Why is tuition steadily going up?

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Sirius Blackstone
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Re: Why is tuition steadily going up?

Postby Sirius Blackstone » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:34 pm

NonTradLawHopeful wrote:
SemperLegal wrote:
NonTradLawHopeful wrote:3-5% isn't much more than inflation. Schools cost a lot of money to operate and continually upgrade facilities. It isn't just law school, most post-secondary schools increase at least the rate of inflation.



In what universe is inflation nearly 5% and post secondary schools are baselines for institutional sustainability?


I said not much more than....inflation in a slow economy is 1-2%, and around 3.5% in a good economy.


Although the raw percentage of tuition increases isn't much higher than a year of inflation, It ends up being significant when tuition is steadily rising 3-5% a year during a period of slow economic growth, such as the last 7-8 years.

Paul Campos
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Re: Why is tuition steadily going up?

Postby Paul Campos » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:36 pm

Increased discounting accounts for relatively little of the increase in sticker price tuition. Also 40-45% of law students are still paying sticker.

http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2014/06/much-law-school-tuition-really-gone

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JohannDeMann
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Re: Why is tuition steadily going up?

Postby JohannDeMann » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:38 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
6778628 wrote:In addition to what everyone else has said, it's important to remember that grant amounts and frequency have also increased, perhaps proportionally with tuition or even higher.

It could just be that schools are getting better at price differentiation and that the actual average tuition paid per student hasn't gotten up more than inflation (if at all).

Nah.


HAHAH lol. No. Universities are going to keep raising tuition until it's not profitable for them/people stop paying it. The scholarships and that sort of calculation I'm sure are made by completely different decision makers. Even if made by the same decision makers, it's the second part of the decision and the decisions aren't made together.

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JCougar
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Re: Why is tuition steadily going up?

Postby JCougar » Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:00 pm

Why not? The current student loan situation basically allows law schools to print as much money as they feel like as long as they can get bodies in the door, and they have no skin in the game as it pertains to paying it back. The students will never pay it back either. For most, it's a physical impossibility, since they will never make enough in their lifetime to do so with today's law school debt loads.

In a normal market, prices would have to drop to address slackening demand. But in this market, tuition is joke money--it's not even real and nobody will ever have to pay it back. FedGov will just forgive it in 10-20 years. Need to make up for the lack of students by printing more money per student so that the academy can keep getting their paychecks.

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starry eyed
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Re: Why is tuition steadily going up?

Postby starry eyed » Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:25 pm

If tuition did raise to 100k I still don't think the smart applicants would be all that adversely affected. They will still have scholarships and top schools to choose from.to choose from and if tuition is 100k, the percentage of grads getting big law would be huge lol (due to the very small number of students). As for The students who continue to go to the t4... Social darwinism

MikeJD
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Re: Why is tuition steadily going up?

Postby MikeJD » Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:56 pm

starry eyed wrote:If tuition did raise to 100k I still don't think the smart applicants would be all that adversely affected. They will still have scholarships and top schools to choose from.to choose from and if tuition is 100k, the percentage of grads getting big law would be huge lol (due to the very small number of students). As for The students who continue to go to the t4... Social darwinism


At some point the price is removed from any reality that no one would buy the degree. 100K would be that point. Even at current prices many people will not go, and the others just have to wake up and smell the reality and we are getting there.

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SemperLegal
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Re: Why is tuition steadily going up?

Postby SemperLegal » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:11 pm

MikeJD wrote:
starry eyed wrote:If tuition did raise to 100k I still don't think the smart applicants would be all that adversely affected. They will still have scholarships and top schools to choose from.to choose from and if tuition is 100k, the percentage of grads getting big law would be huge lol (due to the very small number of students). As for The students who continue to go to the t4... Social darwinism


At some point the price is removed from any reality that no one would buy the degree. 100K would be that point. Even at current prices many people will not go, and the others just have to wake up and smell the reality and we are getting there.

If you qualify for lrap or pslf, why would you care? You pay the same regardless if tuition is 40k a year or 40 k a credit.

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RareExports
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Re: Why is tuition steadily going up?

Postby RareExports » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:56 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
6778628 wrote:In addition to what everyone else has said, it's important to remember that grant amounts and frequency have also increased, perhaps proportionally with tuition or even higher.

It could just be that schools are getting better at price differentiation and that the actual average tuition paid per student hasn't gotten up more than inflation (if at all).

Nah.


HAHAH lol. No. Universities are going to keep raising tuition until it's not profitable for them/people stop paying it. The scholarships and that sort of calculation I'm sure are made by completely different decision makers. Even if made by the same decision makers, it's the second part of the decision and the decisions aren't made together.

Like I said, it's an additional factor.

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Aeon
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Re: Why is tuition steadily going up?

Postby Aeon » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:49 pm

Classic bubble: unsustainable buying fueled by debt. It's unclear how the market will correct itself, as the government is heavily involved in the student loan business.

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baal hadad
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Re: Why is tuition steadily going up?

Postby baal hadad » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:31 am

The invisible hand of the free market

Julius
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Re: Why is tuition steadily going up?

Postby Julius » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:54 am

I think it is a host of contributing factors.

1) Law school is something of a Veblen good.
2) No cap on federal loans + debt relief programs = sky is the limit. I think once you start getting into these numbers and tradeoffs it is hard for students to even conceptualize what they are doing when they sign up for federal loans.
3) Schools have become better about squeezing the wealthier or dumber students by increasing tuition for everyone (see 1) and then giving out discounts.
4) The disappearance of elite public law schools with low tuition (see 1) has destroyed one of the checks on runaway tuition. Now Virginia/Berkeley/UT charge the same as private schools. I'd argue that the cause of this has more to do with a basic change in mission and runaway administrative costs at public schools than decreases in state funding but whatever the cause the fact is that top public law schools aren't stealing away the thrifty students anymore.
5) The top schools have so solidified their place as the top schools that they can chase revenue (e.g., lower medians, accept 100 transfer students) instead of preserve student quality and not lose too much in the long run.

Wherever you put your emphasis, I think we're squarely into bubble territory at this point. Put a $57, 000 cap on federal loans and the house of cards will come crashing down.

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Pneumonia
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Re: Why is tuition steadily going up?

Postby Pneumonia » Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:24 pm

Because there's not cap on GradPlus and forgiveness.




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