Latest employment data

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JohannDeMann
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby JohannDeMann » Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:50 pm

chimp wrote:
idontknow1 wrote:
chimp wrote:I always wonder what the "Business & Industry" jobs consist of. It probably varies considerably based on school tier, but it would be interesting to know.


This is from a 75-100 school, I was wondering this too and came upon it today: http://i.imgur.com/vP281ax.jpg

1/3 of this category is still listed as "other" :|

i'm sure the lower-ranked the school the shittier the "business & industry" jobs tend to be. at higher ranked schools, legit in-house gigs are way easier to come by.


shit i mean 1/4 of the shitty school students business and industry are in entertainment/sports management. that sounds pretty fucking cool. i didnt know that existed.

disco_stu
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby disco_stu » Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:54 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:
chimp wrote:
idontknow1 wrote:
chimp wrote:I always wonder what the "Business & Industry" jobs consist of. It probably varies considerably based on school tier, but it would be interesting to know.


This is from a 75-100 school, I was wondering this too and came upon it today: http://i.imgur.com/vP281ax.jpg

1/3 of this category is still listed as "other" :|

i'm sure the lower-ranked the school the shittier the "business & industry" jobs tend to be. at higher ranked schools, legit in-house gigs are way easier to come by.


shit i mean 1/4 of the shitty school students business and industry are in entertainment/sports management. that sounds pretty fucking cool. i didnt know that existed.


Yeah, working at Dick's Sporting Goods sounds super cool.

Wattz
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Wattz » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:11 pm


JFO1833
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby JFO1833 » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:32 pm

I redid this with solos removed from the calculation.

BL+FC: 101+ attorneys + federal clerkships over total graduates
FTLTBR: Full time-long term-bar required positions, excluding solo practice, over total graduates.
FTLTBR (w/o LSF): Full time-long term-bar required positions, excluding solo practice and law school funded, over total graduates.

New this time:

Yale, USC, William & Mary, Georgia, Indiana (Bloomington), UNC, Colorado, Arizona, Washington and Lee, Syracuse, Washburn, Quinnipiac, Albany

1: Yale - BL+FC-60%, FTLTBR-73%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-70% <-- Corrected
7: Penn - BL+FC-78%, FTLTBR-94%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-91%
8: Duke - BL+FC-70%, FTLTBR-90%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-88%
8: UVA - BL+FC-68%, FTLTBR-94%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-85%
19: Emory - BL+FC-29%, FTLTBR-82%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-63%
20: USC - BL+FC-41%, FTLTBR-79%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-65%
22: Notre Dame - BL+FC-37%, FTLTBR-79%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-66%
29: William and Mary - BL+FC-21%, FTLTBR-72%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-63%
30: Irvine - BL+FC-28%, FTLTBR-73%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-62%
31: Davis - BL+FC-18%, FTLTBR-78%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-66%
31: Georgia - BL+FC-20%, FTLTBR-71%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-71%
34: BYU - BL+FC-19%, FTLTBR-75%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-67%
34: Fordham - BL+FC-37%, FTLTBR-68%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-68%
34: Indiana (Bloomington) - BL+FC-19%, FTLTBR-64%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-64%
34: Ohio State - BL+FC-20%, FTLTBR-73%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-72%
34: UNC - BL+FC-26%, FTLTBR-69%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-68%
40: Colorado - BL+FC-15%, FTLTBR-70%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-67%
41: Illinois - BL+FC-29%, FTLTBR-72%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-64%
42: Arizona - BL+FC-8%, FTLTBR-72%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-65%
42: Washington and Lee - BL+FC-20%, FTLTBR-65%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-64%
47: Florida - BL+FC-17%, FTLTBR-68%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-68%
50: Tulane - BL+FC-18%, FTLTBR-61%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-61%
52: Pepperdine - BL+FC-9%, FTLTBR-46%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-46%
52: Richmond - BL+FC-13%, FTLTBR-56%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-56%
56: Nebraska - BL+FC-8%, FTLTBR-67%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-67%
63: Miami - BL+FC-10%, FTLTBR-67%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-67%
67: UNLV - BL+FC-6%, FTLTBR-65%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-64%
71: American - BL+FC-12%, FTLTBR-55%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-45%
71: Penn State - BL+FC-11%, FTLTBR-65%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-65%
75: Arkansas-Fayetteville - BL+FC-9%, FTLTBR-53%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-53%
78: Illinois-Tech (Kent) - BL+FC-8%, FTLTBR-50%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-50%
78: Loyola Chicago - BL+FC-11%, FTLTBR-55%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-55%
82: St. John's - BL+FC-10%, FTLTBR-61%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-61%
87: SUNY-Buffalo - BL+FC-8%, FTLTBR-59%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-59%
87: Syracuse - BL+FC-11%, FTLTBR-57%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-57%
87: Vilanova - BL+FC-16%, FTLTBR-65%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-65%
94: Lewis & Clark - BL+FC-6%, FTLTBR-52%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-52%
108: Catholic (Columbus) - BL+FC-6%, FTLTBR-46%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-46%
108: Wyoming - BL+FC-1%, FTLTBR-49%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-49%
110: Maine - BL+FC-4%, FTLTBR-46%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-46%
113: Seattle - BL+FC-4%, FTLTBR-45%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-45%
118: Mercer - BL+FC-7%, FTLTBR-68%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-68%
122: Hofstra - BL+FC-5%, FTLTBR-57%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-56%
122: Washburn - BL+FC-3%, FTLTBR-63%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-63%
127: Drexel - BL+FC-8%, FTLTBR-60%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-60%
127: Quinnipiac - BL+FC-2%, FTLTBR-42%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-42%
135: Loyola New Orleans - BL+FC-5%, FTLTBR-49%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-48%
138: Albany - BL+FC-3%, FTLTBR-62%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-62%
138: Pace - BL+FC-4%, FTLTBR-56%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-54%
RNP: Appalachian - BL+FC-3%, FTLTBR-33%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-33%
RNP: Arizona Summit - BL+FC-1%, FTLTBR-39%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-37%
RNP: Ave Maria - BL+FC-0%, FTLTBR-35%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-35%
RNP: Capital - BL+FC-2%, FTLTBR-34%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-34%
RNP: Charlotte - BL+FC-0%, FTLTBR-29%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-29%
RNP: Florida Costal - BL+FC-1%, FTLTBR-33%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-33%
RNP: Liberty - BL+FC-1%, FTLTBR-42%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-41%
RNP: McGeroge - BL+FC-4%, FTLTBR-43%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-42%
RNP: Northern Kentucky - BL+FC-6%, FTLTBR-42%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-42%
RNP: Puerto Rico - BL+FC-2%, FTLTBR-15%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-15%
RNP: Widener-DE - BL+FC-2%, FTLTBR-44%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-44%
RNP: Widener-Harrisburg - BL+FC-2%, FTLTBR-52%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-52%
RNP: WMU-Cooley - BL+FC-1%, FTLTBR-26%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-26%
UNR: LaVerne - BL+FC-0%, FTLTBR-39%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-39%
UNR: UMass-Dartmouth - BL+FC-2%, FTLTBR-22%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-22%
Last edited by JFO1833 on Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

The Dark Shepard
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby The Dark Shepard » Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:03 am

JFO1833 wrote:
1: Yale - BL+FC-60%, FTLTBR-68%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-65%


The fuck?

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:08 am

leeks

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:09 am


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rpupkin
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby rpupkin » Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:11 am

The Dark Shepard wrote:
JFO1833 wrote:
1: Yale - BL+FC-60%, FTLTBR-68%, FTLTBR (w/o LSF)-65%


The fuck?

Hey at least YLS tied Penn......Penn State, that is! Both at 65% FTLTBR

YLS is in decline. It's about to become the Cornell of New Haven but without the baller big law placement.

Clearly more sub-tier reorganization is in order. I am confident that BigZuck is on it.

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Robb
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Robb » Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:19 am

Isn't it 72.6% LTFTBR? 167/230

Minus school funded should be 69.6%.

JFO1833
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby JFO1833 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:26 am

Robb wrote:Isn't it 72.6% LTFTBR? 167/230

Minus school funded should be 69.6%.


Yep, fat fingered a number in my calculations. Fixed it.

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starry eyed
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby starry eyed » Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:37 am

"but surely the other 30% are working super interesting jobs such as sports agent or going into politics"
"yea no one from yale even wants those law jobs!"

bobbybird
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby bobbybird » Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:47 am

Desert Fox wrote:
chimp wrote:
Mack.Hambleton wrote:
chimp wrote:I always wonder what the "Business & Industry" jobs consist of. It probably varies considerably based on school tier, but it would be interesting to know.


at penn its mostly JD/MBA doing consulting or other finance shit. Probably mostly similar in the T14

also, i feel like going in-house directly out of law school (although still fairly rare) is becoming more of a thing, especially for transactional people who missed the biglaw boat.


in house and compliance are big.

Here is what NU's looks like. 82% of business report their salaries and bottom 25% of those reported are 113k. Not too shabby

http://www.law.northwestern.edu/profess ... index.html


Not to nitpick but bottom 25% aren't 113k, it's 98.75k. I think you might've looked at the mean, which is 113k.

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pamphleteer
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby pamphleteer » Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:52 am

starry eyed wrote:"but surely the other 30% are working super interesting jobs such as sports agent or going into politics"
"yea no one from yale even wants those law jobs!"


Seriously though, what's the actual explanation for this? Because 30% "self-selecting" into jobs that don't require the use of the degree they just spent three years and $250k on seems like bullshit.

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bowser
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby bowser » Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:02 am

pamphleteer wrote:
starry eyed wrote:"but surely the other 30% are working super interesting jobs such as sports agent or going into politics"
"yea no one from yale even wants those law jobs!"


Seriously though, what's the actual explanation for this? Because 30% "self-selecting" into jobs that don't require the use of the degree they just spent three years and $250k on seems like bullshit.



from my interactions with YLS people, even among those summering at biglaw, a good 1/3--1/2 are very ambivalent about it and openly talk about going into other things. Those things include career paths that aren't traditional legal jobs. Yale grads are probs the most confident they'll actually be able to make those things happen, and therefore the most likely to turn down the 160K just sitting there for them.

Weirdly, the year that most Yalies actually became lawyers was 2011, the worst hiring year in history (90% J.D.-required long term)

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:04 am

pamphleteer wrote:
starry eyed wrote:"but surely the other 30% are working super interesting jobs such as sports agent or going into politics"
"yea no one from yale even wants those law jobs!"


Seriously though, what's the actual explanation for this? Because 30% "self-selecting" into jobs that don't require the use of the degree they just spent three years and $250k on seems like bullshit.


well lets look at their report:

Out of a class of 230

20 employed by the school, assuming PI fellowship stuff mostly
15 people in business, probably consulting and stuff
10 doing more education for whatever reason
10 people in the various unemployed categories

and since their class is so small, that makes up the 25% or so of non JD required jobs

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JohannDeMann
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby JohannDeMann » Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:10 am

So there's 40% in lawyer jobs in law firms, 31% in clerking, 5% pursuing another graduate degree, 4% in education 7% in industry, 6% in govt, 12% in PI. Seems pretty straight forward. Biglaw sucks. If I could be a prof I would - which looks to be about 9% of their class there or trying to get there. Rest is self explanatory.

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rpupkin
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby rpupkin » Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:57 am

JohannDeMann wrote:So there's 40% in lawyer jobs in law firms, 31% in clerking, 5% pursuing another graduate degree, 4% in education 7% in industry, 6% in govt, 12% in PI. Seems pretty straight forward. Biglaw sucks. If I could be a prof I would - which looks to be about 9% of their class there or trying to get there. Rest is self explanatory.

Yeah, that's why I'm somewhat amused by the "OMG PENN/CORNELL!!" thing happening on TLS. Obviously NYC big law beats being unemployed with tons of debt, but most of those folks will be miserable.

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lhanvt13
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby lhanvt13 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:47 am

well shit, completely missed the boat and just now hopping on. Biglaw seems to be heading upwards. #NYCto190 Confirmed

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cron1834
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby cron1834 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:41 am

JohannDeMann wrote:So there's 40% in lawyer jobs in law firms, 31% in clerking, 5% pursuing another graduate degree, 4% in education 7% in industry, 6% in govt, 12% in PI. Seems pretty straight forward. Biglaw sucks. If I could be a prof I would - which looks to be about 9% of their class there or trying to get there. Rest is self explanatory.

Yeah. I also don't understand what people are confused about here. Self selecting out of NYC biglaw may be uncommon at Cornell or Penn, but not everywhere. Especially Yale.

BigZuck
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby BigZuck » Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:35 am

HS
CCNP
DCN
B
V
GM
U(T)
Y

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Dafaq
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Dafaq » Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:40 am

Looking forward on comparing UT to GTown.

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starry eyed
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby starry eyed » Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:46 am

Mack.Hambleton wrote:
pamphleteer wrote:
starry eyed wrote:"but surely the other 30% are working super interesting jobs such as sports agent or going into politics"
"yea no one from yale even wants those law jobs!"


Seriously though, what's the actual explanation for this? Because 30% "self-selecting" into jobs that don't require the use of the degree they just spent three years and $250k on seems like bullshit.


well lets look at their report:

Out of a class of 230

20 employed by the school, assuming PI fellowship stuff mostly
15 people in business, probably consulting and stuff
10 doing more education for whatever reason
10 people in the various unemployed categories

and since their class is so small, that makes up the 25% or so of non JD required jobs


lol

if this was say gtown/uva, you would have said business was starbucks and the school employed were losers
Last edited by starry eyed on Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

Moneytrees
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Moneytrees » Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:04 am

The Biglaw rates seem to be approaching similar rates as during the mid-2000's. Those were the years when even non-14 schools like USC, BU and GW routinely approached (and crossed) the 40% mark. It's pretty interesting. It was only a couple years ago that Georgetown and Michigan had a hard time placing 40% of their classes into Biglaw jobs.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Tiago Splitter » Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:30 am

Moneytrees wrote:The Biglaw rates seem to be approaching similar rates as during the mid-2000's. Those were the years when even non-14 schools like USC, BU and GW routinely approached (and crossed) the 40% mark. It's pretty interesting. It was only a couple years ago that Georgetown and Michigan had a hard time placing 40% of their classes into Biglaw jobs.

Yeah there's a bit of a myth out there that things were always peachy until the recession, but class of 2013 put more people into firms of 100+ than the classes of the late 90's and 2003-2004. For better or worse what we're seeing now is consistent with the way things have always been.

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starry eyed
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby starry eyed » Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:36 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:The Biglaw rates seem to be approaching similar rates as during the mid-2000's. Those were the years when even non-14 schools like USC, BU and GW routinely approached (and crossed) the 40% mark. It's pretty interesting. It was only a couple years ago that Georgetown and Michigan had a hard time placing 40% of their classes into Biglaw jobs.

Yeah there's a bit of a myth out there that things were always peachy until the recession, but class of 2013 put more people into firms of 100+ than the classes of the late 90's and 2003-2004. For better or worse what we're seeing now is consistent with the way things have always been.


i thought fordham placed 55% in 2008?

eta: 45% not that big a difference from today




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