US News rankings coming March 10th

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ballcaps
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Re: US News rankings coming March 10th

Postby ballcaps » Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:30 pm

pamphleteer wrote:After the top 13 schools (and even within them), rankings lose all meaning.


that is an absolutely outrageous notion.

outside of the top 13, i agree, though.

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: US News rankings coming March 10th

Postby PeanutsNJam » Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:47 pm

InTheHouse wrote:I think all we need to do is get rid of all the incentives to jack up tuition.


So make everything in the world cheaper, got it.

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runinthefront
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Re: US News rankings coming March 10th

Postby runinthefront » Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:49 pm

ballcaps wrote:
pamphleteer wrote:After the top 13 schools (and even within them), rankings lose all meaning.


that is an absolutely outrageous notion.

outside of the top 13, i agree, though.


I don't know if there's a substantial difference between NU/Cornell, UPenn/Virginia, Chi/Columbia

I mean, yeah, there's definitely a difference between Harvard/Berkeley or Yale/Duke, but those are extreme examples. I think the "absolutely outrageous" is a tad bit strong.

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ballcaps
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Re: US News rankings coming March 10th

Postby ballcaps » Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:16 pm

runinthefront wrote:I mean, yeah, there's definitely a difference between Harvard/Berkeley or Yale/Duke, but those are extreme examples.


of course i agree there's little substantive difference between nu/cornell, penn/uva, etc.

but pamphleteer's statement was totally unqualified. hence my (admittedly slightly bombastic) statement.

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pamphleteer
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Re: US News rankings coming March 10th

Postby pamphleteer » Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:43 am

ballcaps wrote:
pamphleteer wrote:After the top 13 schools (and even within them), rankings lose all meaning.


that is an absolutely outrageous notion.

outside of the top 13, i agree, though.


After HYS, the top schools are still somewhat regional as far as ties-sensitive markets are concerned, no? NU is better for Chicago placement than Penn, Duke is better for the south than Michigan, Berkeley is better for California than NYU, etc. independent of where those schools are ranked overall. Obviously they're all national to some degree but rank doesn't directly correlate to overall employment prospects regardless of region after #3, is all I was trying to say.

Moneytrees
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Re: US News rankings coming March 10th

Postby Moneytrees » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:11 pm

pamphleteer wrote:
ballcaps wrote:
pamphleteer wrote:After the top 13 schools (and even within them), rankings lose all meaning.


that is an absolutely outrageous notion.

outside of the top 13, i agree, though.


After HYS, the top schools are still somewhat regional as far as ties-sensitive markets are concerned, no? NU is better for Chicago placement than Penn, Duke is better for the south than Michigan, Berkeley is better for California than NYU, etc. independent of where those schools are ranked overall. Obviously they're all national to some degree but rank doesn't directly correlate to overall employment prospects regardless of region after #3, is all I was trying to say.


Yeah, this is pretty accurate. Your chances at, say, San Diego or San Francisco Biglaw out of Cornell are probably a lot lower than out of Berkeley. Even schools in the T14 are regional to an extent.

jever020
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Re: US News rankings coming March 10th

Postby jever020 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:25 pm

I expect (and hope) w&l to rise back into the 30-35 ish range. 1/4 of the metric is peer assessment and they consistently rank t30 there. I think last year they got over corrected and will see a slight up tick.

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baal hadad
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Re: US News rankings coming March 10th

Postby baal hadad » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:54 pm

jever020 wrote:I expect (and hope) w&l to rise back into the 30-35 ish range. 1/4 of the metric is peer assessment and they consistently rank t30 there. I think last year they got over corrected and will see a slight up tick.

Who cares no matter what they're ranked you probably shouldn't go there

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Dog
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Re: US News rankings coming March 10th

Postby Dog » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:56 pm

Moneytrees wrote:
pamphleteer wrote:
ballcaps wrote:
pamphleteer wrote:After the top 13 schools (and even within them), rankings lose all meaning.


that is an absolutely outrageous notion.

outside of the top 13, i agree, though.


After HYS, the top schools are still somewhat regional as far as ties-sensitive markets are concerned, no? NU is better for Chicago placement than Penn, Duke is better for the south than Michigan, Berkeley is better for California than NYU, etc. independent of where those schools are ranked overall. Obviously they're all national to some degree but rank doesn't directly correlate to overall employment prospects regardless of region after #3, is all I was trying to say.


Yeah, this is pretty accurate. Your chances at, say, San Diego or San Francisco Biglaw out of Cornell are probably a lot lower than out of Berkeley. Even schools in the T14 are regional to an extent.


This is true, but at least partly due to ties. A Berkeley student will have a definite advantage over a Cornell student that has no significant ties to CA for CA jobs. The advantage will still exist but be minimized if the Cornell student grew up in CA and did his UG in CA.

AquafiNa
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Re: US News rankings coming March 10th

Postby AquafiNa » Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:10 pm

I seen in the prediction thread a lot of people are thinking Michigan drops. Why does this seem to be a common thought?

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TheodoreKGB
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Re: US News rankings coming March 10th

Postby TheodoreKGB » Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:16 pm

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Last edited by TheodoreKGB on Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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AT9
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Re: US News rankings coming March 10th

Postby AT9 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:52 pm

Slightly off topic: anyone know when the most recent employment numbers get published by schools (and LST)?

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Winston1984
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Re: US News rankings coming March 10th

Postby Winston1984 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:57 pm

AT9 wrote:Slightly off topic: anyone know when the most recent employment numbers get published by schools (and LST)?

LST is supposed to have them up in May I believe.

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Dog
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Re: US News rankings coming March 10th

Postby Dog » Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:08 pm

AT9 wrote:Slightly off topic: anyone know when the most recent employment numbers get published by schools (and LST)?


I think the NLJ 250 stuff actually comes out around this time of year. It's not the full picture but it's still informative.

BigZuck
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Re: US News rankings coming March 10th

Postby BigZuck » Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:11 pm

NYC to 190 was confirmed ITT and all you nerds can talk about is the relative risings and fallings of TTs like W&L and Michigan

smh

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rpupkin
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Re: US News rankings coming March 10th

Postby rpupkin » Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:18 pm

BigZuck wrote:NYC to 190 was confirmed ITT and all you nerds can talk about is the relative risings and fallings of TTs like W&L and Michigan

smh

Can't get big law NYC 190 at Mich if it falls to #12. Big picture, dude.

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North
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Re: US News rankings coming March 10th

Postby North » Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:24 pm

BigZuck wrote:NYC to 190 was confirmed ITT and all you nerds can talk about is the relative risings and fallings of TTs like W&L and Michigan

smh

get in here dude this is important viewtopic.php?f=2&t=243939

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IngmarKurosawa
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Re: US News rankings coming March 10th

Postby IngmarKurosawa » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:13 pm

AquafiNa wrote:I seen in the prediction thread a lot of people are thinking Michigan drops. Why does this seem to be a common thought?


On a related note, a lot of folks in the prediction thread seem to have Columbia falling below Chicago--this seems weird to me, especially since Columbia regained its 172 LSAT median last year.

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rpupkin
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Re: US News rankings coming March 10th

Postby rpupkin » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:18 pm

IngmarKurosawa wrote:
AquafiNa wrote:I seen in the prediction thread a lot of people are thinking Michigan drops. Why does this seem to be a common thought?


On a related note, a lot of folks in the prediction thread seem to have Columbia falling below Chicago--this seems weird to me, especially since Columbia regained its 172 LSAT median last year.

A one point gain or loss in LSAT median isn't that big of a deal. A school's attorney/judge score rising or falling by a tenth of a point has more of an effect.

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rpupkin
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Re: US News rankings coming March 10th

Postby rpupkin » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:23 pm

Dog wrote:rpupkin, any idea on the lower t14? As in non-t6.

I've been warned about naming schools, so I'll just say: mostly stable, but one school drops three positions.

03152016
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Re: US News rankings coming March 10th

Postby 03152016 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:48 pm

rpupkin wrote:
IngmarKurosawa wrote:
AquafiNa wrote:I seen in the prediction thread a lot of people are thinking Michigan drops. Why does this seem to be a common thought?


On a related note, a lot of folks in the prediction thread seem to have Columbia falling below Chicago--this seems weird to me, especially since Columbia regained its 172 LSAT median last year.

A one point gain or loss in LSAT median isn't that big of a deal. A school's attorney/judge score rising or falling by a tenth of a point has more of an effect.

meaningless comparison
of course there are factors more heavily weighted than lsat
that doesn't reduce the impact of the lsat median
esp with c/c landing at the exact same raw score two years in a row

tamahana from his book "failing law schools":
Immediately, Emory’s situation changed because of the fall. Emory ranked thirtieth will attract an aggregate pile of applications with a median LSAT perhaps a point or two lower than Emory did when it was ranked twenty-second. LSAT median is all important and a single point shift matters because schools are separated by fractions in the raw scores that underlie the ranking. Previously, Emory competed on an even basis for students against schools like Boston University—tied with Emory at twenty-second—offering a roughly similar scholarship to entice students. After the drop, however, it must offer higher amounts if it hopes to win students away in a head-to-head competition. Students from the Northeast, a pool Emory draws heavily from, would be reluctant to choose the thirtieth-ranked school over twenty-second in the absence of significant financial inducement. And that might not be enough to appease risk-averse students worried about a further slide by Emory. As a consequence of the drop, Emory faces the prospect of a dual financial hit, increasing its scholarship budget as well as enrolling fewer students to stave off a drop in its LSAT median.

(source)

Moneytrees
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Re: US News rankings coming March 10th

Postby Moneytrees » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:56 pm

Neither BU nor BC has substantially increased their scholarship offers in recent years, despite falling in the rankings. Same deal with Fordham.

ND seems to be one of the few schools actually trying to do something about their fall. It's throwing Wash U money around this cycle.

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rpupkin
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Re: US News rankings coming March 10th

Postby rpupkin » Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:00 pm

Brut wrote:
rpupkin wrote:A one point gain or loss in LSAT median isn't that big of a deal. A school's attorney/judge score rising or falling by a tenth of a point has more of an effect.

meaningless comparison
of course there are factors more heavily weighted than lsat
that doesn't reduce the impact of the lsat median
esp with c/c landing at the exact same raw score two years in a row

You're not getting it. Of course a rise in a school's LSAT (or GPA) median can affect the rankings. But a mere tenth of a point drop in a judge/lawyer score (which is likely just statistical noise) could offset the LSAT median increase. The LSAT medians matter, but they're not outcome determinative. One shouldn't be surprised if a school drops despite a small increase in a LSAT or GPA median (which was the reaction of the poster I was responding to).

03152016
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Re: US News rankings coming March 10th

Postby 03152016 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:10 pm

no
ingmar's point is 100% correct
we're talking about predictions people are making based on publicly released data
even if a tenth of a point change in the reputation score is statistical noise, that doesn't cut either way
the fact that a point change on the lsat could be wiped out by some opaque and arbitrary measurement does nothing to explain people's behavior in making their predictions
people can only go by the data available to them, and on those numbers, col has improved and chi hasn't
thus, i share ingmar's confusion

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rpupkin
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Re: US News rankings coming March 10th

Postby rpupkin » Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:12 pm

Brut wrote:we're talking about predictions people are making based on publicly released data

Are we? Have you considered the possibility that some have access to data that isn't necessarily....er....public? The game is rigged, my friend.




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