Latest employment data

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Cobretti
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Cobretti » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:33 am

OneLisfun wrote:More strawmen. Didn't say categorically exclude the major market, didn't say Cleveland big law, don't have ties there, said don't put bids into the one with the 30% that's far above what you have, there are other firms in the major market that aren't that firm. Why do you constantly believe everything I write is something I didn't write. I literally cannot grasp how you come up with this stuff.

In sum, since I'm tired of people making up things I didn't say, I said Tiago Splitter was wrong, which he was, when he said everyone in the class should apply to the 30% SA, which I thought he meant was a specific law firm. If that's not what that meant, that is the entire conversation right there, I was wrong about the one thing, and everything else in this ridiculous conversation has stemmed from that.

You did misinterpret that but that is just one of many, many misstatements by you. Like cookiejar pointed out, the core of this is that you said:
Also, just to make clear, the typical advice at lower T14s is not to target NYC with lower grades. NYC is considered harder to get than secondary markets that you have ties to. At a lower T14, they will advise students with lower grades that the best move is to target secondary markets that they have ties to, as those are easier to get than NYC. That is the classic advice from career services

This advice is so bad its dangerous for 1Ls to follow, and that is why everyone has jumped on you. You have gradually modified your argument to say apparently people just shouldn't bid the most elite NY firms with the biggest SA classes from below median, which obviously people here wouldn't argue; but that's different from your original point.

BigZuck
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby BigZuck » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:36 am

BigZuck wrote:It's just a dumpster fire.

I'm not saying that I have the best reading comprehension skills in the world but this is seriously hard for me to follow

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cookiejar1
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby cookiejar1 » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:42 am

OneLisfun wrote:1) I'm aware published grade cut-offs are not a great proxy of exactly what they're looking for, that is obvious to me and I've never said otherwise. However, they generally go in the higher than what they're looking for direction, not lower. If a firm posts they want a 2.9 and you are from that state and have a 3.0, apply to that firm immediately, (almost) no NY law firms with a history of 3.4 will be hiring you. (In sum, yes, don't trust the ones that are really high, that's why if you noticed I spoke about not applying to firms that have past medians .3 above yours. Again show me where I said otherwise. You're wrong, not me.

2) No, again, you make more incorrect assumptions and are wrong. Didn't assume robust classes, wrong on that as well. Please do not post specific firms, I will not be posting any, but I've seen firms that are over 100 people that have six figure salaries in these markets asking for below 3.0 grades, something NY firms do not do. You want to call that midlaw? That's great, read more carefully and you'll see I mention throughout that we call 100+ big law on here, and that's the format I was continuing.
Checking to see how many people are employed by anyone is worthless, again, I'm saying these firms for people from there (i.e. not a single person I know) but if you are great, you are now competitive for big law with a 2.8. Again, more straw men to argue with.

3) Another wrong thing you've said. I say secondary markets as a general statement and you wrongly assume I mean all secondary markets, even after conversing with others for a while saying I don't know about other secondary markets, but obscure markets for all, either way I'm not sure. I think there are some secondary markets that will be getting and others that aren't. I guess in a way you're just a combo of arguing with a straw man and wrong here. Think and read, don't just come up with an idea in your head that you have an easy argument against and argue with it, this is a consistent problem for you.

4) Yes our big law plus fed clerks data includes firms of 100+, I'm talking about firms of 100+, I don't quite see what your point is on this one. I still don't see anywhere where I'm wrong. I'll keep looking. As a side note, no I didn't say if you have a 3.4 with median from lower T14 you should bid the tertiary market, if you look at any of the specific examples I posted, you'll see I'm talking about people who have 2.9s and the cutoff is a 2.8 How is that median?

5) I didn't backtrack, again you are wrong. If you think I backtracked explain to me the backtracking, it didn't happen.

6) And as far as that last thing, that is the typical advice, I did not make that up. Not target doesn't mean not include. Maybe we have different definitions of target.


Lol, my work here is done.

OneLisfun
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby OneLisfun » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:46 am

Cobretti wrote:
OneLisfun wrote:More strawmen. Didn't say categorically exclude the major market, didn't say Cleveland big law, don't have ties there, said don't put bids into the one with the 30% that's far above what you have, there are other firms in the major market that aren't that firm. Why do you constantly believe everything I write is something I didn't write. I literally cannot grasp how you come up with this stuff.

In sum, since I'm tired of people making up things I didn't say, I said Tiago Splitter was wrong, which he was, when he said everyone in the class should apply to the 30% SA, which I thought he meant was a specific law firm. If that's not what that meant, that is the entire conversation right there, I was wrong about the one thing, and everything else in this ridiculous conversation has stemmed from that.

You did misinterpret that but that is just one of many, many misstatements by you. Like cookiejar pointed out, the core of this is that you said:
Also, just to make clear, the typical advice at lower T14s is not to target NYC with lower grades. NYC is considered harder to get than secondary markets that you have ties to. At a lower T14, they will advise students with lower grades that the best move is to target secondary markets that they have ties to, as those are easier to get than NYC. That is the classic advice from career services

This advice is so bad its dangerous for 1Ls to follow, and that is why everyone has jumped on you. You have gradually modified your argument to say apparently people just shouldn't bid the most elite NY firms with the biggest SA classes from below median, which obviously people here wouldn't argue; but that's different from your original point.



Well that was just a fact. If you don't agree with it, I'm not wrong, the typical advice just is. Lots of people say that and believe it. If you go to a lower T14, you'll see people talking about oh what if I pretend I have a tie here or there etc (people don't actually end up doing it though). It's just kind of the typical thing. If you have abominable grades, then you won't be getting NY big law and you could try for some weird stuff. Also, there's data available that says that students who target both NYC and their secondary market on average do better than those who just target NYC at OCI. That's a fact, and I'm right and you are wrong there, I don't care if you find a thousand TLSers to chime in and say no. I can't share that data with you though.

For the final time, I did not say ALL secondary markets are easier to get, the typical advice is secondary markets. Are there some where it could be harder? I believe I pretty quickly said yes that's the case.

And lastly, again, not targeting does not mean not bidding. I don't disagree with that, maybe what I wrote was open to interpretation, but no, I've never believed for a second someone who goes to a T14 should bid all LA or whatever and do no NYC. There are a lot of secondary markets, they're not all whichever individual one you or the cookie monster guy want to bring up to say why some secondary markets are harder to get than others.

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chuckbass
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby chuckbass » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:47 am

OneLisfun and bluelotus walk into a bar...

OneLisfun
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby OneLisfun » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:49 am

cookiejar1 wrote:
OneLisfun wrote:1) I'm aware published grade cut-offs are not a great proxy of exactly what they're looking for, that is obvious to me and I've never said otherwise. However, they generally go in the higher than what they're looking for direction, not lower. If a firm posts they want a 2.9 and you are from that state and have a 3.0, apply to that firm immediately, (almost) no NY law firms with a history of 3.4 will be hiring you. (In sum, yes, don't trust the ones that are really high, that's why if you noticed I spoke about not applying to firms that have past medians .3 above yours. Again show me where I said otherwise. You're wrong, not me.

2) No, again, you make more incorrect assumptions and are wrong. Didn't assume robust classes, wrong on that as well. Please do not post specific firms, I will not be posting any, but I've seen firms that are over 100 people that have six figure salaries in these markets asking for below 3.0 grades, something NY firms do not do. You want to call that midlaw? That's great, read more carefully and you'll see I mention throughout that we call 100+ big law on here, and that's the format I was continuing.
Checking to see how many people are employed by anyone is worthless, again, I'm saying these firms for people from there (i.e. not a single person I know) but if you are great, you are now competitive for big law with a 2.8. Again, more straw men to argue with.

3) Another wrong thing you've said. I say secondary markets as a general statement and you wrongly assume I mean all secondary markets, even after conversing with others for a while saying I don't know about other secondary markets, but obscure markets for all, either way I'm not sure. I think there are some secondary markets that will be getting and others that aren't. I guess in a way you're just a combo of arguing with a straw man and wrong here. Think and read, don't just come up with an idea in your head that you have an easy argument against and argue with it, this is a consistent problem for you.

4) Yes our big law plus fed clerks data includes firms of 100+, I'm talking about firms of 100+, I don't quite see what your point is on this one. I still don't see anywhere where I'm wrong. I'll keep looking. As a side note, no I didn't say if you have a 3.4 with median from lower T14 you should bid the tertiary market, if you look at any of the specific examples I posted, you'll see I'm talking about people who have 2.9s and the cutoff is a 2.8 How is that median?

5) I didn't backtrack, again you are wrong. If you think I backtracked explain to me the backtracking, it didn't happen.

6) And as far as that last thing, that is the typical advice, I did not make that up. Not target doesn't mean not include. Maybe we have different definitions of target.


Lol, my work here is done.


What work is that exactly...

OneLisfun
Posts: 81
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby OneLisfun » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:50 am

Cobretti wrote:
OneLisfun wrote:More strawmen. Didn't say categorically exclude the major market, didn't say Cleveland big law, don't have ties there, said don't put bids into the one with the 30% that's far above what you have, there are other firms in the major market that aren't that firm. Why do you constantly believe everything I write is something I didn't write. I literally cannot grasp how you come up with this stuff.

In sum, since I'm tired of people making up things I didn't say, I said Tiago Splitter was wrong, which he was, when he said everyone in the class should apply to the 30% SA, which I thought he meant was a specific law firm. If that's not what that meant, that is the entire conversation right there, I was wrong about the one thing, and everything else in this ridiculous conversation has stemmed from that.

You did misinterpret that but that is just one of many, many misstatements by you. Like cookiejar pointed out, the core of this is that you said:
Also, just to make clear, the typical advice at lower T14s is not to target NYC with lower grades. NYC is considered harder to get than secondary markets that you have ties to. At a lower T14, they will advise students with lower grades that the best move is to target secondary markets that they have ties to, as those are easier to get than NYC. That is the classic advice from career services

This advice is so bad its dangerous for 1Ls to follow, and that is why everyone has jumped on you. You have gradually modified your argument to say apparently people just shouldn't bid the most elite NY firms with the biggest SA classes from below median, which obviously people here wouldn't argue; but that's different from your original point.



No, I have not. Please show me that as well. If you have a 3.0 not bidding the 3.4 is not elite. 3.4 is not the most elite NY firm.

BigZuck
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby BigZuck » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:51 am

OneLisfun wrote:there's data available...That's a fact, and I'm right and you are wrong...I can't share that data with you though.

OneLisfun
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby OneLisfun » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:52 am

BigZuck wrote:
OneLisfun wrote:there's data available...That's a fact, and I'm right and you are wrong...I can't share that data with you though.



This is the complete truth. You can all make your whatever arguments around why bidding all NYC is the best, but the data says otherwise.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Mal Reynolds » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:53 am

OneLisfun wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
OneLisfun wrote:there's data available...That's a fact, and I'm right and you are wrong...I can't share that data with you though.



This is the complete truth. You can all make your whatever arguments around why bidding all NYC is the best, but the data says otherwise.


Your secret data?

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:53 am

OneLisfun wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
OneLisfun wrote:there's data available...That's a fact, and I'm right and you are wrong...I can't share that data with you though.



This is the complete truth. You can all make your whatever arguments around why bidding all NYC is the best, but the data says otherwise.

No one is saying this.

OneLisfun
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:33 pm

Re: Latest employment data

Postby OneLisfun » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:55 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:
OneLisfun wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
OneLisfun wrote:there's data available...That's a fact, and I'm right and you are wrong...I can't share that data with you though.



This is the complete truth. You can all make your whatever arguments around why bidding all NYC is the best, but the data says otherwise.

No one is saying this.



Okay, and I've never said anything that almost any of these guys are saying I said.

OneLisfun
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby OneLisfun » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:58 am

scottidsntknow wrote:OneLisfun and bluelotus walk into a bar...

Nothing you say is smart.

OneLisfun
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby OneLisfun » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:00 pm

.
Last edited by OneLisfun on Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BVest
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby BVest » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:10 pm

scottidsntknow wrote:OneLisfun and bluelotus walk into a bar...


Everyone else should walk out, but instead we get sucked into the most inane arguments we've ever been in.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:11 pm

TCR is to bid the major market firms who invest a lot in OCI and mass mail throughout July the local firms in the smaller markets that you're interested in stressing your ties and networking. On campus interviewing is for new york, dc, london, los angeles, chicago, texas.

OneLisfun
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby OneLisfun » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:18 pm

jbagelboy wrote:TCR is to bid the major market firms who invest a lot in OCI and mass mail throughout July the local firms in the smaller markets that you're interested in stressing your ties and networking. On campus interviewing is for new york, dc, london, los angeles, chicago, texas.


.

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JohannDeMann
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby JohannDeMann » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:23 pm

onelis, you might as well acquaint yourself with the vale if you're gonna practice what you preach.

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Cobretti
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Cobretti » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:26 pm

OneLisfun wrote:Last thing I'm writing here and I'm done. Target doesn't mean don't bid anywhere else. Students who bid both NYC and their secondary market they have ties to do better at OCI on average than students who do all NYC though. What you guys are saying is dangerous in its own way, possibly getting a person from Kansas who could have big law with their 2.9 from UMich or GULC to go bid all NY because the Kansas class sizes are so small. This makes a person who had a solid shot into no shot.

How does that change how everyone has interpreted this:
OneLisfun wrote:Also, just to make clear, the typical advice at lower T14s is not to target NYC with lower grades. NYC is considered harder to get than secondary markets that you have ties to. At a lower T14, they will advise students with lower grades that the best move is to target secondary markets that they have ties to, as those are easier to get than NYC. That is the classic advice from career services

Just more and more backpedaling... Judging by the wave of edits it seems you're backpedaling all the way out of this thread though so I guess we're done here.

To 0Ls and 1Ls, always target NY as a backup if your grades aren't bulletproof. /thread

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starry eyed
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby starry eyed » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:26 pm

I'm not saying that I have the best reading comprehension skills in the world but this is seriously hard for me to follow


so much this lol... i thought it was just me

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Capitol_Idea
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Capitol_Idea » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:34 pm

I'm just still angry OneLisFun never disavowed being a GULC'er

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Cobretti
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby Cobretti » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:36 pm

zacharus85 wrote:I'm just still angry OneLisFun never disavowed being a GULC'er

He posted in the GULC 2014 EIW thread :(

But we won't judge you guys for one 1L.

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starry eyed
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby starry eyed » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:38 pm

was sandra fluke this bad too?

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WeeBey
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby WeeBey » Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:19 pm

Maybe OneLisFun is tryna spread BS so others bid poorly and maybe improve their chances at OCI?

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FSK
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Re: Latest employment data

Postby FSK » Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:24 pm

This thread is now SPS. It was reasonable. Can we just lock it already?




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