Latest employment data

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mt2165
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby mt2165 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:41 pm

shouldnt LST reports be out any day now?

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starry eyed
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby starry eyed » Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:42 pm

LOL seems like it

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mt2165
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby mt2165 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:10 pm

starry eyed wrote:LOL seems like it


not sure if you were responding to me, but like doesnt lst just like take the aba reports, turn them into colorful charts and graphs and break down the stats for us mathtards?

Re: "just" I dont mean to minimize what LST does-they're actually transcendent im just fiendin for them reports

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starry eyed
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby starry eyed » Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:21 pm

mt2165 wrote:
starry eyed wrote:LOL seems like it


not sure if you were responding to me, but like doesnt lst just like take the aba reports, turn them into colorful charts and graphs and break down the stats for us mathtards?

Re: "just" I dont mean to minimize what LST does-they're actually transcendent im just fiendin for them reports


better be careful with those words lol, but i think so

to be honest...this thread really undermines the importance of the numbers

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twenty 8
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby twenty 8 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:37 pm

mt2165 wrote:shouldnt LST reports be out any day now?

I just checked and nothing for yet for ’14. I did notice that ATL will release their top 50 rankings in May (drum roll not necessary). On the very top side of '13 they mirrored USN but then their rankings became puzzling. ATL moved Columbia from 8th to 4th (why was Columbia ever at 8?); NYU from 10th to 6th (again, why 10th?) and Penn which is kicking butt dropped from 5th to 8th but Mich which isn’t kickin’ butt went to 10thfrom 12th. Sort of like ATL lost their way.

Guess we’ll know soon how ATL will factor in the employment stats, SFJ and COL for ’14.

03152016
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby 03152016 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:39 pm

above the law rankings are such a laughingstock

i hope elie chokes on his nightly hoagie

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Rigo
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Rigo » Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:49 pm

Brut wrote:above the law rankings are such a laughingstock

Better than US News though, no?

03152016
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby 03152016 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:03 pm

for schools at the top, atl simply reaffirms the primacy of top schools and adds no value

for schools that aren't at the top, atl reaffirms the notion that there is merit in creating a national ranking of regional law schools, and in fact helps to legitimize that mistaken view by dressing it up in a purportedly more scientific method employing objective criteria

now instead of one alchemist we have two, with one saying the other is a quack

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby jenesaislaw » Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:46 am

mt2165 wrote:
starry eyed wrote:LOL seems like it


not sure if you were responding to me, but like doesnt lst just like take the aba reports, turn them into colorful charts and graphs and break down the stats for us mathtards?

Re: "just" I dont mean to minimize what LST does-they're actually transcendent im just fiendin for them reports


The barebones of LST comes from the ABA reports. So when the ABA releases the new data in a spreadsheet, we will put it in our database. We then turn this into charts and break down the stats. However, there are a lot more data on the site than what come from the ABA. There are also data from NALP Reports, which nobody else puts into a database. The most valuable data are probably the ABA data -- that's why we lobbied hard for the current required disclosures -- but we also played a critical role in changing disclosure norms above and beyond the bare minimum so that schools feel pressured to publish the NALP Reports.

Moneytrees
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Moneytrees » Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:56 pm

Brut wrote:for schools at the top, atl simply reaffirms the primacy of top schools and adds no value

for schools that aren't at the top, atl reaffirms the notion that there is merit in creating a national ranking of regional law schools, and in fact helps to legitimize that mistaken view by dressing it up in a purportedly more scientific method employing objective criteria

now instead of one alchemist we have two, with one saying the other is a quack


Yeah I don't think that the ATL ranking is "better". Using job outcomes to determine rankings is good in theory, but ATL places an emphasis on SCOTUS clerkships (which shouldn't be a factor in attending law school for the vast majority of students) and education cost (which makes no sense since some schools may cost a lot but provide generous scholarships).

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jbagelboy
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:14 pm

Moneytrees wrote:
Brut wrote:for schools at the top, atl simply reaffirms the primacy of top schools and adds no value

for schools that aren't at the top, atl reaffirms the notion that there is merit in creating a national ranking of regional law schools, and in fact helps to legitimize that mistaken view by dressing it up in a purportedly more scientific method employing objective criteria

now instead of one alchemist we have two, with one saying the other is a quack


Yeah I don't think that the ATL ranking is "better". Using job outcomes to determine rankings is good in theory, but ATL places an emphasis on SCOTUS clerkships (which shouldn't be a factor in attending law school for the vast majority of students) and education cost (which makes no sense since some schools may cost a lot but provide generous scholarships).


manipulating the SCOTUS clerkship data is really just ATLs backwards justification for aligning with US News and keeping certain schools in the top spots, since they don't use "inputs" -- LSAT and GPA -- which is the controlling metric for the rigidity of the current US News rankings.

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metroidbum
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby metroidbum » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:11 pm

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Last edited by metroidbum on Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Moneytrees
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Moneytrees » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:16 pm

True to an extent, but Yale, Harvard and Stanford would all easily be T14 schools even if we only consider BL+FC.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:23 pm

If the goal of rankings was to provide helpful information to prospective students, there would be 1 national ranking of the top fifteen law schools factoring in inputs and the likelihood of obtaining a Fed Clerkship or Biglaw gig. That's it.

Comparing regional schools, like the University of Washington with the University of Colorado, is completely mindless. If an applicant wishes to live in Honolulu, it literally makes zero difference that the University of Alabama is ranked in the 20's and the University of Hawaii is TTT.

And LOL at Above the Law and their rankings. Fucking hypocrites. Also how is trading inputs for web surveys and % Scotus Clerks making a better ranking system? The above poster nailed it when he or she said that the only reason for some of those criteria was to create a ranking system people would accept.

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metroidbum
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby metroidbum » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:41 pm

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Last edited by metroidbum on Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lawpractice
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby lawpractice » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:42 pm

HYS could be 100% big law if they wanted but that's not their goal. Too many academics,PI and and privileged JD advantaged jobs they get.

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rpupkin
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby rpupkin » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:54 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:If the goal of rankings was to provide helpful information to prospective students, there would be 1 national ranking of the top fifteen law schools factoring in inputs and the likelihood of obtaining a Fed Clerkship or Biglaw gig. That's it.

Interesting. I've had the opposite reaction after reading this thread and some of the advice it has spawned in the "Choosing a Law School" forum. I used to be critical of the USNWR rankings, and I still think they have limited value once you're in the realm of regional schools, but USNWR actually does a pretty good job of ranking the top 14.

If you just go by Big Law + FC, you might think, and many on TLS are apparently beginning to think, that CLS and Cornell are basically peers. But that's stupid. CLS gives you more national mobility and more options outside of big law for those who are interested. And, intentionally or not, USNWR's goofy metrics capture this.

JFO1833
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby JFO1833 » Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:33 pm

(See below where this was copied and is much more readable).
Last edited by JFO1833 on Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

Indifference
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Indifference » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:05 am

Maybe a public, locked google doc would work better?

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby jenesaislaw » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:37 am

Data will be up on LST tomorrow morning.

Indifference
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Indifference » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:39 am

jenesaislaw wrote:Data will be up on LST tomorrow morning.


Definitely beats the google doc :)
Thanks for all you do.

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storpappa
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby storpappa » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:53 am

jenesaislaw wrote:Data will be up on LST tomorrow morning.


I send you virtual hugs and kisses

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Robb
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Robb » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:55 am

Code brackets :)
JFO1833 wrote:Now we have all the stats here is some sorted data. Each percentage is followed by the change from the prior year. Note that in 2014 this is 10 month period.

First column is Big Law (100 + attorneys) + Federal Clerkships over the number of graduates.
Second column is full time, bar required, long term jobs, excluding solo practitioners, over the number of graduates.
Third column is full time, bar required, long term jobs, excluding solo practitioners and law school funded, over the number of graduates.

In Excel this all lined up nicely, but TLS uses a font of variable width so the columns won't line up exactly.

Don't make any decisions based on this data, I might have messed it up. Verify, verify, verify (and let me know of any errors you find)!

Code: Select all

BL+FC                                      FTBR                                       FTBR-LSF                                   
Columbia                78.8% ( 00.8%) --- Cornell                 95.8% ( 07.2%) --- Penn                    91.4% ( 05.7%)
Penn                    78.1% ( 08.9%) --- Penn                    94.6% ( 03.9%) --- Cornell                 90.1% ( 09.7%)
Chicago                 75.7% ( 03.2%) --- UVA                     94.3% (-01.3%) --- Duke                    87.9% ( 02.8%)
Stanford                74.9% (-03.0%) --- Columbia                93.8% (-01.2%) --- Columbia                87.2% (-01.2%)
Cornell                 74.3% ( 06.0%) --- NYU                     93.5% (-00.1%) --- Chicago                 86.7% ( 00.6%)
NYU                     71.4% ( 04.4%) --- Berkeley                92.0% ( 05.3%) --- NYU                     86.0% ( 00.2%)
Harvard                 71.2% (-00.8%) --- Chicago                 91.9% (-00.2%) --- Stanford                85.6% ( 00.5%)
Duke                    70.2% ( 10.1%) --- Stanford                90.9% ( 03.3%) --- Harvard                 85.5% ( 00.0%)
UVA                     67.6% ( 04.7%) --- Michigan                90.3% ( 08.3%) --- Berkeley                85.0% ( 06.6%)
Northwestern            64.9% ( 01.6%) --- Duke                    90.2% ( 04.3%) --- UVA                     84.8% ( 05.1%)
Berkeley                62.4% ( 06.6%) --- Harvard                 89.9% ( 02.6%) --- Michigan                81.8% ( 00.6%)
Yale                    60.4% (-05.1%) --- Vanderbilt              84.5% (-01.4%) --- Kentucky                79.4% ( 08.7%)
Michigan                53.8% (-03.3%) --- Emory                   82.5% (-01.1%) --- New Mexico              78.4% ( 05.6%)
Georgetown              48.4% ( 01.9%) --- Northwestern            81.1% ( 01.9%) --- Northwestern            78.0% ( 00.5%)
Texas                   46.4% ( 04.1%) --- UCLA                    80.4% ( 04.8%) --- Iowa                    77.3% ( 01.5%)
Vanderbilt              41.2% (-03.9%) --- Georgetown              79.7% (-04.0%) --- Boston College          74.4% ( 10.3%)
USC                     41.0% ( 07.3%) --- Kentucky                79.4% ( 08.7%) --- Vanderbilt              73.2% (-04.5%)
UCLA                    39.6% ( 00.1%) --- USC                     79.3% ( 15.1%) --- Minnesota               73.0% ( 05.8%)
Notre Dame              37.4% ( 03.7%) --- Notre Dame              78.8% ( 07.6%) --- WUSTL                   72.9% ( 07.2%)
Fordham                 37.0% ( 00.4%) --- George Washington       78.8% ( 01.3%) --- Ohio State              71.9% ( 13.7%)
Boston College          36.6% ( 02.6%) --- New Mexico              78.4% ( 05.6%) --- Seton Hall              71.6% ( 02.6%)
Boston University       36.2% ( 09.6%) --- WUSTL                   78.3% ( 11.3%) --- Texas                   71.2% (-02.8%)
George Washington       32.4% (-00.5%) --- Texas                   77.8% ( 00.5%) --- UCLA                    71.1% ( 04.9%)
WUSTL                   31.4% (-00.9%) --- Davis                   77.5% ( 07.6%) --- Georgia                 70.6% ( 02.3%)
Emory                   29.1% ( 03.4%) --- Iowa                    77.3% ( 01.0%) --- Alabama                 69.6% (-00.9%)
Illinois                28.6% ( 00.5%) --- BYU                     75.4% ( 12.1%) --- Yale                    69.6% (-04.8%)
Irvine                  28.0% (-05.4%) --- Minnesota               75.3% ( 06.3%) --- Georgetown              69.5% (-02.9%)
UNC                     25.5% ( 02.5%) --- Boston College          75.1% ( 11.1%) --- Georgia State           68.7% ( 04.6%)
Howard                  23.9% ( 10.9%) --- Ohio State              73.3% ( 14.2%) --- Louisiana State         68.4% ( 03.3%)
SMU                     23.2% (-01.1%) --- Irvine                  73.1% ( 08.8%) --- UNC                     68.3% ( 00.2%)
Temple                  21.7% ( 07.2%) --- Boston University       72.8% ( 05.9%) --- Florida                 68.3% ( 02.7%)
William and Mary        20.9% (-04.4%) --- Yale                    72.6% (-06.2%) --- Boston University       67.9% ( 07.1%)
Washington and Lee      20.5% ( 00.9%) --- Illinois                72.4% ( 00.1%) --- Mercer                  67.8% ( 02.9%)
Minnesota               20.1% ( 02.9%) --- William and Mary        72.1% (-03.5%) --- Fordham                 67.8% ( 04.3%)
Georgia                 19.6% (-00.1%) --- Seton Hall              71.6% ( 02.6%) --- Arizona-State           67.7% ( 07.4%)
Ohio State              19.5% (-01.8%) --- Arizona                 71.5% ( 14.4%) --- BYU                     67.4% ( 04.1%)
Indiana (Bloomington)   18.9% ( 02.5%) --- Georgia                 70.6% ( 02.3%) --- SMU                     66.9% (-02.7%)
BYU                     18.8% ( 07.3%) --- Alabama                 70.2% (-00.3%) --- Baylor                  66.9% (-00.1%)
Iowa                    18.8% (-01.8%) --- Colorado                69.7% ( 00.4%) --- Wake Forest             66.8% ( 10.2%)
Houston                 18.0% (-01.6%) --- UNC                     69.1% (-00.2%) --- Miami                   66.7% ( 07.2%)
West Virginia           17.8% ( 07.1%) --- Arizona-State           68.7% ( 08.4%) --- Colorado                66.7% ( 00.2%)
Davis                   17.8% ( 01.4%) --- Georgia State           68.7% ( 04.6%) --- Nebraska                66.7% ( 02.2%)
Tulane                  17.6% ( 01.7%) --- Wake Forest             68.4% ( 11.8%) --- South Dakota            66.7% ( 06.1%)
Wake Forest             17.6% ( 01.9%) --- Louisiana State         68.4% ( 03.3%) --- Notre Dame              66.5% (-03.6%)
Alabama                 17.5% (-04.7%) --- Florida                 68.3% ( 02.7%) --- Oklahoma                66.4% ( 02.3%)
Florida                 16.8% ( 01.9%) --- Mercer                  67.8% ( 02.9%) --- Kansas                  66.4% ( 06.3%)
Cincinnati              16.8% ( 04.0%) --- Fordham                 67.8% ( 04.3%) --- Davis                   66.3% ( 01.5%)
Kentucky                16.7% (-00.6%) --- Baylor                  67.6% ( 00.0%) --- Montana                 66.3% (-02.9%)
Vilanova                16.4% ( 01.4%) --- Miami                   67.5% ( 07.0%) --- Florida State           66.0% (-02.3%)
Wisconsin               16.1% ( 04.2%) --- SMU                     66.9% (-02.7%) --- George Washington       65.4% ( 02.6%)
Washington              16.0% ( 00.7%) --- Nebraska                66.7% ( 02.2%) --- Tulsa                   65.3% ( 09.1%)
Georgia State           15.7% ( 06.9%) --- South Dakota            66.7% ( 06.1%) --- Arizona                 65.3% ( 08.1%)
Loyola Marymount        15.4% ( 02.6%) --- Oklahoma                66.4% ( 02.3%) --- Vilanova                65.0% ( 11.7%)
Rutgers-Newark          15.0% ( 04.2%) --- Kansas                  66.4% ( 06.3%) --- USC                     65.0% ( 05.1%)
Colorado                14.5% ( 02.6%) --- Tulsa                   66.3% ( 08.3%) --- South Carolina          64.9% (-02.4%)
Hastings                14.4% (-00.6%) --- Montana                 66.3% (-02.9%) --- Penn State              64.8% ( 20.3%)
Wayne State             14.2% ( 03.9%) --- Florida State           66.0% (-02.7%) --- Missouri                64.4% ( 07.2%)
Arizona-State           14.1% ( 03.4%) --- UNLV                    65.5% ( 03.3%) --- Illinois                64.3% ( 00.7%)
Missouri                14.1% ( 04.2%) --- Penn State              65.3% ( 20.8%) --- Idaho                   64.2% ( 09.5%)
St. Louis               13.5% ( 02.9%) --- Vilanova                65.0% ( 11.7%) --- UNLV                    64.0% ( 01.9%)
Richmond                13.4% ( 06.4%) --- South Carolina          64.9% (-02.9%) --- Washington and Lee      63.8% ( 07.1%)
Marquette               13.1% ( 06.3%) --- Washington and Lee      64.6% ( 07.9%) --- Wisconsin               63.6% ( 06.8%)
Yeshiva (Cardozo)       13.0% (-01.6%) --- Missouri                64.4% ( 07.2%) --- Indiana (Bloomington)   63.5% ( 01.1%)
Brooklyn                12.8% (-01.2%) --- Indiana (Bloomington)   64.4% ( 01.6%) --- Louisville              63.4% ( 01.7%)
Tennessee               12.6% (-00.6%) --- Idaho                   64.2% ( 09.5%) --- Washburn                63.4% ( 03.8%)
Montana                 12.5% ( 01.4%) --- Rutgers-Newark          63.9% ( 08.0%) --- William and Mary        63.3% ( 07.5%)
American                12.4% ( 00.2%) --- Wisconsin               63.6% ( 06.4%) --- Drake                   63.1% ( 08.7%)
Duquesne                12.4% ( 03.1%) --- Louisville              63.4% ( 01.7%) --- Emory                   63.1% ( 00.7%)
Connecticut             12.3% ( 01.6%) --- Washburn                63.4% ( 03.8%) --- New Hampshire           62.7% (-04.6%)
San Diego               12.0% ( 02.2%) --- Drake                   63.1% ( 08.7%) --- Utah                    62.6% ( 01.2%)
Case Western            11.9% ( 00.3%) --- Houston                 62.9% (-00.3%) --- Irvine                  62.4% (-01.9%)
Kansas                  11.8% ( 01.9%) --- New Hampshire           62.7% (-04.6%) --- Albany                  61.8% ( 02.6%)
Loyola Chicago          11.5% (-02.5%) --- Utah                    62.6% ( 01.2%) --- Houston                 61.7% (-00.7%)
George Mason            11.4% (-00.4%) --- Southern Illinois       61.9% (-08.6%) --- Rutgers-Newark          61.7% ( 07.6%)
Pittsburgh              11.3% (-00.7%) --- Albany                  61.8% ( 01.6%) --- Belmont                 61.3% (N/A)
Baylor                  11.0% ( 01.4%) --- Belmont                 61.3% (N/A)    --- St. Louis               61.0% ( 10.6%)
Syracuse                10.9% ( 02.6%) --- Tulane                  61.3% ( 09.3%) --- Washington              61.0% (-03.5%)
Penn State              10.8% ( 04.8%) --- St. Louis               61.0% ( 10.6%) --- Southern Illinois       61.0% (-09.6%)
Oklahoma                10.5% ( 05.1%) --- Washington              61.0% (-03.5%) --- St. John's              60.7% ( 05.0%)
South Carolina          10.4% (-01.1%) --- St. John's              60.7% ( 05.0%) --- Tulane                  60.5% ( 08.5%)
St. John's              10.1% ( 00.7%) --- Temple                  60.5% ( 01.5%) --- Rutgers-Camden          60.5% (-01.8%)
Miami                   10.0% (-00.6%) --- Rutgers-Camden          60.5% (-02.2%) --- Drexel                  60.3% ( 12.5%)
Santa Clara             10.0% (-04.3%) --- Drexel                  60.3% ( 12.5%) --- Creighton               60.2% ( 06.6%)
Louisiana State         09.6% (-01.4%) --- Creighton               60.2% ( 06.6%) --- Missouri KC             60.1% ( 15.0%)
Maryland                09.5% (-04.6%) --- Missouri KC             60.1% ( 15.0%) --- Temple                  60.1% ( 01.4%)
Cleveland State         09.3% ( 01.7%) --- Cincinnati              60.0% ( 07.0%) --- Cincinnati              60.0% ( 07.0%)
Pepperdine              09.1% (-03.1%) --- Loyola Marymount        59.8% ( 09.7%) --- Nova Southeastern       59.6% ( 01.1%)
Louisville              08.9% ( 00.3%) --- Nova Southeastern       59.6% ( 01.1%) --- SUNY-Buffalo            59.2% (-01.4%)
Rutgers-Camden          08.4% (-00.2%) --- Indiana (McKinney)      59.5% ( 11.6%) --- Florida International   58.4% ( 04.2%)
SUNY-Buffalo            08.4% ( 02.8%) --- SUNY-Buffalo            59.2% (-01.4%) --- Indiana (McKinney)      58.4% ( 11.0%)
Arizona                 08.3% (-02.6%) --- Northern Illinois       58.6% ( 08.2%) --- Texas Tech              58.2% ( 03.2%)
Illinois-Tech (Kent)    08.2% (-02.1%) --- Florida International   58.4% ( 03.0%) --- Oklahoma City           58.0% ( 01.6%)
New Hampshire           07.9% (-03.3%) --- Texas Tech              58.2% ( 03.2%) --- Campbell                57.8% ( 05.2%)
Indiana (McKinney)      07.9% ( 00.5%) --- Oklahoma City           58.0% ( 01.6%) --- Loyola Marymount        57.6% ( 08.2%)
Northeastern            07.9% (-00.4%) --- Campbell                57.8% ( 05.2%) --- Northern Illinois       57.6% ( 07.1%)
Drexel                  07.8% (-03.1%) --- Maryland                57.4% ( 05.5%) --- Willamette              57.4% ( 02.9%)
Arkansas-Fayetteville   07.8% (-01.3%) --- Willamette              57.4% ( 02.9%) --- West Virginia           57.4% ( 00.4%)
Suffolk                 07.7% ( 01.0%) --- West Virginia           57.4% ( 00.4%) --- Syracuse                57.3% ( 02.9%)
DePaul                  07.7% ( 01.0%) --- Syracuse                57.3% ( 02.9%) --- Maryland                57.1% ( 09.3%)
Nebraska                07.7% ( 02.9%) --- Hofstra                 57.1% ( 09.8%) --- North Dakota            56.6% (-02.9%)
Texas Tech              07.5% (-00.1%) --- North Dakota            56.6% (-02.9%) --- Richmond                56.4% ( 00.0%)
Utah                    07.3% ( 01.8%) --- Richmond                56.4% ( 00.0%) --- Hofstra                 56.2% ( 08.8%)
Mississippi             07.3% ( 00.9%) --- Pace                    56.2% ( 15.4%) --- Duquesne                55.9% ( 04.7%)
Michigan State          07.3% ( 02.3%) --- Yeshiva (Cardozo)       56.1% ( 01.9%) --- Yeshiva (Cardozo)       55.9% ( 01.6%)
Florida State           07.1% (-03.0%) --- Duquesne                55.9% ( 04.7%) --- South Texas             55.4% (-05.8%)
Mercer                  07.0% (-01.3%) --- George Mason            55.4% ( 06.4%) --- Touro                   55.1% ( 03.4%)
Memphis                 06.9% (-02.0%) --- South Texas             55.4% (-05.8%) --- Tennessee               55.0% (-06.7%)
Denver                  06.9% (-01.8%) --- Denver                  55.2% ( 00.9%) --- John Marshall (Chicago) 54.7% ( 05.8%)
Creighton               06.8% ( 02.0%) --- John Marshall (Chicago) 55.1% ( 06.3%) --- Loyola Chicago          54.6% ( 06.3%)
New York Law            06.7% (-00.2%) --- Touro                   55.1% ( 03.4%) --- Denver                  54.5% ( 00.6%)
Seton Hall              06.7% (-03.4%) --- Tennessee               55.0% (-06.7%) --- Stetson                 54.4% (-06.4%)
UNLV                    06.5% ( 01.9%) --- Loyola Chicago          55.0% ( 06.7%) --- Hawaii                  54.4% ( 05.3%)
Northern Kentucky       06.4% ( 02.0%) --- Case Western            54.8% (-03.9%) --- Case Western            54.2% (-04.5%)
St. Thomas (MN)         06.3% ( 01.2%) --- American                54.6% ( 10.0%) --- Pace                    53.9% ( 15.1%)
Catholic (Columbus)     06.1% (-04.8%) --- Stetson                 54.4% (-06.4%) --- William Mitchell        53.8% (-03.1%)
Nova Southeastern       06.1% ( 00.2%) --- Hawaii                  54.4% ( 03.4%) --- Samford                 53.7% (-04.1%)
Samford                 05.9% ( 00.7%) --- Howard                  54.0% ( 04.7%) --- Arkansas-Little Rock    53.6% ( 08.8%)
Wyoming                 05.6% ( 00.4%) --- William Mitchell        53.8% (-03.1%) --- DePaul                  53.5% ( 08.4%)
San Francisco           05.6% ( 00.6%) --- Samford                 53.7% (-04.1%) --- Howard                  53.1% ( 04.5%)
Lewis & Clark           05.6% ( 03.2%) --- Arkansas-Little Rock    53.6% ( 08.8%) --- Gonzaga                 53.1% (-07.2%)
Stetson                 05.5% ( 00.9%) --- DePaul                  53.5% ( 08.1%) --- Arkansas-Fayetteville   52.7% (-13.2%)
Mississippi College     05.1% ( 00.3%) --- Gonzaga                 53.1% (-07.2%) --- Memphis                 52.7% (-07.8%)
South Texas             05.1% ( 00.8%) --- Arkansas-Fayetteville   52.7% (-13.2%) --- Brooklyn                52.4% (-04.1%)
Hofstra                 05.0% (-00.6%) --- Memphis                 52.7% (-07.8%) --- Widener-Harrisburg      52.2% ( 00.1%)
Loyola New Orleans      05.0% (-01.2%) --- Brooklyn                52.4% (-04.1%) --- Connecticut             51.9% ( 10.7%)
John Marshall (Chicago) 05.0% ( 00.8%) --- Widener-Harrisburg      52.2% ( 00.1%) --- Lewis & Clark           51.7% ( 05.7%)
Missouri KC             04.9% (-00.3%) --- Connecticut             51.9% ( 10.7%) --- George Mason            51.6% ( 04.2%)
Toledo                  04.9% (-01.9%) --- Lewis & Clark           51.7% (-00.3%) --- Duncan                  51.1% (N/A)
William Mitchell        04.9% ( 01.2%) --- Wayne State             51.5% ( 02.6%) --- Northeastern            50.9% ( 06.0%)
Detroit Mercy           04.4% (-02.7%) --- Northeastern            51.4% ( 06.0%) --- Mississippi             50.8% (-07.6%)
Maine                   04.2% (-01.0%) --- Duncan                  51.1% (N/A)    --- Pittsburgh              50.7% (-03.0%)
Belmont                 04.2% (N/A)    --- Mississippi             50.8% (-07.6%) --- Wayne State             50.3% ( 01.4%)
Southwestern            04.2% (-00.8%) --- Pittsburgh              50.7% (-04.3%) --- Baltimore               50.0% ( 02.4%)
Pace                    04.1% ( 00.1%) --- Hastings                50.5% ( 08.9%) --- Hastings                50.0% ( 09.0%)
California Western      04.1% ( 03.0%) --- Baltimore               50.0% ( 02.4%) --- St. Mary's              50.0% (-02.1%)
Regent                  04.1% (-00.2%) --- St. Mary's              50.0% (-02.4%) --- Illinois-Tech (Kent)    49.7% (-04.6%)
Seattle                 04.1% (-02.7%) --- Illinois-Tech (Kent)    49.7% (-04.6%) --- Wyoming                 49.3% (-15.2%)
North Dakota            03.9% (-00.1%) --- Wyoming                 49.3% (-15.2%) --- Dayton                  49.3% (-08.2%)
Oregon                  03.8% (-02.2%) --- Dayton                  49.3% (-08.2%) --- Charleston              49.3% (-02.3%)
McGeroge                03.7% ( 01.2%) --- Charleston              49.3% (-02.3%) --- Marquette               49.1% (-02.4%)
Albany                  03.4% (-03.2%) --- Loyola New Orleans      49.1% ( 00.3%) --- Vermont                 48.5% (-06.0%)
Golden Gate             03.3% ( 01.5%) --- Marquette               49.1% (-02.4%) --- CUNY                    48.0% (-00.6%)
Campbell                03.2% ( 01.0%) --- Vermont                 48.5% (-06.0%) --- Loyola New Orleans      47.7% (-01.1%)
Florida International   03.2% (-02.2%) --- CUNY                    48.0% (-00.6%) --- St. Thomas (MN)         47.6% ( 05.8%)
Ohio Northern           03.2% (-01.0%) --- St. Thomas (MN)         47.6% ( 05.8%) --- Mississippi College     47.4% (-04.4%)
Appalachian             03.2% ( 00.9%) --- Mississippi College     47.4% (-04.4%) --- Chapman                 47.1% ( 11.6%)
Vermont                 03.1% ( 01.1%) --- Chapman                 47.1% ( 11.6%) --- Akron                   46.8% ( 00.4%)
Tulsa                   03.1% ( 01.3%) --- Cleveland State         47.0% ( 02.4%) --- Pepperdine              46.5% (-05.2%)
Charleston              03.0% ( 02.1%) --- Akron                   46.8% ( 00.4%) --- San Diego               46.4% (-05.4%)
Chapman                 02.9% (-03.6%) --- San Diego               46.8% (-05.1%) --- Cleveland State         46.4% ( 01.7%)
Elon                    02.9% ( 01.2%) --- Pepperdine              46.5% (-05.2%) --- Maine                   46.3% ( 07.8%)
Dayton                  02.9% ( 01.5%) --- Maine                   46.3% ( 07.8%) --- Texas A&M               46.1% ( 08.1%)
New Mexico              02.7% ( 00.9%) --- Suffolk                 46.2% ( 10.5%) --- Suffolk                 46.0% ( 10.3%)
Washburn                02.7% (-00.6%) --- Texas A&M               46.1% ( 08.1%) --- Catholic (Columbus)     45.8% (-00.8%)
Oklahoma City           02.5% ( 00.7%) --- Catholic (Columbus)     45.8% (-00.8%) --- Ohio Northern           45.7% (-13.6%)
South Dakota            02.5% ( 01.1%) --- Ohio Northern           45.7% (-13.6%) --- Hamline                 45.6% ( 03.5%)
UMass-Dartmouth         02.5% ( 02.5%) --- Oregon                  45.7% (-01.4%) --- California Western      45.2% ( 13.9%)
Akron                   02.4% (-00.6%) --- Hamline                 45.6% ( 03.5%) --- Oregon                  45.1% (-01.9%)
New England Law         02.3% ( 00.0%) --- California Western      45.2% ( 13.9%) --- Regent                  45.1% (-10.0%)
Valparaiso              02.3% (-00.7%) --- Seattle                 45.1% ( 03.6%) --- American                45.0% ( 07.7%)
St. Thomas (FL)         02.3% ( 00.6%) --- Regent                  45.1% (-10.0%) --- Seattle                 44.7% ( 03.9%)
St. Mary's              02.3% ( 00.9%) --- Valparaiso              44.8% ( 06.4%) --- Valparaiso              44.2% ( 06.4%)
Widener-DE              02.1% (-02.2%) --- Michigan State          44.7% ( 07.8%) --- Michigan State          44.1% ( 07.2%)
North Carolina Central  02.1% ( 01.5%) --- Widener-DE              44.1% (-02.2%) --- Widener-DE              44.1% (-02.2%)
Whittier                02.1% ( 00.6%) --- St. Thomas (FL)         44.0% ( 00.1%) --- St. Thomas (FL)         44.0% ( 00.1%)
Western New England     02.0% ( 01.3%) --- Roger Williams          43.9% ( 03.4%) --- Roger Williams          43.9% ( 03.4%)
Northern Illinois       02.0% (-03.1%) --- New York Law            42.9% (-01.1%) --- New York Law            42.9% (-01.1%)
CUNY                    02.0% ( 01.3%) --- McGeroge                42.8% ( 06.6%) --- Northern Kentucky       42.3% ( 04.8%)
Western State           02.0% ( 01.2%) --- Quinnipiac              42.5% ( 08.0%) --- McGeroge                42.2% ( 06.4%)
Puerto Rico             02.0% ( 00.5%) --- Northern Kentucky       42.3% ( 04.8%) --- Quinnipiac              41.6% ( 07.1%)
Southern Illinois       01.9% (-02.0%) --- Liberty                 42.1% ( 13.1%) --- Liberty                 40.8% ( 12.8%)
Capital                 01.9% (-02.4%) --- Barry                   39.7% ( 06.9%) --- Barry                   39.7% ( 06.9%)
Gonzaga                 01.9% ( 00.0%) --- Arizona Summit          38.7% (-01.9%) --- LaVerne                 38.6% ( 09.6%)
Southern University     01.8% ( 01.3%) --- LaVerne                 38.6% ( 09.6%) --- New England Law         38.5% ( 02.2%)
Quinnipiac              01.8% (-00.3%) --- New England Law         38.5% ( 01.6%) --- Elon                    37.5% ( 05.5%)
Widener-Harrisburg      01.8% (-01.5%) --- Elon                    37.5% ( 05.5%) --- Toledo                  37.4% (-10.9%)
Florida A&M             01.7% ( 01.7%) --- Toledo                  37.4% (-10.9%) --- Faulkner                37.3% (-11.2%)
Arkansas-Little Rock    01.6% ( 00.2%) --- Faulkner                37.3% (-11.2%) --- North Carolina Central  37.3% ( 22.5%)
Baltimore               01.6% (-03.6%) --- North Carolina Central  37.3% ( 22.5%) --- Atlanta's John Marshall 36.8% ( 04.4%)
Hamline                 01.5% (-00.6%) --- Atlanta's John Marshall 36.8% ( 04.4%) --- Arizona Summit          36.8% (-02.6%)
Barry                   01.4% (-00.1%) --- Southwestern            35.8% (-02.6%) --- Western New England     35.7% ( 02.6%)
Thomas Jefferson        01.4% ( 00.3%) --- Western New England     35.7% ( 02.6%) --- Southwestern            35.5% (-02.9%)
Liberty                 01.3% (-00.8%) --- Ave Maria               35.5% ( 05.3%) --- Santa Clara             35.2% (-07.0%)
Texas A&M               01.3% ( 00.7%) --- Santa Clara             35.2% (-07.0%) --- Capital                 35.0% (-03.4%)
Arizona Summit          01.2% ( 00.5%) --- Capital                 35.0% (-03.4%) --- Ave Maria               34.5% ( 04.4%)
Atlanta's John Marshall 01.1% ( 00.6%) --- Detroit Mercy           34.4% ( 02.7%) --- Detroit Mercy           34.4% ( 02.7%)
District of Columbia    01.0% (-00.3%) --- Texas Southern          33.6% (-00.4%) --- Texas Southern          33.6% (-00.4%)
WMU-Cooley              00.9% ( 00.0%) --- Florida Costal          33.5% ( 03.9%) --- Florida Costal          33.3% ( 03.7%)
Florida Costal          00.8% ( 00.1%) --- Appalachian             32.6% (-09.4%) --- Appalachian             32.6% (-09.4%)
Idaho                   00.8% (-00.9%) --- San Francisco           32.0% (-02.0%) --- San Francisco           32.0% (-01.5%)
Drake                   00.8% (-02.1%) --- Florida A&M             29.3% (-05.5%) --- Florida A&M             29.3% (-05.5%)
Texas Southern          00.7% ( 00.7%) --- Charlotte               28.8% (-01.5%) --- Charlotte               28.8% ( 00.8%)
Roger Williams          00.6% (-02.9%) --- Western State           28.0% (-05.3%) --- Western State           28.0% (-05.3%)
Charlotte               00.5% (-00.9%) --- Southern University     27.3% ( 04.5%) --- Southern University     27.3% ( 04.5%)
Inter-American          00.5% (-01.3%) --- Thomas Jefferson        26.3% ( 00.3%) --- Thomas Jefferson        26.3% ( 00.3%)
Ave Maria               00.0% (-03.8%) --- District of Columbia    26.2% ( 02.5%) --- WMU-Cooley              25.9% ( 03.0%)
Duncan                  00.0% (N/A)    --- WMU-Cooley              25.9% ( 03.0%) --- Whittier                25.8% (-00.9%)
Faulkner                00.0% (-02.0%) --- Whittier                25.8% (-00.9%) --- District of Columbia    24.3% ( 01.8%)
Hawaii                  00.0% ( 00.0%) --- Golden Gate             25.1% ( 02.8%) --- Golden Gate             24.0% ( 02.1%)
LaVerne                 00.0% ( 00.0%) --- UMass-Dartmouth         22.2% (-01.1%) --- UMass-Dartmouth         22.2% ( 01.8%)
Pontifical Catholic     00.0% ( 00.0%) --- Puerto Rico             15.4% (-02.9%) --- Puerto Rico             15.4% (-02.9%)
Touro                   00.0% ( 00.0%) --- Inter-American          09.3% (-12.7%) --- Inter-American          09.3% (-12.7%)
Willamette              00.0% (-01.6%) --- Pontifical Catholic     01.4% (-02.8%) --- Pontifical Catholic     01.4% (-02.8%)

Moneytrees
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:41 pm

Re: Latest employment data

Postby Moneytrees » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:11 am

Question: why do we completely disregard solo practitioners?

Traynor Brah
Posts: 718
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:23 pm

Re: Latest employment data

Postby Traynor Brah » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:18 am

Moneytrees wrote:Question: why do we completely disregard solo practitioners?

1) it's not a great way to break into the profession (high risk, lack of capital, lack of consistent income, lots of debt, no attorney skills, malpractice risk, lack of business/marketing savvy, etc)
2) it's something a lot of grads who couldn't find jobs do
3) any moron can do it

I think having a solo practice could be a lot of fun and maybe at some point in my life I would seriously consider it, but it's just not a good outcome for a fresh graduate under the vast majority of circumstances.




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