2.3/165 should I even try?

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romothesavior
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Re: 2.3/165 should I even try?

Postby romothesavior » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:25 am

mike0331 wrote:It has been my experience that given the right soft factors one can certainly make themselves a more attractive candidate.

No kidding. No one has said otherwise.

Softs help at the margins but they aren't going to help a candidate overcome a shit GPA and a shit LSAT.

BigZuck
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Re: 2.3/165 should I even try?

Postby BigZuck » Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:08 pm

mike0331 wrote:Those coming at this strictly from a schools best interest perspective need to take into account employability. If someone has a shit GPA from 10 years ago and has held a job, say in biotech for 10 years and wants to go into IP in that industry, there is a lot to suggest that person will be employable and it would be foolish for a school to simply push them aside, especially if they have some of the numbers.

I am waiting on 1 school, according to those websites everyone here suggests I was deny/weak consider for all of my top choices I was accepted to, so far with money and in one of the first waves after applying in January.

It has been my experience that given the right soft factors one can certainly make themselves a more attractive candidate. It may well be the case that these soft factors point towards ones employability, which will reflect well on the school. I agree that "interesting" probably wont sell it as much as "potential," but there are more signs of potential in the career field than LSAT and UGPA.

Mike


You're ex-military, right?

Also no, I don't think they care about employability all that much. They don't have much incentive to care. LSAT/GPA is a way bigger part of the calculus.

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hoos89
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Re: 2.3/165 should I even try?

Postby hoos89 » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:14 pm

BigZuck wrote:You're ex-military, right?

Also no, I don't think they care about employability all that much. They don't have much incentive to care. LSAT/GPA is a way bigger part of the calculus.


That's not entirely right. They do have some incentive to care because employment % is factored into the rankings. However, it doesn't seem like they care all that much, because you don't really see STEM majors getting a boost.


That said, Mike it sounds like you were going to law school predictor. That site is okay maybe for giving you a rough idea of places to apply but it really is not very accurate. For instance, people with an LSAT at or above WUSTL's median are virtual auto admits, but its results don't reflect that.

Softs can help at the margins: law schools can't accept every marginal candidate, but they need to accept some of them. That's where softs come into play. However, don't think for a second that 95%+ of schools wouldn't prefer, for instance, a 168/3.5 with "meh" softs over a 166/3.5 with great softs (assuming neither is a URM). A lot of schools might admit both, but the 168 is going to do better (barring some felonies or something).

BigZuck
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Re: 2.3/165 should I even try?

Postby BigZuck » Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:28 pm

hoos89 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:You're ex-military, right?

Also no, I don't think they care about employability all that much. They don't have much incentive to care. LSAT/GPA is a way bigger part of the calculus.


That's not entirely right. They do have some incentive to care because employment % is factored into the rankings. However, it doesn't seem like they care all that much, because you don't really see STEM majors getting a boost.


That said, Mike it sounds like you were going to law school predictor. That site is okay maybe for giving you a rough idea of places to apply but it really is not very accurate. For instance, people with an LSAT at or above WUSTL's median are virtual auto admits, but its results don't reflect that.

Softs can help at the margins: law schools can't accept every marginal candidate, but they need to accept some of them. That's where softs come into play. However, don't think for a second that 95%+ of schools wouldn't prefer, for instance, a 168/3.5 with "meh" softs over a 166/3.5 with great softs (assuming neither is a URM). A lot of schools might admit both, but the 168 is going to do better (barring some felonies or something).


I know employment is a factor, it's just nowhere near as important as GPA/LSAT.

That's why I said they don't have much incentive to care about employment and that numbers are a way bigger part of the calculus.

I think if the choice is candidate A who will help our medians (which is a given in the present) vs candidate B who might be "more employable" (whatever that means and it's also more of an unknown because maybe that guy will get terrible grades and still not be all that employable) but doesn't help our medians, they're going to go with candidate A.

Now, what if candidate B has something else in their favor? Something we can tout on our website such as former active duty military, published novelist, diversity, etc.? Then maybe it'll swing back around to candidate B's favor.

mike0331
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Re: 2.3/165 should I even try?

Postby mike0331 » Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:57 pm

Yes I am former mil.

I'm sure the numbers are heavily weighted but you see outliers on either side of the spectrum. Furthermore, the schools ARE going to accept some outliers. I understand a 2.3GPA is a blemish, but if they slay the LSAT I'd imagine (within reason) schools would take the chance, especially given post-UG education and career success. That stuff is what will push them to take the chance. Also, I'm not sure exactly how the formula works out but its a median not a mean, so does a 2.3 really hurt a school much more than a 3.0 for example with lets say a 25th percentile score of 3.5? So they get a 3.0 and a 2.3 with similar LSATs, but the 2.3 has much more impressive softs suggestive of greater success (also factored in, even if weighted less when it comes to rankings), how much benefit do they see to taking the 3.0 over the 2.3?

Mike

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MangoCinnamon
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Re: 2.3/165 should I even try?

Postby MangoCinnamon » Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:29 am

I spoke to someone from admissions at a T14 school about a low GPA also 10 years old, and she just waved her hand away like she was swatting a fly and said " it was 10 years ago" She emphasized that with my strong softs/masters/ professional success in my 10 years of work experience and decent LSAT score, it was a completely different story than someone with 1-2 years work experience and the same numbers. She said something along the lines of " how much maturing am I really supposed to expect them to have in the past two years"

I think if your work shows you have progressive responsibility, and requires discipline, surviving life's ups and downs and generally not f*cking around, it's a safer bet that you aren't going to drop the ball on academic discipline in law school.

that said, I am a late applier ( no judgement please, I have my reasons) so I will know how valid her advice was after this cycle. Best of luck OP.

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twenty
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Re: 2.3/165 should I even try?

Postby twenty » Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:54 am

MangoCinnamon wrote:that said, I am a late applier ( no judgement please, I have my reasons) so I will know how valid her advice was after this cycle. Best of luck OP.


Probably speaking on behalf of everyone when I say we wish you the best this cycle, and sincerely hope you come back here to confirm or deny whether this statement was accurate.




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