WUSTL v. Fordham

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )

Which would you chose?

WUSTL
3
16%
Fordham
16
84%
 
Total votes: 19

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: WUSTL v. Fordham

Postby zombie mcavoy » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:12 pm

kayyy wrote:My current job is really demanding in terms of hours, which I think is what impacted my test score in the first place.

Uhh. How about you take a year-long vacation to Europe or some cheap tropical island to retake? You'll save a ton of money and have a much better chance of reaching your goals. For serious.

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pamphleteer
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Re: WUSTL v. Fordham

Postby pamphleteer » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:16 pm

zombie mcavoy wrote:well that's incredibly stupid but it's your money (well, not for long) and your life. You're effectively taking this person's enormous, generous gift and lighting it on fire.

You're going to seriously regret this in a few years. But at least you can't say you weren't warned.


While I agree that OP is making a mistake this seems a bit over the top. OP does have a ~37-40% chance at landing NYC biglaw with $0 in loan debt to repay from Fordham. That's a pretty solid deal. Is the right call undoubtedly for OP to answer a few more questions correctly on a multiple choice test so that she or he will have a ~65-75% chance at that outcome instead? Yes, obviously. But this doesn't seem as catastrophic a decision as you're making it out to be.

BigZuck
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Re: WUSTL v. Fordham

Postby BigZuck » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:18 pm

kayyy wrote:
BigZuck wrote:This is on the shortlist for "Biggest Mistakes of the 2014-2015 Law School Application Cycle"

You're spending a ton of money that could be put to better use to buy something that likely won't get you where you want to go. And that could all be avoided by taking a 4 hour multiple choice test.


I also would like to elaborate here- I have taken the LSAT two times, both times not doing nearly as well as my PTs. I have honestly put a lot of time and effort into studying but I just really don't think I preform well in a standardized testing setting. I just am not confident that taking a whole year off would guarantee me getting into the LSAT range that I need. I feel like I have pretty decent options now and the thought of postponing my law school plans for another year- with no guarantee that I will absolutely blow the LSAT out of the park is just too risky.

I would quit your job today, start studying up full time for June. If you score significantly higher, then withdraw and reapply to schools that match your career aspirations. In your gap year get another job, or live it up. If you don't score higher, and you're hellbent on this half-baked plan, then go to one of these schools.

I mean, you've gotta do what you've gotta do. But having tons of excess cash on hand and working in a job that holds you back from getting the lsat score you need to get the job that you say you really want strikes me as a really poor life choice.

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: WUSTL v. Fordham

Postby zombie mcavoy » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:28 pm

pamphleteer wrote:
zombie mcavoy wrote:well that's incredibly stupid but it's your money (well, not for long) and your life. You're effectively taking this person's enormous, generous gift and lighting it on fire.

You're going to seriously regret this in a few years. But at least you can't say you weren't warned.


While I agree that OP is making a mistake this seems a bit over the top. OP does have a ~37-40% chance at landing NYC biglaw with $0 in loan debt to repay from Fordham. That's a pretty solid deal. Is the right call undoubtedly for OP to answer a few more questions correctly on a multiple choice test so that she or he will have a ~65-75% chance at that outcome instead? Yes, obviously. But this doesn't seem as catastrophic a decision as you're making it out to be.

this logic accepts the insane premise that a fordham education is worth 250K

Yeah, there is a chance OP could graduate with a biglaw job and no debt to pay. There's an equally good chance she won't have any job as a lawyer upon graduation. Why put yourself into this situation by emptying your bank account when it is completely unnecessary.

Generally when you are in a position to make a ton of money by quitting your job to live on a tropical island and not work for a year, you should favor doing that over unnecessarily emptying your bank account for a shit law school*

*not saying WUSTL or Fordham are shit law schools at heavily discounted rates.

Moneytrees
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Re: WUSTL v. Fordham

Postby Moneytrees » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:33 pm

Mcavoy- I think you are right in saying that Fordham is not remotely worth how much it charges, but a free Fordham education isn't as bad as you make it seem. If OP was taking his inheritance and heading to Cooley, then sure, he's essentially throwing that money away.

Fordham will give OP a decent shot at Biglaw. It might not be objectively the best course of action for OP, but I also wouldn't go as far as to say that he's lighting his money on fire.

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Rigo
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Re: WUSTL v. Fordham

Postby Rigo » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:34 pm

It ain't free though since that's money she currently has in the bank.

Moneytrees
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Re: WUSTL v. Fordham

Postby Moneytrees » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:39 pm

OP has already decided she wants to go to law school though. Our job in giving advice isn't to psycho-analyze her motivations, but to lay out the pros and cons in a rational manner. We already stated several times that the best course of action is to retake, and she understands that going to Fordham/WUSTL entails a risk.

Equating going to Fordham/WUSTL to lighting money on fire is just hyperbole.

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Rigo
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Re: WUSTL v. Fordham

Postby Rigo » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:42 pm

I don't think there's a pro-WUSTL argument to be found here, so enjoy Fordham.

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: WUSTL v. Fordham

Postby zombie mcavoy » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:42 pm

Moneytrees wrote:Equating going to Fordham/WUSTL to lighting money on fire is just hyperbole.

I really wasn't being hyperbolic. WUSTL throws fullies to everyone. Getting a half ride is child's play. This is laziness.

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Clearly
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Re: WUSTL v. Fordham

Postby Clearly » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:03 pm

People equivocating no debt with free is ridiculous. The only difference between what this poster is proposing and Fordham at sticker is the interest rate.

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NoBladesNoBows
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Re: WUSTL v. Fordham

Postby NoBladesNoBows » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:04 pm

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Last edited by NoBladesNoBows on Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

BigZuck
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Re: WUSTL v. Fordham

Postby BigZuck » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:07 pm

BigZuck wrote:I would quit your job today, start studying up full time for June. If you score significantly higher, then withdraw and reapply to schools that match your career aspirations. In your gap year get another job, or live it up. If you don't score higher, and you're hellbent on this half-baked plan, then go to one of these schools.

I mean, you've gotta do what you've gotta do. But having tons of excess cash on hand and working in a job that holds you back from getting the lsat score you need to get the job that you say you really want strikes me as a really poor life choice.

Going to go ahead and bump this cuz I'd like the OP to both achieve their goals and do it for as cheaply as humanly possible

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Clearly
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Re: WUSTL v. Fordham

Postby Clearly » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:11 pm

NoBladesNoBows wrote:Guys, I agree with the statements about the questionability of making this decision, but OP has made it clear that his/her mind is made up. Let's actually address the question that OP asked:

To be frank neither Fordham nor WUSTL has huge national/international recognition. Sure, WUSTL's is probably better nationally, but do you want to have the option to work somewhere else, or do you want to work in NYC? If you want to do NY biglaw Fordham is your choice. There's really no solid argument against this. If you're not certain, and want to keep your options open, that would be a different discussion, but if you are set on NY it is Fordham. Look back at what I posted...WUSTL has a TEN PERCENT placement rate into NY. If you're worried about something being a problem down the line, you should be worried about the fact that WUSTL is not only going to make it more difficult to get a job in New York, but is also going to mean a significantly smaller alumni network (even moreso because Fordham is larger than WUSTL). Seriously, if you want NY biglaw, go to Fordham. That is your answer. Done.

Now just a disclaimer, I do completely agree with everyone else that either of these at sticker is a very poor decision. But ultimately it is your poor decision to make.

Firm disagree. We've been around here long enough to know that people like this are going to take any advice they agree with, and discount your minor disclaimer about you agreeing with us. If you don't think it's a good idea, tell him that. Otherwise you're just feeding him what s/he wants to hear.

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NoBladesNoBows
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Re: WUSTL v. Fordham

Postby NoBladesNoBows » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:15 pm

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Last edited by NoBladesNoBows on Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: WUSTL v. Fordham

Postby zombie mcavoy » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:17 pm

NoBladesNoBows wrote:Guys, I agree with the statements about the questionability of making this decision, but OP has made it clear that his/her mind is made up. Let's actually address the question that OP asked:

very silly logic

"Yes, OP won the lottery and we all agree it would be silly for him to bet his winnings on one game of roulette. But, he's made up his mind, so let's actually address whether he should bet red or black."

sad thing is that playing roulette is a more sensible financial decision. seriously.

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NoBladesNoBows
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Re: WUSTL v. Fordham

Postby NoBladesNoBows » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:22 pm

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Last edited by NoBladesNoBows on Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: WUSTL v. Fordham

Postby zombie mcavoy » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:25 pm

You did not disagree with anything I said. I started by saying that they are going to discount my disclaimer, so what is the point in repeating the same stance over and over, when OP is clearly going to ignore it? It's equivalent to an argument about religion or politics, you are not going to accomplish anything. So since I have accepted that he is going to make a choice that I disagree with, I am going to try to influence something that I actually have the ability to influence.

Op is not here looking for real advice she is looking for validation. She is only listing Wustl because she wants us to know she got into a higher ranked school.

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NoBladesNoBows
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Re: WUSTL v. Fordham

Postby NoBladesNoBows » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:26 pm

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Last edited by NoBladesNoBows on Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BigZuck
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Re: WUSTL v. Fordham

Postby BigZuck » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:27 pm

Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves-
I think the problem is you're saying the OP should just go to Fordham when the correct answer is the OP should quit the job they don't need to have, study for a couple months, and retake the LSAT to try and get into a school that gives them a good shot at achieving their goals. When and if that fails, maybe then they can think of foolishly blowing their money. But right now you're just enabling their laziness.

PoopNpants
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Re: WUSTL v. Fordham

Postby PoopNpants » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:28 pm

You should just take that dough and pay that guy Mike from Suits to take your LSAT for you and enjoy Columbia/NYU

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: WUSTL v. Fordham

Postby zombie mcavoy » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:31 pm

I never said I accepted that we couldn't change her mind to do one of these two incredibly stupid options. We've broken through on people who were about to make choices more stupid than this

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Clearly
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Re: WUSTL v. Fordham

Postby Clearly » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:37 pm

zombie mcavoy wrote:I never said I accepted that we couldn't change her mind to do one of these two incredibly stupid options. We've broken through on people who were about to make choices more stupid than this

Myself included

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NoBladesNoBows
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Re: WUSTL v. Fordham

Postby NoBladesNoBows » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:40 pm

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Last edited by NoBladesNoBows on Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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NoBladesNoBows
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Re: WUSTL v. Fordham

Postby NoBladesNoBows » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:42 pm

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Last edited by NoBladesNoBows on Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Clearly
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Re: WUSTL v. Fordham

Postby Clearly » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:44 pm

NoBladesNoBows wrote:
zombie mcavoy wrote:I never said I accepted that we couldn't change her mind to do one of these two incredibly stupid options. We've broken through on people who were about to make choices more stupid than this


So I guess you see yourself trying to convince her not to choose either option, and you see me as arguing against you by answering her initial question? Have you actually ever broken through to someone? If you honestly have, I'll shut up about going to Fordham over WUSTL.

Yes, surprisingly often actually.
The reason I feel adamantly about this is that I myself was going to a similar school until tls shoved retake down my throat, and I withdrew, busted my ass and retook and ended up at a much better school. I was convinced it would work out and I'm so happy I listened.




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