Latest employment data

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BigZuck
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby BigZuck » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:04 pm

The issue I think is that "Mostly interested in PI" means "Lol, you're obviously not going to do PI dude, see you at OCI."

Buttloads of 0Ls are mostly interested in PI. But there they are at OCI.

So if you want to do OCI at Michigan then go for it.

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runinthefront
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby runinthefront » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:08 pm

hoos89 wrote:Your math seems to assume that nobody has a scholarship and everybody is paying 100% of their living expenses to the school.


What point is your comment trying to make? Would a total COA of 150k make it better? Genuine question--not trying to be a jerk.

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hoos89
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby hoos89 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:10 pm

runinthefront wrote:
hoos89 wrote:Your math seems to assume that nobody has a scholarship and everybody is paying 100% of their living expenses to the school.


What point is your comment trying to make? Would a total COA of 150k make it better? Genuine question--not trying to be a jerk.


COA is what it is (the student still has to pay it, although I would argue that living costs are not actual costs of attending school because you'd be paying them regardless unless you'd otherwise be living at home or something), point is that the school isn't getting all of it. Still a good deal for the school, but if someone's going to use numbers to support a point they should at least be right.

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storpappa
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby storpappa » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:15 pm

It doesn't matter who the name is on the checks, the student is still writing checks for 3 years.

And not working full time, which would have offset those living expenses.... again the assumption is not living at home and not living off of a trust fund. If your wanting to see a full list of disclaimers.

The point of the SFJ is still the same ... it benefits the school, not the student.

envisciguy
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby envisciguy » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:15 pm

That Emory plan is ridiculous. $12k/year and they're limited to working 80 hours a month. You can make more working at McDonald's. I can't believe that counts for their employment stats.

Just for contrast, the UVA Kennedy Fellowship funded positions pay $31.5k and include bar review stipends. Not all law school funded positions are equal.

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runinthefront
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby runinthefront » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:16 pm

envisciguy wrote:That Emory plan is ridiculous. $12k/year and they're limited to working 80 hours a month. You can make more working at McDonald's. I can't believe that counts for their employment stats.

Just for contrast, the UVA Kennedy Fellowship funded positions pay $31.5k and include bar review stipends. Not all law school funded positions are equal.


is 100% of UVA's SFJ the Kennedy Fellowship? If so, that's not a bad deal (considering the other option is unemployment)

For what it's worth, from what I hear, at least a few of Cornell's 12 SFJ for c/o 2014 were closer to Emory's plan than UVA's.
Last edited by runinthefront on Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sneezus
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby sneezus » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:20 pm

runinthefront wrote:
sneezus wrote:fuck. i had just come to the decision that Michigan would be where I deposit this month (they offered me 120k).

this just throws it all back up in the air. I'm mostly interested in PI, but i really want the biglaw option there.


Lol $120k from UM for primarily PI w/ option of biglaw is still not a bad option

please don't take this side-commentary the wrong way

just don't end up like the hard-headed peers that precede you and understand that you're not getting Indianapolis biglaw or w/e secondary markets these kids target

That's a nice amount of scholly $$$


yeah you're right, so is Mal Reynolds up there (ya twat). overreaction probably. it's a nerve-wracking time, i'm clearly a bit on edge about this stuff. i'll chill

envisciguy
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby envisciguy » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:20 pm

runinthefront wrote:
envisciguy wrote:That Emory plan is ridiculous. $12k/year and they're limited to working 80 hours a month. You can make more working at McDonald's. I can't believe that counts for their employment stats.

Just for contrast, the UVA Kennedy Fellowship funded positions pay $31.5k and include bar review stipends. Not all law school funded positions are equal.


is 100% of UVA's SFJ the Kennedy Fellowship? If so, that's not a bad deal (considering the other option is unemployment)

For what it's worth, from what I hear, Cornell's at least a few of Cornell's 12 SFJ for c/o 2014 were closer to Emory's plan than UVA's.


From my understanding, they're all either Kennedy or Powell fellowships. Powell is $40k.

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hoos89
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby hoos89 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:26 pm

storpappa wrote:It doesn't matter who the name is on the checks, the student is still writing checks for 3 years.

And not working full time, which would have offset those living expenses.... again the assumption is not living at home and not living off of a trust fund. If your wanting to see a full list of disclaimers.

The point of the SFJ is still the same ... it benefits the school, not the student.



It matters to the school whose name is on the checks, and that was kind of your point: that the school gets $198k guaranteed. They don't. It probably averages more like $90k per student (assuming SFJ payment). Also, you're right: foregone income (if any) is a cost of attendance, but cost of living is not (except to the extent you pay more for CoL in school than you otherwise would).

Also, to say flat out that SFJ doesn't benefit students at all is kind of silly. It benefits the school by helping them boost their employment numbers (although the new ABA disclosures temper that somewhat), and it benefits the students by effectively giving them a partial refund of tuition (8% at sticker, 16% on a half scholarship). It's not as good as reducing the tuition to begin with, but it's still better than doing neither.

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Robb
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Robb » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:30 pm

hoos89 wrote:Also, to say flat out that SFJ doesn't benefit students at all is kind of silly. It benefits the school by helping them boost their employment numbers (although the new ABA disclosures temper that somewhat), and it benefits the students by effectively giving them a partial refund of tuition (8% at sticker, 16% on a half scholarship). It's not as good as reducing the tuition to begin with, but it's still better than doing neither.

it also gives them experience, which could be helpful in leading to a permanent job. would be nice to have data of what people do after the school funded job

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TheodoreKGB
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby TheodoreKGB » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:35 pm

.
Last edited by TheodoreKGB on Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BrazilBandit
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby BrazilBandit » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:36 pm


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Robb
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Robb » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:37 pm

TheodoreKGB wrote:https://www.law.georgetown.edu/careers/ocs/upload/ABA-Website-Info.pdf
You thought Michigan was bad?

Wow.

80% FTLTBR, 48% BL+FC, 70% FTLTBR w/o SFJ.

(-4%, -1%, and +2% respectively)
Last edited by Robb on Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

envisciguy
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby envisciguy » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:41 pm

TheodoreKGB wrote:https://www.law.georgetown.edu/careers/ocs/upload/ABA-Website-Info.pdf
You thought Michigan was bad?


GeorgeTTTown strikes again!

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pamphleteer
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby pamphleteer » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:46 pm

Can we stop calling it the T14 now?

queerqueg
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby queerqueg » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:47 pm

looking forward to the damage control on this one

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hoos89
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby hoos89 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:48 pm

I know people always use the PI excuse for NYU, but I wonder how much that holds up for GULC. They're 24% government/PI. Any idea how much of that is self-selection versus striking out at OCI?

E: Their FLTBR minus SFJ numbers make me lean more towards the "striking out" explanation, though.

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Clemenceau
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Clemenceau » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:55 pm

Hasn't gulc typically been at least somewhat decent for clerkships?

22/626 = 3.5% fed clerk

And 29 state/local clerkships is probably not a good sign either from my understanding of local clerkships

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:58 pm

pamphleteer wrote:Can we stop calling it the T14 now?

Moneytrees
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Moneytrees » Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:00 pm

Disparity in outcomes between Georgetown and the rest of the T14 is starting to really be huge.

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Winston1984
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Winston1984 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:02 pm

Is it the T12, or the T13?

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Desert Fox
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Desert Fox » Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:03 pm

I wonder if the Chicago market was poor in 2014. At northwestern, rumor was 2013 was a better year than 2014. I wonder if that was just because of the Chicago market and if it impacted Michigan as well.

IMO the "prestige" hypothesis is least convincing. I'd assume self selection is a much bigger factor in school to school variance.

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby zombie mcavoy » Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:06 pm

Winston1984 wrote:Is it the T12, or the T13?

T13 for now, because 0Ls are not going to assume the excluded school is Michigan if it were T12. But now we begin the push for T12. Has to be incremental.

BigZuck
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby BigZuck » Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:07 pm

Mack.Hambleton wrote:
pamphleteer wrote:Can we stop calling it the T14 now?

Now is the time to strike, UT

(comes in with <40% big law/clerkships)

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hoos89
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby hoos89 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:08 pm

Winston1984 wrote:Is it the T12, or the T13?


At least Michigan had 81.8% LTFTBR - SFJ, compared to GULC's 69.65% (which is worse than a bunch of non-T14 schools).
Last edited by hoos89 on Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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