Why is Political Science considered pre-law?

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RZ5646
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Re: Why is Political Science considered pre-law?

Postby RZ5646 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:27 pm

betty_bojangles wrote:
RZ5646 wrote:I'm a philosophy major and it's improved my writing and reasoning abilities more than I think any other major would have. It also definitely helped as LSAT prep. However, if I had put less effort into it or went to a school with shitty philosophy faculty, things might have been different. It's certainly not the case that philosophy is guaranteed to make you a better thinker or better person, and I'm not claiming that.

All I'm saying is that for prelaw purposes, philosophy is probably the best major.

That being said, going to college just to go to law school is stupid, so ideally prelaw kids would pair philosophy with something marketable.

I think 90% of people should do STEM or business, and if I could go back in time that's what I would do.



I majored in pure math and have also taken a lot of philosophy courses. I think that reading and writing math proofs was significantly more difficult and did much more for my writing/reading and definitely reasoning skills than philosophy work did. I also found that I was in a much better position when approaching the LSAT as a result. Whether or not this will help in law school, I don't know, but if we are talking just reading/writing/reasoning skills I think there are definitely majors that beat out philosophy for sure.


Math and physics probably beat philosophy in the amount of raw brainpower required, I'll give you that.

I am a slightly above average econ major from an average state school. I have several poli sci friends. They are typically working for close to minimum wage not using their degrees.

I don't work IB or consulting or make 65k. Still, I started at $55k in an area where my apartment only costs $400 a month, and got a small raise/bonus in my first 6 months.

I work 40 hours a week most of the time . I don't regret my econ degree at all.


So who did you know that gave you that job? Unless you're STEM, it's all about connections.

Moneytrees
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Re: Why is Political Science considered pre-law?

Postby Moneytrees » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:28 pm

RZ5646 wrote:I'm a philosophy major and it's improved my writing and reasoning abilities more than I think any other major would have. It also definitely helped as LSAT prep. However, if I had put less effort into it or went to a school with shitty philosophy faculty, things might have been different. It's certainly not the case that philosophy is guaranteed to make you a better thinker or better person, and I'm not claiming that.

All I'm saying is that for prelaw purposes, philosophy is probably the best major.

That being said, going to college just to go to law school is stupid, so ideally prelaw kids would pair philosophy with something marketable.

I think 90% of people should do STEM or business, and if I could go back in time that's what I would do.


I pretty much agree with all of this. Philosophy was a great pre-law major. It helped improve my reasoning and writing abilities immensely. Out of all the liberal arts majors, I think it's probably the most useful in preparing you for the LSAT.

Would I advise it to somebody who isn't interested in going to law school? No.

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UVAIce
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Re: Why is Political Science considered pre-law?

Postby UVAIce » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:33 pm

Honestly, in the end it wouldn't matter. Your ability to get a job out of college is a function of your university, grades, and major (this is tripping out personal characteristics). You could be a history major from Princeton with good grades and get a consulting job. You could be a computer science major from a bottom barrel state school and have a hard time getting good employment.

BTW, I doubt I'm the only one, but I know more than a few folks in STEM who don't exactly love their jobs or career paths. Seriously, just go talk with a biology major who couldn't get into med school.

The reality is that the job market sucks. Everyone becoming a STEM major isn't going to magically create more open job positions in the economy.

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RZ5646
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Re: Why is Political Science considered pre-law?

Postby RZ5646 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:40 pm

UVAIce wrote:Honestly, in the end it wouldn't matter. Your ability to get a job out of college is a function of your university, grades, and major (this is tripping out personal characteristics). You could be a history major from Princeton with good grades and get a consulting job. You could be a computer science major from a bottom barrel state school and have a hard time getting good employment.

BTW, I doubt I'm the only one, but I know more than a few folks in STEM who don't exactly love their jobs or career paths. Seriously, just go talk with a biology major who couldn't get into med school.

The reality is that the job market sucks. Everyone becoming a STEM major isn't going to magically create more open job positions in the economy.


Regular science majors are almost as useless as liberal arts majors... you need to do applied math/science like CS or engineering.

And while neither situation is ideal, I'd rather be a rich engineer and hate my job than a poor philosophy major and hate my life.

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Re: Why is Political Science considered pre-law?

Postby Moneytrees » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:41 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:I agree that econ is a bit better, but majors just don't do a lot of work for most people these days. Ivy leaguers who major in psychology or other totally useless crap can get an investment banking job as long as they keep a high GPA. Meanwhile econ majors throughout the country at plebe schools are folding clothes. Or doing shit call center work in Arizona for six years before heading off to law school. Hypothetically.


This is also very true. I feel like GPA trumps everything else. I went to a pretty good school and had a pretty good GPA (little over 3.6). When I signed up with recruiters after graduation, I started getting calls from huge hedge funds and boutique financial planning firms even though I didn't have any background whatsoever in econ or finance. I was puzzled and spoke to my recruiters about it, and their response was basically that those firms are willing to train the "right person".

I ended up taking a solid paralegal position because I wasn't able to land any job offers from the major hedge funds that had interviewed me. I'm pretty sure that if I had had a 3.8, they would have hired me.

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Dog
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Re: Why is Political Science considered pre-law?

Postby Dog » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:43 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:I agree that econ is a bit better, but majors just don't do a lot of work for most people these days. Ivy leaguers who major in psychology or other totally useless crap can get an investment banking job as long as they keep a high GPA. Meanwhile econ majors throughout the country at plebe schools are folding clothes. Or doing shit call center work in Arizona for six years before heading off to law school. Hypothetically.


I would agree with this. Employers are more worried about experience. Fresh grads don't have any, so it becomes more about skills. An econ major from state U isn't going to get a job because they know how to find the area of a triangle and call it consumer surplus.

With any major you're going to have to acquire some of the skills your potential employers are looking for. Eventually your major becomes mostly irrelevant.

Moneytrees
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Re: Why is Political Science considered pre-law?

Postby Moneytrees » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:45 pm

Moneytrees wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:I agree that econ is a bit better, but majors just don't do a lot of work for most people these days. Ivy leaguers who major in psychology or other totally useless crap can get an investment banking job as long as they keep a high GPA. Meanwhile econ majors throughout the country at plebe schools are folding clothes. Or doing shit call center work in Arizona for six years before heading off to law school. Hypothetically.


This is also very true. I feel like GPA trumps everything else. I went to a pretty good school and had a pretty good GPA (little over 3.6). When I signed up with recruiters after graduation, I started getting calls from huge hedge funds and boutique financial planning firms even though I didn't have any background whatsoever in econ or finance. I was puzzled and spoke to my recruiters about it, and their response was basically that those firms are willing to train the "right person".

I ended up taking a solid paralegal position because I wasn't able to land any job offers from the major hedge funds that had interviewed me. I'm pretty sure that if I had had a 3.8, they would have hired me.


I re-read this and it sounded like a humble brag. It wasn't supposed to. My main point is that GPA is the key to landing a good job (and to getting into law school, for that matter).

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RZ5646
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Re: Why is Political Science considered pre-law?

Postby RZ5646 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:49 pm

Moneytrees wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:I agree that econ is a bit better, but majors just don't do a lot of work for most people these days. Ivy leaguers who major in psychology or other totally useless crap can get an investment banking job as long as they keep a high GPA. Meanwhile econ majors throughout the country at plebe schools are folding clothes. Or doing shit call center work in Arizona for six years before heading off to law school. Hypothetically.


This is also very true. I feel like GPA trumps everything else. I went to a pretty good school and had a pretty good GPA (little over 3.6). When I signed up with recruiters after graduation, I started getting calls from huge hedge funds and boutique financial planning firms even though I didn't have any background whatsoever in econ or finance. I was puzzled and spoke to my recruiters about it, and their response was basically that those firms are willing to train the "right person".

I ended up taking a solid paralegal position because I wasn't able to land any job offers from the major hedge funds that had interviewed me. I'm pretty sure that if I had had a 3.8, they would have hired me.


I re-read this and it sounded like a humble brag. It wasn't supposed to. My main point is that GPA is the key to landing a good job (and to getting into law school, for that matter).


You also missed the point of the comment you were replying to, which was that pedigree trumps everything else. An average student with a random major from a target school will beat a 4.0 econ major from Big State U.

I have a 4.0 at a good but not prestigious college and I doubt I'll have any job prospects above like $10 per hour when I graduate. That's one of the primary reasons I'm going to law school.

Connections > prestige > experience > GPA

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UVAIce
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Re: Why is Political Science considered pre-law?

Postby UVAIce » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:50 pm

RZ5646 wrote:
UVAIce wrote:Honestly, in the end it wouldn't matter. Your ability to get a job out of college is a function of your university, grades, and major (this is tripping out personal characteristics). You could be a history major from Princeton with good grades and get a consulting job. You could be a computer science major from a bottom barrel state school and have a hard time getting good employment.

BTW, I doubt I'm the only one, but I know more than a few folks in STEM who don't exactly love their jobs or career paths. Seriously, just go talk with a biology major who couldn't get into med school.

The reality is that the job market sucks. Everyone becoming a STEM major isn't going to magically create more open job positions in the economy.


Regular science majors are almost as useless as liberal arts majors... you need to do applied math/science like CS or engineering.

And while neither situation is ideal, I'd rather be a rich engineer and hate my job than a poor philosophy major and hate my life.


I could say a lot here, but mostly I just want to point out the fact that some people make truly poor engineers and there are unemployed engineers. There are only so many positions. But yes, I would rather be an electrical engineer from a bottom of the barrel school than a philosophy major from a bottom of the barrel school.

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Dog
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Re: Why is Political Science considered pre-law?

Postby Dog » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:50 pm

Don't worry about it my post was worse. I wasn't even trying to brag just defend my major lol.

Moneytrees
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Re: Why is Political Science considered pre-law?

Postby Moneytrees » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:54 pm

RZ5646 wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:I agree that econ is a bit better, but majors just don't do a lot of work for most people these days. Ivy leaguers who major in psychology or other totally useless crap can get an investment banking job as long as they keep a high GPA. Meanwhile econ majors throughout the country at plebe schools are folding clothes. Or doing shit call center work in Arizona for six years before heading off to law school. Hypothetically.


This is also very true. I feel like GPA trumps everything else. I went to a pretty good school and had a pretty good GPA (little over 3.6). When I signed up with recruiters after graduation, I started getting calls from huge hedge funds and boutique financial planning firms even though I didn't have any background whatsoever in econ or finance. I was puzzled and spoke to my recruiters about it, and their response was basically that those firms are willing to train the "right person".

I ended up taking a solid paralegal position because I wasn't able to land any job offers from the major hedge funds that had interviewed me. I'm pretty sure that if I had had a 3.8, they would have hired me.


I re-read this and it sounded like a humble brag. It wasn't supposed to. My main point is that GPA is the key to landing a good job (and to getting into law school, for that matter).


You also missed the point of the comment you were replying to, which was that pedigree trumps everything else. An average student with a random major from a target school will beat a 4.0 econ major from Big State U.

I have a 4.0 at a good but not prestigious college and I doubt I'll have any job prospects above like $10 per hour when I graduate. That's one of the primary reasons I'm going to law school.

Connections > prestige > experience > GPA


I'm actually not so sure about that. Obviously an ivy league grad will have plenty of options at graduation. But a 4.0 student from a "good" school will probably have some great options as well. My school is a top 35 school and I had numerous interviews, some at prestigious firms, following graduation. If I had had a 4.0, I probably would be at one of those firms and wouldn't be going to law school.

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Re: Why is Political Science considered pre-law?

Postby BigZuck » Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:13 pm

I hope this thread goes another 3 or 4 more pages.

2on1
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Re: Why is Political Science considered pre-law?

Postby 2on1 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:48 pm

I thought Poli Sci was required. It said fucking (pre-law) on the form.

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starry eyed
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Re: Why is Political Science considered pre-law?

Postby starry eyed » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:57 pm

I wish my parents were asian and grilled me to perform well in high school-then i wouldn't have had to strive in college to make up for it.

junggn
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Re: Why is Political Science considered pre-law?

Postby junggn » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:20 pm

starry eyed wrote:I wish my parents were asian and grilled me to perform well in high school-then i wouldn't have had to strive in college to make up for it.


LOL not quite how that works but ok.

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RZ5646
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Re: Why is Political Science considered pre-law?

Postby RZ5646 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:34 pm

starry eyed wrote:I wish my parents were asian and grilled me to perform well in high school-then i wouldn't have had to strive in college to make up for it.


I think being rich is more important for prestigious UG admissions. As far as I know, being Asian is actually a disadvantage at every top college except Berkeley.

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starry eyed
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Re: Why is Political Science considered pre-law?

Postby starry eyed » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:37 pm

RZ5646 wrote:
starry eyed wrote:I wish my parents were asian and grilled me to perform well in high school-then i wouldn't have had to strive in college to make up for it.


I think being rich is more important for prestigious UG admissions. As far as I know, being Asian is actually a disadvantage at every top college except Berkeley.


well i'm white, i just wished i had been adopted by asians... so i could have the benefits of growing up in an asian household without the disadvantages




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