Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )

Where should I go?

Harvard/Stanford
33
54%
USC
9
15%
Cornell
18
30%
Duke
1
2%
 
Total votes: 61

seansj1
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Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby seansj1 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:47 pm

Hey everyone. So I'm just a few days away from deciding where to attend law school next fall, and I think I've narrowed it down to Harvard, Stanford (if I get in before I have to make a decision), Cornell with about $2k less than a full tuition scholarship, or USC with full tuition covered. I also may be considering Duke with a $120,000 scholarship but probably not after receiving the offer from Cornell.

If you're wondering why USC is even in this discussion, its because I live in Southern California (and currently go to UCLA), my number one priority- other than just getting a good job- is to return to California to work, and I have a strong personal and family connection to SC. I also would love to work in Sports or Entertainment Law, and obviously LA is the best place to be for that along with New York City.

On the other hand, sports/entertainment are very hard to get into and people typically do so by working at a large firm first. For that reason, I'm thinking Cornell might be a good place to be since it is a T-14 with a lot of national respect. Not to mention it is in New York and could perhaps provide me with similar internship/externship opportunities to what I could find in LA. That being said, I really don't want to jeopardize my chances of finding a job in California after I graduate. I've gotten mixed responses on whether or not going to a T-14 outside of the top 3-5 would do so or not.

Obviously Harvard and Stanford are Harvard and Stanford, so I don't even need to explain why I'd like to go to one of those schools. However, now that I have a full scholarship offer from a T-14, I don't think I would choose Harvard with no money (which will be the case).

So does anyone have any thoughts? Any info you have on these schools or on sports/entertainment law would be appreciated! Thank you.

seansj1
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby seansj1 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:56 pm

Note: Harvard and Stanford are not separated on the poll because they're exactly equal in my mind. Due to location and some other factors, I'd probably choose Stanford. I know some of you on the east coast might disagree though, and I wouldn't mind hearing peoples' opinions on the matter. Thanks again!

BigZuck
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby BigZuck » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:05 pm

Which would you prefer:

New York City big law

Or

A non-big law job in California

seansj1
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby seansj1 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:11 pm

Non-biglaw in California most likely. I'm definitely not biglaw or bust, although I definitely don't plan on working in the public sector either.

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yomisterd
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby yomisterd » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:15 pm

does usc give stipends at all? seems like this is a good chance to walk away cash positive and meet your goals for career.

arklaw13
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby arklaw13 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:20 pm

I think either USC or Cornell are defensible given your preferences. I would learn Cornell, though, just because you'll pretty much have as good a shot at NYC biglaw as anywhere, and while you say that you'd prefer non-biglaw SoCal to NY biglaw, I don't think you'll necessarily feel the same way in three years when your loans come due.

seansj1
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby seansj1 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:23 pm

arklaw13 wrote:I think either USC or Cornell are defensible given your preferences. I would learn Cornell, though, just because you'll pretty much have as good a shot at NYC biglaw as anywhere, and while you say that you'd prefer non-biglaw SoCal to NY biglaw, I don't think you'll necessarily feel the same way in three years when your loans come due.


I'll have very little if any loans to repay. Housing should be covered mostly (probably 2-2.5 years) by what's left of my college fund.

seansj1
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby seansj1 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:23 pm

yomisterd wrote:does usc give stipends at all? seems like this is a good chance to walk away cash positive and meet your goals for career.


No, I already asked and they will not give me more than full tuition.

arklaw13
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby arklaw13 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:25 pm

seansj1 wrote:
arklaw13 wrote:I think either USC or Cornell are defensible given your preferences. I would learn Cornell, though, just because you'll pretty much have as good a shot at NYC biglaw as anywhere, and while you say that you'd prefer non-biglaw SoCal to NY biglaw, I don't think you'll necessarily feel the same way in three years when your loans come due.


I'll have very little if any loans to repay. Housing should be covered mostly (probably 2-2.5 years) by what's left of my college fund.


If that's the case USC is an ok choice, but I would still learn Cornell if you don't think you'll freeze to death in Ithaca.

seansj1
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby seansj1 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:25 pm

Anyone have any knowledge of what its like looking for a job in California after going to an East Coast T-14 like Cornell

The King
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby The King » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:28 pm

.
Last edited by The King on Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

arklaw13
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby arklaw13 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:29 pm

seansj1 wrote:Anyone have any knowledge of what its like looking for a job in California after going to an East Coast T-14 like Cornell


7.8% of Cornell c/o 2013 went to Cali. Their 2nd biggest market besides NYC. Not terrible.

qwertyTLS
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby qwertyTLS » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:45 pm

I think you should separate Harvard and Stanford on the poll. I'd say for your goals: Stanford > Cornell > Harvard > USC.

just an 0L though so most of my information is second-hand from this site.

awesomelyordinary
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby awesomelyordinary » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:02 am

If you want to move back to CA, as you say, USC > Cornell, especially if you're talking Southern California/LA. You've no doubt heard them rave about the Trojan Network. Well...it's true. Their argument begins to fall apart outside of California, but in regard to the greater LA area, USC hooks it up. Entertainment law is tough and there really is no good program in the country. But if you're not considering UCLA, USC is probably your best bet.

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Rigo
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby Rigo » Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:36 am

Your geographic inflexibility tips my vote to USC. Cornell is a better school, but you might have a tough time getting back west.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby ManoftheHour » Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:41 am

Cornell by a hair > USC > Stanford > Harvard

hlsperson1111
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby hlsperson1111 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:58 am

I went to HLS and currently work at a firm in LA that does lots of entertainment work. I think USC makes a ton of sense for your specific goals and would likely go there. Cornell is a better school at a similar price, but it just does not place well in LA. That's partly due to name recognition and partly due to the fact that it's not cost-effective for smaller offices in LA to do OCI at Cornell.

seansj1
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby seansj1 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:03 am

hlsperson1111 wrote:I went to HLS and currently work at a firm in LA that does lots of entertainment work. I think USC makes a ton of sense for your specific goals and would likely go there. Cornell is a better school at a similar price, but it just does not place well in LA.


So you'd go with USC over Harvard or Stanford? What is your firm's opinion of SC grads?

seansj1
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby seansj1 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:06 am

On a somewhat different note, Stanford does not put many more students (~35%) into big firms (501+ attorneys) than USC does (~30%). Maybe just self-selection?

hlsperson1111
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby hlsperson1111 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:09 am

200-300k is a lot of money to spend on law school, so yes, I would take USC. We do OCI at USC and have USC students in our summer class. We also have plenty of attorneys who went to USC. There are some attorneys who prefer to work with HYS grads (at least initially), and some attorneys who don't care where you went to law school. The key is to get in the door and start doing good work, and you should not have an issue doing that from USC.

(Also, when I was clerking, my judge had hired clerks from USC in the past. I don't think he/she had hired anyone from Cornell, although I could be wrong).

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby PeanutsNJam » Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:15 am

I'm surprised you guys are putting USC > Stanford. A desirable job, even non-biglaw, in Socal is far from guaranteed from USC. The guy mentioned entertainment and sports law too.

I'd say S > C > H > USC. I'm sorry there's no way a fully at T20 > HYS, unless your goal is to do doc review.

The opportunities afforded to USC median vs Stanford median are worlds apart, unless we're gonna roll with assuming OP will be summa cum laude at USC.

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Rigo
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby Rigo » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:25 am

seansj1 wrote:On a somewhat different note, Stanford does not put many more students (~35%) into big firms (501+ attorneys) than USC does (~30%). Maybe just self-selection?

There are loads of preftigious firms with less than 500 attorneys.

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Rigo
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby Rigo » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:30 am

PeanutsNJam wrote:I'm sorry there's no way a fully at T20 > HYS, unless your goal is to do doc review.

This is so off-base.

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Cobretti
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby Cobretti » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:40 am

seansj1 wrote:On a somewhat different note, Stanford does not put many more students (~35%) into big firms (501+ attorneys) than USC does (~30%). Maybe just self-selection?

The 9 month out employment statistics have another 30% in clerkships, who will mostly be going to prestigious firms after. Even still the number isn't higher than that only because of self selection. Stanford is bulletproof and incomparable to USC.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Harvard/Stanford (no $) vs Cornell (full $) vs USC (full $)

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:55 am

Why have you not included your offer from UCLA with a full tuition scholarship among your options ? Have you checked Duke's placement in SoCal ?

@hisperson1111: Any thoughts regarding UCLA law versus USC law in this field ?




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