Latest employment data

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MikeJD
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby MikeJD » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:28 pm

Yeah you're right about Georgetown but even they will beat vandy by a lot in biglaw clerkship section.

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:32 pm

MikeJD wrote:Yeah you're right about Georgetown but even they will beat vandy by a lot in biglaw clerkship section.


last year they were only better by 1 percent.....

queerqueg
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby queerqueg » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:32 pm

MikeJD wrote:Yeah you're right about Georgetown but even they will beat vandy by a lot in biglaw clerkship section.


http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/vanderbilt/gulc/

timmyd
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby timmyd » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:34 pm

I anticipate UT being around 42-45% big law fed clerk. Vandy and GTown closer to 50. It's weird because really, if entrance criteria are a reliable yardstick, UT/Vandy students are indiscernable from some bottom t14. Large class size doesn't help for UT.

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LET'S GET IT
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby LET'S GET IT » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:35 pm

MikeJD wrote:Yeah you're right about Georgetown but even they will beat vandy by a lot in biglaw clerkship section.



How do you figure? Difference last year was 1%.

Vandy: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/vanderbilt/2013/

GULC: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/gulc/

Even if the difference is bigger this year, GULC will be a lot closer to Vandy than they are to any T13.

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bowser
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby bowser » Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:21 pm

One concern: Biglaw hiring is nearing pre-recession norms, but the number of school-funded jobs remain persistently high. This may be a permanent phenomenon: so many schools are willing to provide free labor for a year after graduation, so more employers are taking advantage of it. But you'd hope that a healthier market would be nudging more employers towards, you know, paying their employees.

03152016
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby 03152016 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:33 pm

school funded is the new normal
schools would rather provide funding for one year than reduce class sizes to reflect market demand and lose three years of tuition

johnsont426
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby johnsont426 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:46 pm

JFO1833 wrote:26: Arizona-State - BL+FC-14%, FTLTBR-69%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-68%


isn't FTLTBR(w/o LSF) supposed to be 70%?

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MT Cicero
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby MT Cicero » Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:54 pm

johnsont426 wrote:
JFO1833 wrote:26: Arizona-State - BL+FC-14%, FTLTBR-69%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-68%


isn't FTLTBR(w/o LSF) supposed to be 70%?


All numbers in this thread exclude solo shops. So, subtract 5 from the number you're using and you should come up with the above numbers.

johnsont426
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby johnsont426 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:03 am

MT Cicero wrote:
johnsont426 wrote:
JFO1833 wrote:26: Arizona-State - BL+FC-14%, FTLTBR-69%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-68%


isn't FTLTBR(w/o LSF) supposed to be 70%?


All numbers in this thread exclude solo shops. So, subtract 5 from the number you're using and you should come up with the above numbers.


Got it!

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Saddle Up
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Saddle Up » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:06 am

jenesaislaw wrote:
storpappa wrote:When does this translate into the great folks at LST updating their data?


As soon as the ABA releases the data. I can usually turn it around in under 3 hours.

Is there a consensus on how LST will evaluate SFJ? Just on the partial employment releases so far there are more than a handful of schools using SFJ to prop up their employment stats. Seems like USNWR just shrugs it off.

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runinthefront
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby runinthefront » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:10 am

Saddle Up wrote:
jenesaislaw wrote:
storpappa wrote:When does this translate into the great folks at LST updating their data?


As soon as the ABA releases the data. I can usually turn it around in under 3 hours.

Is there a consensus on how LST will evaluate SFJ? Just on the partial employment releases so far there are more than a handful of schools using SFJ to prop up their employment stats. Seems like USNWR just shrugs it off.


They already list the percentage of SFJ prominently on each's school report + put a little red asterisk next to the "employment score" percentage to denote that the percentage includes SFJ. I don't know what more they could do...

...Maybe a running list of which schools employ the most students? The only downside to this is schools funding jobs > schools letting their students eat shit

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star fox
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby star fox » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:14 am

Desert Fox wrote:
KMart wrote:NU with <80% employed? Even though 65% get BLFC? That's an odd dichotomy to me.


Is issue is "Bar Required" and NU has a ton of JD/MBAs who recently end up working in non-law jobs. FTLTBR includes someone making 30k doing shitlaw but someone making 145K in business. You have to take out JD/MBAs from NU data if you want to compare it to a typical school.

Not bad when you consider last year 82% of JD/MBAs (which are around 10% of the class) went into business instead of law.

http://www.law.northwestern.edu/profess ... ts/jd-mba/

This sort of thing is why comparing schools based on naked metrics comes up with weird results.

NU's JD-Advantage (33/284 - 11.62 % -> 25/291 - 8.59 %) and Business/Industry (39/284 -13.73 % -> 22/291 - 7.56 %) are fairly noticeably down. I'm guessing this won't bode well for the more comprehensive salary data which hasn't been released yet despite BL/FC staying constant.

JFO1833
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby JFO1833 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:15 am

Saddle Up wrote:Seems like USNWR just shrugs it off.


They did consider it and gave LSF jobs less weight, but they don't tell us how much less.

Starting with this year's rankings, U.S. News discounted the value of full-time jobs lasting at least a year for which bar passage was required or a J.D. degree was an advantage in cases where the job was funded by the law school or the university. Previously, those two job types were fully weighted in the ranking calculations. In addition, all other types of law-school-funded and university-funded jobs were discounted more than in previous rankings.

JFO1833
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby JFO1833 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:24 am

47: Maryland - BL+FC-9%, FTLTBR-57%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-57%
https://www.law.umaryland.edu/prospecti ... y-2014.pdf

59: Case Western - BL+FC-12%, FTLTBR-55%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-54%
RNP: Thomas Jefferson - BL+FC-1%, FTLTBR-26%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-26%

All data excludes solos.

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:43 am

We should use this data and create two rankings: 1) in terms of big law + fed clerk % 2) another in terms of full time JD required employment 9 months out. Some of these schools ranked 15-50 by us news are way outperforming their "ranking."

MikeJD
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby MikeJD » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:57 am

LET'S GET IT wrote:
MikeJD wrote:Yeah you're right about Georgetown but even they will beat vandy by a lot in biglaw clerkship section.



How do you figure? Difference last year was 1%.

Vandy: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/vanderbilt/2013/

GULC: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/gulc/

Even if the difference is bigger this year, GULC will be a lot closer to Vandy than they are to any T13.


First of all Georgetown already beat Vandy by 10% at the NLJ top 250 firms.

In fact vandy finished behind texas,UCLA and USC in the NLJ 250. Again Georgetown is the worst of the so called t-14 but it's still ahead of all the others..

http://tippingthescales.com/2015/02/the ... w-schools/

m.r.ducks
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby m.r.ducks » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:23 am

I suppose most of the disparity in the top 250 firms can be attributed to location. Georgetown is the best law school in the second biggest legal market in the US. Most big firms have representation there. DC though is very desirable and everyone applies there. Vandy and Tx don't have to compete nearly as often with other students from the T14 in their home markets and have a network for top federal clerkships and big law jobs. They also have a built in applicant base as most Texas folks will apply to UT and most southerners will apply to Vandy and Duke. In NY alone you have three better schools in Columbia, NYU, and Cornell. It really is one of relative ease of competition v. ease of access. When the big markets of NYC and DC are hiring, the schools that feed into those markets tend to do better.

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MT Cicero
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby MT Cicero » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:39 am

star fox wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
KMart wrote:NU with <80% employed? Even though 65% get BLFC? That's an odd dichotomy to me.


Is issue is "Bar Required" and NU has a ton of JD/MBAs who recently end up working in non-law jobs. FTLTBR includes someone making 30k doing shitlaw but someone making 145K in business. You have to take out JD/MBAs from NU data if you want to compare it to a typical school.

Not bad when you consider last year 82% of JD/MBAs (which are around 10% of the class) went into business instead of law.

http://www.law.northwestern.edu/profess ... ts/jd-mba/

This sort of thing is why comparing schools based on naked metrics comes up with weird results.

NU's JD-Advantage (33/284 - 11.62 % -> 25/291 - 8.59 %) and Business/Industry (39/284 -13.73 % -> 22/291 - 7.56 %) are fairly noticeably down. I'm guessing this won't bode well for the more comprehensive salary data which hasn't been released yet despite BL/FC staying constant.


I don't know if it's enough to show up on the 25-50-75 salary data. Losing 25 in raw numbers in business but gaining 8 (I think) in 100+ law firms is a net loss of 17 in those jobs that should pay well. Might see some movement in the 25 number I guess.

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TheodoreKGB
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby TheodoreKGB » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:40 am

.
Last edited by TheodoreKGB on Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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starry eyed
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby starry eyed » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:44 am

53% michigan for the W

side note: i feel bad for those that chose michigan over Cornell

FloridaCoastalorbust
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby FloridaCoastalorbust » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:49 am

starry eyed wrote:53% michigan for the W

side note: i feel bad for those that chose michigan over Cornell


BUT THE RANKINGS

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Rigo
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Rigo » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:49 am

TheodoreKGB wrote:Not looking good for Michigan Law

Yikes.

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starry eyed
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby starry eyed » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:50 am

seriously if anyone is thinking of stepping up for michigan, you're objectively wrong

BigZuck
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby BigZuck » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:51 am

starry eyed wrote:53% michigan for the W

side note: i feel bad for those that chose michigan over Cornell

Why? They didn't want stinky NYC anyway. They were all BIG GRAND RAPIDS LAW or bust. Better to have bid impossible bids and struck out then to have never OCIed at all.




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