USC and UCLA how to negotiate for scholarship

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kdelijan
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USC and UCLA how to negotiate for scholarship

Postby kdelijan » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:19 am

*******UPDATE*********

So good news, I received $67,500 from UCLA which as far as costs means that UCLA will now cost me $68,000 total, and USC will cost me $60,000 total.

My situation boils down to this. I need to be as close as possible to my family because of whats going on with my Dad losing his job and even though it seems like USC is cheaper I could commute from my grandma's apartment which is walking distance from UCLA. Not to mention not needing a car anymore which saves a ton more money. Obviously I need to consider these variables a little more carefully but I will pretty much have to go UCLA at this point.

And yes my financial situation is so bad now that I'll probably live with my grandma until the end of law school :( .

I need to draft an email to USC communicating to them that I need a big scholarship increase without sounding rude. I would absolutely go 'SC if they offered me full scholarship, and would probably go if it was close to full (again depends on talking to my family considering all the costs...etc). Again, I don't want to seem like I'm giving them an ultimatum, but then again I am, and it would be a shame if they lowballed and only gave me 10-15K, they'd be getting there but I'd still turn them down unless it was full or close to full.

Any tips or suggestions? Even a brief draft email would help. Or if you think a personal phone call would be better let me know. Again thanks everyone for helping, and Dean Reid has been very warm and genuine as well so I won't ask her to "shit in a hat" :o


**********************************************************************************************************************************************





So here's my situation, I was accepted to both USC and UCLA and received an offer of $35,000/year from USC but nothing yet from UCLA. I'm guessing at this point that UCLA doesn't intend to offer me anything as far as merit scholarships. (if you disagree lmk)

I am wondering whether to email USC first and ask them for more money (without any other offers just telling them it would be a big factor in my decision) or going to UCLA first getting an offer then going back to USC...etc.


HOWEVER there is a small caveat. I was accepted to USC first and went to a tour at UCLA afterwards, I spoke to the dean directly and told him that UCLA was my first choice, which was true. After looking at my file and telling me there was some concern about my writing abilities he called me the next morning and told me I was accepted.

I want to negotiate but I also don't want to seem rude to Dean Schwartz and seem like I'm going back on my word, while UCLA is still my first choice the money is a huge factor and if I didn't receive anything from UCLA I'd probably go USC. I am also worried that because I wasn't accepted until talking to the Dean that UCLA just doesn't want me that badly.

Any advice would be great, deadlines for choosing are coming up in a month and I have to do something, also any tips on how exactly to initiate contact, a phone call, email or in person visit... would be great.


And in case anyone was wondering I'm 170/3.7 undergrad USC
Last edited by kdelijan on Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Winston1984
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Re: USC and UCLA how to negotiate for scholarship

Postby Winston1984 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:47 am

I would show UCLA your offer from USC. USC has no reason to increase your scholarship if you don't have anything to negotiate with. You are not being rude or disingenuous to UCLA. I have a number 1 school too, but if they don't offer me enough money compared to peers, I'm not going to go. I bet UCLA wouldn't expect you to attend at sticker if USC offers you $35k a year.

The writing comment he made is kinda weird.. Oh, and you can just send UCLA admissions an email about how they are your number one choice, but financial considerations are important, and so on.

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RareExports
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Re: USC and UCLA how to negotiate for scholarship

Postby RareExports » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:55 am

If you had the numbers to get 105k at USC, I would imagine you'll get at least some money at UCLA. AFAIK, they've only sent out 1 or 2 rounds of scholarships so far.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: USC and UCLA how to negotiate for scholarship

Postby Tiago Splitter » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:04 am

"I have some concerns about your writing ability..." just lol. These Deans.

Anyways, you owe absolutely nothing to UCLA. The best strategy is to go to UCLA with your USC scholarship offer and see what they say. Once they give you something, go back to USC and make sure to emphasize that USC's tuition is about 10k more than UCLA's for CA residents. With these schools always negotiate just the straight scholarship with UCLA but compare the total cost of attendance with USC.

MikeJD
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Re: USC and UCLA how to negotiate for scholarship

Postby MikeJD » Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:21 pm

You have to go to UCLA and show them your USC offer. You can't go to USC anymore because they will tell you,they are your best most affordable option already.

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PvblivsScipio
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Re: USC and UCLA how to negotiate for scholarship

Postby PvblivsScipio » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:48 pm

I was in the exact same situation. Admitted to UCLA first with no money, then later off the waitlist to USC with money. I basically just went to UCLA and told them I had a scholarship. I didn't even say how much, but they seemed to know and matched it exactly. Went back to USC to get it raised. Rinse and repeat until they won't give you any more, then decide on the school.

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goldenflash19
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Re: USC and UCLA how to negotiate for scholarship

Postby goldenflash19 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:25 pm

I think most schools understand that being your "first choice" does not necessarily mean being your "best choice" in terms of money and practicality. If anything, you've shown some interest in the school that could cause them to consider your offer more seriously knowing that there's a good chance you'll show if they pony up.

071816
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Re: USC and UCLA how to negotiate for scholarship

Postby 071816 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:32 pm

Tell Dean Schwartz to go shit in his hat. You shouldn't be worried about offending him for even a second. You have to do what's best for your future.

MikeJD
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Re: USC and UCLA how to negotiate for scholarship

Postby MikeJD » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:38 pm

With a 170 3.7 they should be begging you to attend and he is dissing your writing?? ahahahah

hdunlop
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Re: USC and UCLA how to negotiate for scholarship

Postby hdunlop » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:08 pm

Valid concern re. not being loved. Don't worry about going back on the first choice thing, unless you said "I love you so much I'd pay sticker!" Obviously be delicate about it, especially since I thought Schwartz was nice so I wouldn't tell him to shit anywhere, but. I ended up discovering my first choice wasn't anymore after they gave me less than I had hoped.

AZ123
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Re: USC and UCLA how to negotiate for scholarship

Postby AZ123 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:33 pm

FWIW I tried negotiating with UCLA using a better scholarship from a higher ranked school and I got shot down almost immediately. It was honestly one of my top choices too.

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cron1834
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Re: USC and UCLA how to negotiate for scholarship

Postby cron1834 » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:26 pm

In one round of negotiations I got USC to go from 40k/yr to full ride. With that offer plus some T14 money, Ucla wouldn't budge on my merit money and found like 3k/yr of need aid for me. Ucla is just tough with money. I assume that the state of California is still broke.

03152016
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Re: USC and UCLA how to negotiate for scholarship

Postby 03152016 » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:36 pm

it's important you understand what's happening here
the dean told you there was concern about your writing to neg you
he was trying to make you feel some gratitude for when he called you the next morning with a big shit-eating grin on his face and announced he had decided to give you a shot

and because you told them that ucla was your top choice, they have little incentive to offer you money
this is why you've received $0, when your numbers are consistent with a big $100k+ scholarship and within striking distance of a full-ride
they want to see if they can trap you and your strong numbers without having to pay

i'm shocked and disgusted by the low aid amounts you've been offered

MikeJD
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Re: USC and UCLA how to negotiate for scholarship

Postby MikeJD » Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:27 pm

cron1834 wrote:In one round of negotiations I got USC to go from 40k/yr to full ride. With that offer plus some T14 money, Ucla wouldn't budge on my merit money and found like 3k/yr of need aid for me. Ucla is just tough with money. I assume that the state of California is still broke.



Well actually they give quite a few full rides and they are one of the very first school to start negotiating scholarships but it doesn't work out for everyone.

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cron1834
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Re: USC and UCLA how to negotiate for scholarship

Postby cron1834 » Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:29 pm

MikeJD wrote:
cron1834 wrote:In one round of negotiations I got USC to go from 40k/yr to full ride. With that offer plus some T14 money, Ucla wouldn't budge on my merit money and found like 3k/yr of need aid for me. Ucla is just tough with money. I assume that the state of California is still broke.



Well actually they give quite a few full rides and they are one of the very first school to start negotiating scholarships but it doesn't work out for everyone.

I'm not disagreeing w/any of that. I was just highlighting the difference bt USC and UCLA. It was pretty stark for me. I suspect others experienced the same.

HalfStudent
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Re: USC and UCLA how to negotiate for scholarship

Postby HalfStudent » Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:40 pm

cron1834 wrote:In one round of negotiations I got USC to go from 40k/yr to full ride. With that offer plus some T14 money, Ucla wouldn't budge on my merit money and found like 3k/yr of need aid for me. Ucla is just tough with money. I assume that the state of California is still broke.



They are not broke UC schools still get a ton of money. It's just that most schools have actually cut spending or frozen hiring but UCLA has expanded with new clinics and the hiring of new professors.

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Yea All Right
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Re: USC and UCLA how to negotiate for scholarship

Postby Yea All Right » Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:44 am

Dean Schwartz is a super nice and cool guy, so anyone who wants to tell him to go shit in a hat can go shit in a hat. And FWIW I don't even attend UCLA.

Admittedly you lost some of your leverage already; I had something similar happen to me last cycle. Just be polite and emphasize that ultimately you have financial numbers you need to consider in making your decision. I had a $105,000 scholarship to USC too, don't accept anything less than the $75,000 I got from UCLA (they won't match USC's scholarship total because they factor in their lower COA).

RubyRod
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Re: USC and UCLA how to negotiate for scholarship

Postby RubyRod » Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:45 pm

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Last edited by RubyRod on Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Yea All Right
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Re: USC and UCLA how to negotiate for scholarship

Postby Yea All Right » Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:57 pm

mec896 wrote:Jumping in with a similar-ish situation.

USC- Initial offer $45k/year guaranteed (135K). I'm a bit bummed I did not get full tuition, but I feel I could negotiate up. (I think I got a priority decision. Accepted 12 days after I submitted via LSAC, not even sure when the app went complete.)

UCLA: I sent out a feeler email to find out where I stood in the merit department, I received a need grant already $11k. Schwartz pushed my email over to Tanlin who said I'd have an answer at the end of the week, and asked if I had any offers to share. I side stepped the question by saying I was mainly concerned about not getting any updates on merit since the need award and thanked her for her response. She's now asked again about other offers.

I'm thinking I should NOT show my hand first by telling them USC's offer before UCLA makes an initial for two reasons. 1) They may offer me more (or at least a lesser total COA) than this USC offer, but why would they do anything more than match if they already know what USC is offering? 2)I could use whatever UCLA gives as leverage against USC before going back to UCLA for the first round of negotiations.

Is this wrong? What do you guys think? Any advice would be hugely appreciated.


LSAT: 169
LSAC GPA: Somewhere between 3.93 and 4.03 (I transferred and don't remember exact grades from initial college and A+ didn't count in undergrad)


I don't think what you're doing is morally wrong or the wrong way to approach negotiations per se. It's just up to you on how willing you are to be stubborn and continuously avoid the competing offers question.

071816
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Re: USC and UCLA how to negotiate for scholarship

Postby 071816 » Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:06 pm

mec896 wrote:Jumping in with a similar-ish situation.

USC- Initial offer $45k/year guaranteed (135K). I'm a bit bummed I did not get full tuition, but I feel I could negotiate up. (I think I got a priority decision. Accepted 12 days after I submitted via LSAC, not even sure when the app went complete.)

UCLA: I sent out a feeler email to find out where I stood in the merit department, I received a need grant already $11k. Schwartz pushed my email over to Tanlin who said I'd have an answer at the end of the week, and asked if I had any offers to share. I side stepped the question by saying I was mainly concerned about not getting any updates on merit since the need award and thanked her for her response. She's now asked again about other offers.

I'm thinking I should NOT show my hand first by telling them USC's offer before UCLA makes an initial for two reasons. 1) They may offer me more (or at least a lesser total COA) than this USC offer, but why would they do anything more than match if they already know what USC is offering? 2)I could use whatever UCLA gives as leverage against USC before going back to UCLA for the first round of negotiations.

Is this wrong? What do you guys think? Any advice would be hugely appreciated.


LSAT: 169
LSAC GPA: Somewhere between 3.93 and 4.03 (I transferred and don't remember exact grades from initial college and A+ didn't count in undergrad)


Nothing wrong with withholding this information, just don't make any misrepresentations. Law schools have been doing this to prospective students for years. Although you should always be respectful and courteous, you don't owe this Schwartz guy anything.
Last edited by 071816 on Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: USC and UCLA how to negotiate for scholarship

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:31 pm

I'd try to avoid the question on other offers but at some point just lay out your cards. If you have big schollies in the T-14, as you should, to go along with 135k at USC they'll need to put up. They should come close to full tuition with your numbers. But you're definitely right to hold out for them to make the first offer.

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reasonable person
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Re: USC and UCLA how to negotiate for scholarship

Postby reasonable person » Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:58 pm

Brut wrote:it's important you understand what's happening here
the dean told you there was concern about your writing to neg you
he was trying to make you feel some gratitude for when he called you the next morning with a big shit-eating grin on his face and announced he had decided to give you a shot

and because you told them that ucla was your top choice, they have little incentive to offer you money
this is why you've received $0, when your numbers are consistent with a big $100k+ scholarship and within striking distance of a full-ride
they want to see if they can trap you and your strong numbers without having to pay

i'm shocked and disgusted by the low aid amounts you've been offered


I like your thinking.

kdelijan
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Re: USC and UCLA how to negotiate for scholarship

Postby kdelijan » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:26 am

thanks everyone, just so you know I emailed UCLA telling them about my financial situation and that it was a priority...the usual stuff, AND attached my USC scholarship offer in that email. Some of the people who posted later suggested I not do that until I got their offer first but I guess its too late for that :oops: Oh well whats done is done, they responded within the day, here's the email I was sent:

"Thank you for your e-mail. We have received a large volume of requests for scholarship consideration. We will respond back to you no later than the end of next week and we appreciate your patience!

Best,
Talin"

Anyway its really out of my hands now, they'll counteroffer, i'll go to USC again rinse and repeat until I get my final offers, of course the deadline for accepting a scholarship from USC is april 16th so it'll all be over by then. I'll keep you all posted as to what happens and what I get offered

Thanks for all your help :P

kdelijan
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Re: USC and UCLA how to negotiate for scholarship

Postby kdelijan » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:29 am

Just in case anyone wanted to see here's the email I sent to them in the first place:

"Dear Dean Schwartz,
Firstly, I would like to thank you again for seeing me in person and expediting my admission to UCLA, it was a great help and a weight off my shoulders. When we met I told you that UCLA was my first choice for law school and that remains true, even more so after attending classes and witnessing firsthand UCLA's collegial atmosphere, emphasis on public interest work, and academic excellence.

That being said, I was recently offered a generous scholarship from USC which is attached below. Due to recent unfortunate developments with my family's business my finances, which were always a priority, are now much more important. As such, merit scholarships will be a strong consideration in my decision making.

Again I want to make it clear that UCLA is still my first choice and it would be a dream come true to attend. If UCLA could provide me with a scholarship it would greatly impact my final decision.

Thank you for your time, and all the best"


Didn't add anything fancy just wrote how I felt and its all true (including the part about my Dad's business unfortunately).

For the record I should also say that Dean Schwartz did seem like a genuinely nice guy and I am grateful to him for seeing me so I won't tell him to shit in a hat :P. If anyone has feedback or maybe any tips for the next time I email them that would be appreciated
Last edited by kdelijan on Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

RubyRod
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Re: USC and UCLA how to negotiate for scholarship

Postby RubyRod » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:29 am

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Last edited by RubyRod on Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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