the schools is pretty different.

If you want to work in california and you get into Stanford, it's justifiable to attend. If you don't get into Stanford, Cornell at full ride is TCR.




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