Top Law School (Low GPA, High LSAT, URM Status)

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NativeGuy14
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Top Law School (Low GPA, High LSAT, URM Status)

Postby NativeGuy14 » Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:49 pm

Hi guys,

I'm relatively new here. I will start by giving some background information about myself. I am a Native American student attending NCSU. I will obtaining a BS in Economics w/minor in PoliSci in May of 2016. I currently have a 2.75 UGPA, but I am anticipating a final cumulative GPA of at least 3.0 (I am intelligent, however I was recently diagnosed with ADHD, which explains my lackluster GPA thus far. I am 100% certain I can get all A's the remainder of my undergrad career with the help of ADHD medications.) I have been studying LSAT prep material for about two weeks and I am currently receiving diagnostic scores of 165 under LSAT test center conditions. I am taking a LSAT prep course this summer and I am hoping to increase by score by at least 5-10 points. I also have an extensive amount of comm. serv. on my resume. (100+ hours w/kids and my tribal community)

I really want to be admitted into a reputable school, because I do not want to incur a massive amount of student debt for a degree from a low-tier school. If I am able to increase by GPA to approx. 3.25 and obtain a score ranging from 170-175, how likely is it that I could get into a good law school?? (UCLA is my ideal school) Will they take into consideration the fact that my academic performance has dramatically improved during my last two years of undergrad? Is it likely my LSAT and URM status will offset my lackluster GPA? If not, what schools do you think would be more likely to accept me? I appreciate all the help. And good luck to everyone :)

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UOI4430
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Re: Top Law School (Low GPA, High LSAT, URM Status)

Postby UOI4430 » Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:04 pm

You are not in terrible shape. Start boosting that GPA and you will be able to write an addendum that expresses why the GPA is low (but has an upward trend). The upward trend is important, and will be looked at positively. However, a low GPA (below 3.3ish) can be a killer so get that number up as much as possible. Take extra cupcake courses if you need to. Sign up for 3 P.E. classes each quarter :mrgreen:

If you get into the 170s as a URM you will have a real shot at UCLA with some money. Splitter friendly t-14s like Northwestern will become an option too. URM status and a 170s LSAT could land you in great position there.

Focus on crushing the LSAT. Good luck my friend.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Top Law School (Low GPA, High LSAT, URM Status)

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:04 pm

For top schools with money you need 2 of 3:

1. High LSAT
2. High GPA
3. URM Status

Low GPA will hurt a little but with apps down a lot in recent years plenty of top schools will fight hard for a URM with above a 170, especially if you get the GPA above 3.0.

NativeGuy14
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Re: Top Law School (Low GPA, High LSAT, URM Status)

Postby NativeGuy14 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:41 am

UOI4430 wrote:You are not in terrible shape. Start boosting that GPA and you will be able to write an addendum that expresses why the GPA is low (but has an upward trend). The upward trend is important, and will be looked at positively. However, a low GPA (below 3.3ish) can be a killer so get that number up as much as possible. Take extra cupcake courses if you need to. Sign up for 3 P.E. classes each quarter :mrgreen:

If you get into the 170s as a URM you will have a real shot at UCLA with some money. Splitter friendly t-14s like Northwestern will become an option too. URM status and a 170s LSAT could land you in great position there.

Focus on crushing the LSAT. Good luck my friend.


Thank you for the support, I feel a lot more confident thanks to your response. :D But do I have one more question - I am debating two options: 1) Obtain my Paralegal Studies certificate this summer, graduate in Spring 2016 w/ approx. 3.0 GPA, work for a year and then apply for law school w/ a great reference from a lawyer I have worked for, or 2) Graduate in Spring 2017 w/ approx. a 3.25 GPA and just have educational/community service references. Which one sounds more effective? Either way, I don't plan on starting law school until Fall 017.

NativeGuy14
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Re: Top Law School (Low GPA, High LSAT, URM Status)

Postby NativeGuy14 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:41 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:For top schools with money you need 2 of 3:

1. High LSAT
2. High GPA
3. URM Status

Low GPA will hurt a little but with apps down a lot in recent years plenty of top schools will fight hard for a URM with above a 170, especially if you get the GPA above 3.0.


Thank you so much for the feedback!! :D But do I have one more question - I am debating two options: 1) Obtain my Paralegal Studies certificate this summer, graduate in Spring 2016 w/ approx. 3.0 GPA, work for a year and then apply for law school w/ a great reference from a lawyer I have worked for, or 2) Graduate in Spring 2017 w/ approx. a 3.25 GPA and just have educational/community service references. Which one sounds more effective? Either way, I don't plan on starting law school until Fall 017.

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: Top Law School (Low GPA, High LSAT, URM Status)

Postby PeanutsNJam » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:47 am

If it's a guarantee, 3.25 + volunteer > 3.0 + WE in law firm. Just go to mylsn and plug in the numbers.

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Rigo
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Re: Top Law School (Low GPA, High LSAT, URM Status)

Postby Rigo » Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:00 pm

NativeGuy14 wrote:I am debating two options: 1) Obtain my Paralegal Studies certificate this summer, graduate in Spring 2016 w/ approx. 3.0 GPA, work for a year and then apply for law school w/ a great reference from a lawyer I have worked for, or 2) Graduate in Spring 2017 w/ approx. a 3.25 GPA and just have educational/community service references. Which one sounds more effective? Either way, I don't plan on starting law school until Fall 017.

Would you have to pay for this extra year in undergrad?

NativeGuy14
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Re: Top Law School (Low GPA, High LSAT, URM Status)

Postby NativeGuy14 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:55 pm

Rigo wrote:
NativeGuy14 wrote:I am debating two options: 1) Obtain my Paralegal Studies certificate this summer, graduate in Spring 2016 w/ approx. 3.0 GPA, work for a year and then apply for law school w/ a great reference from a lawyer I have worked for, or 2) Graduate in Spring 2017 w/ approx. a 3.25 GPA and just have educational/community service references. Which one sounds more effective? Either way, I don't plan on starting law school until Fall 017.

Would you have to pay for this extra year in undergrad?


No, I wouldn't have to pay for it. And if I stayed another year, I would be able to get a second degree in Political Science, not just a minor.

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Rigo
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Re: Top Law School (Low GPA, High LSAT, URM Status)

Postby Rigo » Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:01 pm

NativeGuy14 wrote:
Rigo wrote:Would you have to pay for this extra year in undergrad?

No, I wouldn't have to pay for it. And if I stayed another year, I would be able to get a second degree in Political Science, not just a minor.

A .25 GPA increase is pretty significant but you'd still be under the 25th% at most schools worth attending. It's hard to advise you on anything since you don't have an LSAT so we don't know what caliber of an applicant you will be.
Unless you really want to stay in school for reasons other than GPA rise, graduating and making money and gaining real world experience may very well be more important. Maybe you'll realize law isn't for you, for instance, as a lot of paralegals/legal assistants do.

Also, it's a big assumption that you'll be able to pull straight A's and be able to significantly raise your GPA. It could very likely be less than a .25 rise.

NativeGuy14
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Re: Top Law School (Low GPA, High LSAT, URM Status)

Postby NativeGuy14 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:41 pm

Rigo wrote:
NativeGuy14 wrote:
Rigo wrote:Would you have to pay for this extra year in undergrad?

No, I wouldn't have to pay for it. And if I stayed another year, I would be able to get a second degree in Political Science, not just a minor.

A .25 GPA increase is pretty significant but you'd still be under the 25th% at most schools worth attending. It's hard to advise you on anything since you don't have an LSAT so we don't know what caliber of an applicant you will be.
Unless you really want to stay in school for reasons other than GPA rise, graduating and making money and gaining real world experience may very well be more important. Maybe you'll realize law isn't for you, for instance, as a lot of paralegals/legal assistants do.

Also, it's a big assumption that you'll be able to pull straight A's and be able to significantly raise your GPA. It could very likely be less than a .25 rise.


I realize that a 3.0 or 3.25 GPA is under the 25th percentile at most top schools. (Thank you, nonetheless, Captain Obvious.) That is precisely why I asked if they will consider the fact that my grades have improved significantly during my last two years. I'm not asking you whether it is possible for me to get straight A's and significantly increase my GPA or whether I am able to score 170+ on the LSAT. And why do I need a to have an official LSAT score? You are not an admissions officer; I do not need to prove my "caliber" to you. I simply posted a thread asking IF I am able to accomplish these things, will I be considered at a top school. Your job as a responder to the thread that I posted isn't to question my ability to achieve a 3.25 GPA or an LSAT score over 170 - your job as a responder to MY thread that I posted is to answer the questions that I asked. (You had one job, dude)

"It's hard to advise you on anything." So may I ask you a question? What was your point in replying to this thread? You answered none of my questions. In fact, your response to my initial question was....a question. You wasted both of our time. Gosh, I'd love to see your LSAT score. Usually I wouldn't even respond to such idiocy, but I'm hoping to serve the greater good and convince you in the future not to waste other people's time. (HINT: You shouldn't respond to this)

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Rigo
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Re: Top Law School (Low GPA, High LSAT, URM Status)

Postby Rigo » Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:28 pm

NativeGuy14 wrote:I realize that a 3.0 or 3.25 GPA is under the 25th percentile at most top schools. (Thank you, nonetheless, Captain Obvious.) That is precisely why I asked if they will consider the fact that my grades have improved significantly during my last two years. I'm not asking you whether it is possible for me to get straight A's and significantly increase my GPA or whether I am able to score 170+ on the LSAT. And why do I need a to have an official LSAT score? You are not an admissions officer; I do not need to prove my "caliber" to you. I simply posted a thread asking IF I am able to accomplish these things, will I be considered at a top school. Your job as a responder to the thread that I posted isn't to question my ability to achieve a 3.25 GPA or an LSAT score over 170 - your job as a responder to MY thread that I posted is to answer the questions that I asked. (You had one job, dude)

"It's hard to advise you on anything." So may I ask you a question? What was your point in replying to this thread? You answered none of my questions. In fact, your response to my initial question was....a question. You wasted both of our time. Gosh, I'd love to see your LSAT score. Usually I wouldn't even respond to such idiocy, but I'm hoping to serve the greater good and convince you in the future not to waste other people's time. (HINT: You shouldn't respond to this)

I don't see how what I earnestly said triggered this reaction.
The question I asked is pertinent to a cost-benefit analysis of your two options & in the follow-up I laid out some considerations.
Goodluck dude. You'll need it with that negativity and unnecessarily combative attitude.

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Dream_weaver32
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Re: Top Law School (Low GPA, High LSAT, URM Status)

Postby Dream_weaver32 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:54 pm

NativeGuy14 wrote:
Rigo wrote:
NativeGuy14 wrote:
Rigo wrote:Would you have to pay for this extra year in undergrad?

No, I wouldn't have to pay for it. And if I stayed another year, I would be able to get a second degree in Political Science, not just a minor.

A .25 GPA increase is pretty significant but you'd still be under the 25th% at most schools worth attending. It's hard to advise you on anything since you don't have an LSAT so we don't know what caliber of an applicant you will be.
Unless you really want to stay in school for reasons other than GPA rise, graduating and making money and gaining real world experience may very well be more important. Maybe you'll realize law isn't for you, for instance, as a lot of paralegals/legal assistants do.

Also, it's a big assumption that you'll be able to pull straight A's and be able to significantly raise your GPA. It could very likely be less than a .25 rise.


I realize that a 3.0 or 3.25 GPA is under the 25th percentile at most top schools. (Thank you, nonetheless, Captain Obvious.) That is precisely why I asked if they will consider the fact that my grades have improved significantly during my last two years. I'm not asking you whether it is possible for me to get straight A's and significantly increase my GPA or whether I am able to score 170+ on the LSAT. And why do I need a to have an official LSAT score? You are not an admissions officer; I do not need to prove my "caliber" to you. I simply posted a thread asking IF I am able to accomplish these things, will I be considered at a top school. Your job as a responder to the thread that I posted isn't to question my ability to achieve a 3.25 GPA or an LSAT score over 170 - your job as a responder to MY thread that I posted is to answer the questions that I asked. (You had one job, dude)

"It's hard to advise you on anything." So may I ask you a question? What was your point in replying to this thread? You answered none of my questions. In fact, your response to my initial question was....a question. You wasted both of our time. Gosh, I'd love to see your LSAT score. Usually I wouldn't even respond to such idiocy, but I'm hoping to serve the greater good and convince you in the future not to waste other people's time. (HINT: You shouldn't respond to this)


First off, you should chill out. You literally are contradicting yourself, you say that Rigo is not an admissions officer, and you don't have to prove your "caliber" to him, but yet you want us to tell you what the chances are of your hypothetical situation.

Do you want us to not judge your caliber, or do you want us to make guesses about what might happen if certain things happen over the next year. Either way you aren't going to get a great answer because most people on this site are going to tell you to get your GPA as high as possible and come back when you have an LSAT score.

PoopNpants
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Re: Top Law School (Low GPA, High LSAT, URM Status)

Postby PoopNpants » Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:58 pm

speaking from experience, I took an extra 20 credits to try to bump my UGPA up and I planned on getting straight A's but ended up getting basically a 3.5 so the effect it had on my gpa wasn't nearly as impactful as I hoped. Assuming your gonna get straight A's is almost as asinine on assuming your going to get a 170 LSAT, which only 2.8% of takers achieve.

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: Top Law School (Low GPA, High LSAT, URM Status)

Postby PeanutsNJam » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:03 pm

To be fair I assumed I'd get 170+ and barely did so twice so yeah rigo up yours

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Postby santoki » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:07 pm

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Smallville
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Re: Top Law School (Low GPA, High LSAT, URM Status)

Postby Smallville » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:15 pm

NativeGuy14 wrote: your job as a responder to MY thread that I posted is to answer the questions that I asked. (You had one job, dude)

pretty sure when I signed up it wasn't for any sort of job :shock: bastards tricked me!

NativeGuy14
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Re: Top Law School (Low GPA, High LSAT, URM Status)

Postby NativeGuy14 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:16 pm

PoopNpants wrote:speaking from experience, I took an extra 20 credits to try to bump my UGPA up and I planned on getting straight A's but ended up getting basically a 3.5 so the effect it had on my gpa wasn't nearly as impactful as I hoped. Assuming your gonna get straight A's is almost as asinine on assuming your going to get a 170 LSAT, which only 2.8% of takers achieve.


You comparing our situations is completely asinine. The fact you were unable to accomplish your goal of obtaining a significantly higher GPA and you don't have faith in your ability to achieve a 170 on the LSAT has no bearing on my abilities or my faith in my abilities. You made several assumptions 1)I'm only taking an extra 20 credits 2) I will only get a 3.5 average in those classes 3) I'm not in the top 2.8% of LSAT test takers. I'm not going to assume you didn't make a 170 on the LSAT. However, if you did not make a 170 I am going to take a wild guess and say it was probably because you're willing to make an argument based off unfounded assumptions. :D

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Dr. Nefario
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Re: Top Law School (Low GPA, High LSAT, URM Status)

Postby Dr. Nefario » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:17 pm

Back to your rabbit hole bunny no one asked your carrot eating opinion.

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Smallville
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Re: Top Law School (Low GPA, High LSAT, URM Status)

Postby Smallville » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:18 pm

NativeGuy14 wrote:
PoopNpants wrote:speaking from experience, I took an extra 20 credits to try to bump my UGPA up and I planned on getting straight A's but ended up getting basically a 3.5 so the effect it had on my gpa wasn't nearly as impactful as I hoped. Assuming your gonna get straight A's is almost as asinine on assuming your going to get a 170 LSAT, which only 2.8% of takers achieve.


You comparing our situations is completely asinine. The fact you were unable to accomplish your goal of obtaining a significantly higher GPA and you don't have faith in your ability to achieve a 170 on the LSAT has no bearing on my abilities or my faith in my abilities. You made several assumptions 1)I'm only taking an extra 20 credits 2) I will only get a 3.5 average in those classes 3) I'm not in the top 2.8% of LSAT test takers. I'm not going to assume you didn't make a 170 on the LSAT. However, if you did not make a 170 I am going to take a wild guess and say it was probably because you're willing to make an argument based off unfounded assumptions. :D

I'm confused... were you looking for only someone who is or was at one point in the EXACT situation as you to let you know everything will be okay?

also
NativeGuy14 wrote:"It's hard to advise you on anything." So may I ask you a question? What was your point in replying to this thread? You answered none of my questions. In fact, your response to my initial question was....a question. You wasted both of our time. Gosh, I'd love to see your LSAT score. Usually I wouldn't even respond to such idiocy, but I'm hoping to serve the greater good and convince you in the future not to waste other people's time. (HINT: You shouldn't respond to this)

maybe he wanted more info to provide you with the best possible advice he can with the things he's learned through his super crazy amazing poast count of OVER 8,000!!! (Rigo, you gotta get to 9k for this reason please)
Last edited by Smallville on Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dr. Nefario
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Re: Top Law School (Low GPA, High LSAT, URM Status)

Postby Dr. Nefario » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:19 pm

NativeGuy14 wrote:
PoopNpants wrote:speaking from experience, I took an extra 20 credits to try to bump my UGPA up and I planned on getting straight A's but ended up getting basically a 3.5 so the effect it had on my gpa wasn't nearly as impactful as I hoped. Assuming your gonna get straight A's is almost as asinine on assuming your going to get a 170 LSAT, which only 2.8% of takers achieve.


You comparing our situations is completely asinine. The fact you were unable to accomplish your goal of obtaining a significantly higher GPA and you don't have faith in your ability to achieve a 170 on the LSAT has no bearing on my abilities or my faith in my abilities. You made several assumptions 1)I'm only taking an extra 20 credits 2) I will only get a 3.5 average in those classes 3) I'm not in the top 2.8% of LSAT test takers. I'm not going to assume you didn't make a 170 on the LSAT. However, if you did not make a 170 I am going to take a wild guess and say it was probably because you're willing to make an argument based off unfounded assumptions. :D


If you didn't want people comparing the situations they were in to yours then you're in the wrong place. 99% of advice given on this forum is purely anecdotal and personal experience. If you want professional advice go to talk to spivey instead of arguing here
Last edited by Dr. Nefario on Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dream_weaver32
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Re: Top Law School (Low GPA, High LSAT, URM Status)

Postby Dream_weaver32 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:19 pm

NativeGuy14 wrote:
PoopNpants wrote:speaking from experience, I took an extra 20 credits to try to bump my UGPA up and I planned on getting straight A's but ended up getting basically a 3.5 so the effect it had on my gpa wasn't nearly as impactful as I hoped. Assuming your gonna get straight A's is almost as asinine on assuming your going to get a 170 LSAT, which only 2.8% of takers achieve.


You comparing our situations is completely asinine. The fact you were unable to accomplish your goal of obtaining a significantly higher GPA and you don't have faith in your ability to achieve a 170 on the LSAT has no bearing on my abilities or my faith in my abilities. You made several assumptions 1)I'm only taking an extra 20 credits 2) I will only get a 3.5 average in those classes 3) I'm not in the top 2.8% of LSAT test takers. I'm not going to assume you didn't make a 170 on the LSAT. However, if you did not make a 170 I am going to take a wild guess and say it was probably because you're willing to make an argument based off unfounded assumptions. :D


You come asking for answers and when you don't get the answers you want you throw a little fit.

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: Top Law School (Low GPA, High LSAT, URM Status)

Postby PeanutsNJam » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:23 pm

Look OP just go to mylsn and plug in 3.25/180/URM, and have a box of tissue nearby. Lord knows I did that before the grim reality of my non-180 (not even close) score came in.

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Auxilio
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Re: Top Law School (Low GPA, High LSAT, URM Status)

Postby Auxilio » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:23 pm

NativeGuy14 wrote:
Rigo wrote:
NativeGuy14 wrote:
Rigo wrote:Would you have to pay for this extra year in undergrad?

No, I wouldn't have to pay for it. And if I stayed another year, I would be able to get a second degree in Political Science, not just a minor.

A .25 GPA increase is pretty significant but you'd still be under the 25th% at most schools worth attending. It's hard to advise you on anything since you don't have an LSAT so we don't know what caliber of an applicant you will be.
Unless you really want to stay in school for reasons other than GPA rise, graduating and making money and gaining real world experience may very well be more important. Maybe you'll realize law isn't for you, for instance, as a lot of paralegals/legal assistants do.

Also, it's a big assumption that you'll be able to pull straight A's and be able to significantly raise your GPA. It could very likely be less than a .25 rise.


I realize that a 3.0 or 3.25 GPA is under the 25th percentile at most top schools. (Thank you, nonetheless, Captain Obvious.) That is precisely why I asked if they will consider the fact that my grades have improved significantly during my last two years. I'm not asking you whether it is possible for me to get straight A's and significantly increase my GPA or whether I am able to score 170+ on the LSAT. And why do I need a to have an official LSAT score? You are not an admissions officer; I do not need to prove my "caliber" to you. I simply posted a thread asking IF I am able to accomplish these things, will I be considered at a top school. Your job as a responder to the thread that I posted isn't to question my ability to achieve a 3.25 GPA or an LSAT score over 170 - your job as a responder to MY thread that I posted is to answer the questions that I asked. (You had one job, dude)

"It's hard to advise you on anything." So may I ask you a question? What was your point in replying to this thread? You answered none of my questions. In fact, your response to my initial question was....a question. You wasted both of our time. Gosh, I'd love to see your LSAT score. Usually I wouldn't even respond to such idiocy, but I'm hoping to serve the greater good and convince you in the future not to waste other people's time. (HINT: You shouldn't respond to this)


That is such a ridiculous/uncalled for comment. . .

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Postby McJimJam » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:34 pm

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NativeGuy14
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Re: Top Law School (Low GPA, High LSAT, URM Status)

Postby NativeGuy14 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:35 pm

Smallville wrote:
NativeGuy14 wrote: your job as a responder to MY thread that I posted is to answer the questions that I asked. (You had one job, dude)

pretty sure when I signed up it wasn't for any sort of job :shock: bastards tricked me!


Yeah, you did actually. You signed up to either 1) Post a forum for people to give feedback to or 2) Give feedback on other's forum. That would be your "job" or "purpose" as a member of this discussion board. I can see why that doesn't make sense to you, since it's obvious you are here to troll. But that's why there is a report button for "off-topic" responses. *bloop*




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