"I really should have taken that Ruby over HYS sticker"

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Fred Norris
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"I really should have taken that Ruby over HYS sticker"

Postby Fred Norris » Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:49 am

Is there anyone here who feels that they should have taken a Ruby/Hamilton over HYS sticker? Dillard/Levy/Darrow over HYS sticker? Do you know someone who feels that way? How about people who DID and are happy with their decision to go several hundred thousand into debt for HYS.

Obviously, those at near 100% sticker are preferred to comment. I get that if you are getting 40k a year from HLS, it's a lot less of a debate.

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Re: "I really should have taken that Ruby over HYS sticker"

Postby 03152016 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:36 pm

this thread is going to end well

Instinctive
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Re: "I really should have taken that Ruby over HYS sticker"

Postby Instinctive » Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:40 pm

I turned down the Ruby for a nominal aid offer at Y/S (10k).

I have no regrets. The fact that grades don't really matter here (I mean, they do, but no GPA is a pretty huge difference in stress level compared to friends I talk to at these other law schools) is incredibly underrated by TLS. It's not the community's fault, but when you're at a school where BigLaw (AND MBB Consulting) comes to you, where people who want to do other things have no competition for it...it's nuts.

My story? I'm trying to work in sports. I have 1 other person in my class trying to do a similar job. People here got interviews and offers the same day they applied for summer jobs.

That said, if you want real prestige, like V5 firms or DOJ Honors or Feeder Clerkships, then yeah grades matter and there is stress. For the rest of us? Incredibly more low key.


I'm not looking for a V5 firm. I can get a BigLaw salary if I want, I can pull MBB if I put the work in for interviews, and I'm living out my dream summer job already. I'm sure this could happen taking the Ruby and working hard to be at the top at CCN, but not having to do so and still being 100% confident I'll come out fine...tough to put a price on that. Not to mention if you want PI or what have you, the back-end aid payout protects you pretty well.




I'm sure others have had issues, but it all depends on how well you know yourself. I knew going in that I didn't want my grades to be the foremost focus, and that I wanted non-law jobs.

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Re: "I really should have taken that Ruby over HYS sticker"

Postby UnicornHunter » Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:56 pm

Instinctive wrote:I turned down the Ruby for a nominal aid offer at Y/S (10k).

I have no regrets. The fact that grades don't really matter here (I mean, they do, but no GPA is a pretty huge difference in stress level compared to friends I talk to at these other law schools) is incredibly underrated by TLS. It's not the community's fault, but when you're at a school where BigLaw (AND MBB Consulting) comes to you, where people who want to do other things have no competition for it...it's nuts.

My story? I'm trying to work in sports. I have 1 other person in my class trying to do a similar job. People here got interviews and offers the same day they applied for summer jobs.

That said, if you want real prestige, like V5 firms or DOJ Honors or Feeder Clerkships, then yeah grades matter and there is stress. For the rest of us? Incredibly more low key.


I'm not looking for a V5 firm. I can get a BigLaw salary if I want, I can pull MBB if I put the work in for interviews, and I'm living out my dream summer job already. I'm sure this could happen taking the Ruby and working hard to be at the top at CCN, but not having to do so and still being 100% confident I'll come out fine...tough to put a price on that. Not to mention if you want PI or what have you, the back-end aid payout protects you pretty well.




I'm sure others have had issues, but it all depends on how well you know yourself. I knew going in that I didn't want my grades to be the foremost focus, and that I wanted non-law jobs.



Lol. It's great that you want to get into sports (law?) and chose Y/S over HCCN

Gary Bettman: NHL Commissioner, NYU Law Alum
Rob Manfred: MLB Commissioner, Harvard Law Alum
Adam Silver: NBA Commissioner, Chicago Law Alum

I can't speak for Bettman or Manfred, but I know for sure that Silver is very involved with Chicago (especially the Doctoroff Program).

But, you know, the difference between having no grades and incomprehensible grades sounds like it's worth $200,000 or so.

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Re: "I really should have taken that Ruby over HYS sticker"

Postby Kimikho » Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:18 pm

Anecdotes:

But I know someone at Y who wishes he'd taken the Ruby. Other than that, everyone I know either doesn't talk about it, or is neutral (but they are all "firmly" PI) (these are people who took HYS > Hammy, Dillards, Darrow--I don't know anyone else who rejected the Ruby). The only one who I know who is legitimately happy she didn't take a full ride somewhere had RTK and decided she wants to be at a firm for a bit first.

Haven't done OCI yet filter
Going to HYS is great in that you are at HYS. But it's not going to make you a scotus judge, and you aren't "off the treadmill" the second you show up. If you have goals that HYS will help, then it's still just as stressful as any other law school (and potentially more--at Y, you'll only have one semester of grades, and at H and S, you could be at the 62nd/69th percentile in every class and end up below median). If you don't have goals that HYS specifically will help, then you are probably just gunning for NY, and median at HYS isn't going to suddenly land you at some V5 dream firm--it's going to get you just about where median at CCN would. And being #1 at Chi is going to get you to the same place that like, top 10% at HYS would get you. There is probably a difference below median (I'd rather be below median at HYS than CCN)--but in both situations you are still at a firm in NY. Only in one you'll have a bunch of debt and another you won't.

So if you just want to work at a firm in NY then take the money. It's only when you are narrowing down your options on your end ("I don't want to work in NY" or "I want to get back to my [insular home town on the west coast (S only)]" or "I want to do [some specific attainable goal that HYS will help]") that it starts mattering. And even then idk.

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Re: "I really should have taken that Ruby over HYS sticker"

Postby Username123 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:31 pm

TheUnicornHunter wrote:
Instinctive wrote:I turned down the Ruby for a nominal aid offer at Y/S (10k).

I have no regrets. The fact that grades don't really matter here (I mean, they do, but no GPA is a pretty huge difference in stress level compared to friends I talk to at these other law schools) is incredibly underrated by TLS. It's not the community's fault, but when you're at a school where BigLaw (AND MBB Consulting) comes to you, where people who want to do other things have no competition for it...it's nuts.

My story? I'm trying to work in sports. I have 1 other person in my class trying to do a similar job. People here got interviews and offers the same day they applied for summer jobs.

That said, if you want real prestige, like V5 firms or DOJ Honors or Feeder Clerkships, then yeah grades matter and there is stress. For the rest of us? Incredibly more low key.


I'm not looking for a V5 firm. I can get a BigLaw salary if I want, I can pull MBB if I put the work in for interviews, and I'm living out my dream summer job already. I'm sure this could happen taking the Ruby and working hard to be at the top at CCN, but not having to do so and still being 100% confident I'll come out fine...tough to put a price on that. Not to mention if you want PI or what have you, the back-end aid payout protects you pretty well.




I'm sure others have had issues, but it all depends on how well you know yourself. I knew going in that I didn't want my grades to be the foremost focus, and that I wanted non-law jobs.



Lol. It's great that you want to get into sports (law?) and chose Y/S over HCCN

Gary Bettman: NHL Commissioner, NYU Law Alum
Rob Manfred: MLB Commissioner, Harvard Law Alum
Adam Silver: NBA Commissioner, Chicago Law Alum

I can't speak for Bettman or Manfred, but I know for sure that Silver is very involved with Chicago (especially the Doctoroff Program).

But, you know, the difference between having no grades and incomprehensible grades sounds like it's worth $200,000 or so.


Shots fired.

Fred Norris
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Re: "I really should have taken that Ruby over HYS sticker"

Postby Fred Norris » Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:42 pm

What are some markets where you should really have an HYS degree? Obviously NY is not one..

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banjo
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Re: "I really should have taken that Ruby over HYS sticker"

Postby banjo » Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:54 pm

I'm at CCN. People do stress about grades in 1L, especially in the weeks leading up to finals and over break. But after OCI, most people don't worry about grades. At least at my school, curves in upper-year lectures are relaxed, and seminar/clinic curves are extremely generous. A few people I know don't even check grades anymore. I'm not saying it's Yale, but before you turn down that full-tuition plus stipend scholarship at Chicago, just know that grades are a short-lived evil.

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Re: "I really should have taken that Ruby over HYS sticker"

Postby Desert Fox » Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:12 pm

I don't buy for one second that Y/S aren't competitive.

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Re: "I really should have taken that Ruby over HYS sticker"

Postby Cicero76 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:18 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I don't buy for one second that Y/S aren't competitive.


yeah, rofl @ that. Like maybe it's worse at other schools, but lol at the idea that we aren't competitive. It's just hidden behind an especially thick veneer of civility and charm because the grading system makes it slightly less zero sum. There's still a huge dichotomy in terms of opportunities though, and the competition for them is real.

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Desert Fox
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Re: "I really should have taken that Ruby over HYS sticker"

Postby Desert Fox » Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:22 pm

What is the diff between rubby and hys sticker? 200k in debt at grad?

I doubt any placement differentce in any type of job justifies 200k.

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Emma.
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Re: "I really should have taken that Ruby over HYS sticker"

Postby Emma. » Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:04 am

If what you are looking for in this thread is confirmation that you won't be burdened with regret for taking HLS over a Ruby, you'll surely find anecdotes about folks who made that decision and are happy they did. But whether someone regrets the decision they made is almost completely irrelevant to whether it was the best decision for them. People always seek confirmation after the fact that they made the right call. And with a decision you can't take back, maybe that is a good thing.

But don't fool yourself that, just because folks who made that choice don't now express subjective regret, they made the right choice or that it might be the right choice for you.

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Re: "I really should have taken that Ruby over HYS sticker"

Postby Mal Reynolds » Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:16 am

Desert Fox wrote:What is the diff between rubby and hys sticker? 200k in debt at grad?

I doubt any placement differentce in any type of job justifies 200k.


If someone told me fed gov from the Y/S equivalent of median was possible I might be convinced. But the people who are going to be able to get those jobs from Y/S are probably only going to have a slight bump compared to U Chicago. There's no way that much money is worth the marginal difference in job placement.

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Re: "I really should have taken that Ruby over HYS sticker"

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Sun Feb 08, 2015 5:55 am

Everyone who's working biglaw at least

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nygrrrl
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Re: "I really should have taken that Ruby over HYS sticker"

Postby nygrrrl » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:41 am

What Emma said.

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Re: "I really should have taken that Ruby over HYS sticker"

Postby Ehrler » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:32 pm

I would say that, if you're in any position to be concerned about money, you will get some not-entirely-token aid at YHS. After that you're looking at:

1) Marginally safer chances of landing biglaw
2) Interesting opportunities in government (Y/H) or industry (S)
3) A significantly better shot at federal clerkships (~10% vs. 17%, 30%, and 35%) which will be a big boost to lifetime earnings. I suspect the numbers on LST also understate the case because they're only 9 months out. I think people at YHS are more likely to be doing exotic things right out of school that forestall even clerkships, though I'm really just spitballing on this point.
4) That network/prestige: lots of HLS grads are going to be in a position to give you that raise/promotion earlier/ahead of the weirdo from Chicago. This is another big boost to lifetime earnings.
5) Stanford is really tough to comment on since California is in many ways a different country. If that's the country for you, Rubies and Hammies just won't do.

All in all, I think you're definitely buying something valuable with that extra money. How valuable it is depends on you, though I think it's clear that much of that value can be monetized over a career and amount to more than the present value of the scholarship in many cases.

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Desert Fox
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Re: "I really should have taken that Ruby over HYS sticker"

Postby Desert Fox » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:36 pm

Ehrler wrote:I would say that, if you're in any position to be concerned about money, you will get some not-entirely-token aid at YHS. After that you're looking at:

1) Marginally safer chances of landing biglaw- very marginal
2) Interesting opportunities in government (Y/H) or industry (S) their employment reports don't show this at all.
3) A significantly better shot at federal clerkships (~10% vs. 17%, 30%, and 35%) which will be a big boost to lifetime earnings. I suspect the numbers on LST also understate the case because they're only 9 months out. I think people at YHS are more likely to be doing exotic things right out of school that forestall even clerkships, though I'm really just spitballing on this point.lol at clerkship shaving a "BIG BOOST" of lifetime earnings. Hell it probably hurts since you know how sweet sweet sweet the government womb is.
4) That network/prestige: lots of HLS grads are going to be in a position to give you that raise/promotion earlier/ahead of the weirdo from Chicago. This is another big boost to lifetime earnings.why do you think the gap between HLS and Chicago would be anything more than zero?
5) Stanford is really tough to comment on since California is in many ways a different country. If that's the country for you, Rubies and Hammies just won't do.

All in all, I think you're definitely buying something valuable with that extra money. How valuable it is depends on you, though I think it's clear that much of that value can be monetized over a career and amount to more than the present value of the scholarship in many cases.

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Re: "I really should have taken that Ruby over HYS sticker"

Postby Desert Fox » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:46 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Yeah, re: clerking and lifetime earnings boost, I doubt it - it's most valued for lit, and one of the more desired lit exit options seems to be AUSA, and AUSA salaries don't boost anyone's lifetime earnings. (They're not pennies, but not private sector either.)


do ASUA go on the GS scale?

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UnicornHunter
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Re: "I really should have taken that Ruby over HYS sticker"

Postby UnicornHunter » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:48 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Yeah, re: clerking and lifetime earnings boost, I doubt it - it's most valued for lit, and one of the more desired lit exit options seems to be AUSA, and AUSA salaries don't boost anyone's lifetime earnings. (They're not pennies, but not private sector either.)


do ASUA go on the GS scale?


Under I think... http://www.justice.gov/usao/career-cent ... lan-charts

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lastsamurai
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Re: "I really should have taken that Ruby over HYS sticker"

Postby lastsamurai » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:57 pm

Please do yourself a favor and seriously consider taking the $$. I turned down H for an MVP full scholly (also had CCN full scholly), and it was the best decision i've made. I worried about it a lot until I realized that what you do out of school is largely up to you, regardless of where you go (within reason).

My friends at HYS stress just as much about grades as we do here, and they worry just as much about getting a great 1L summer job as we do here. If you can swallow your pride (which is really pretty tough) and go with the practical choice here, I think you should do it. If you'll forever kick yourself for not taking HYS, then go there.

Either way...congrats...you've got a problem a lot of people would kill to have.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: "I really should have taken that Ruby over HYS sticker"

Postby Mal Reynolds » Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:06 pm

lastsamurai wrote:Please do yourself a favor and seriously consider taking the $$. I turned down H for an MVP full scholly (also had CCN full scholly), and it was the best decision i've made. I worried about it a lot until I realized that what you do out of school is largely up to you, regardless of where you go (within reason).

My friends at HYS stress just as much about grades as we do here, and they worry just as much about getting a great 1L summer job as we do here. If you can swallow your pride (which is really pretty tough) and go with the practical choice here, I think you should do it. If you'll forever kick yourself for not taking HYS, then go there.

Either way...congrats...you've got a problem a lot of people would kill to have.


Are you a 1L?

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Desert Fox
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Re: "I really should have taken that Ruby over HYS sticker"

Postby Desert Fox » Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:07 pm

TheUnicornHunter wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Yeah, re: clerking and lifetime earnings boost, I doubt it - it's most valued for lit, and one of the more desired lit exit options seems to be AUSA, and AUSA salaries don't boost anyone's lifetime earnings. (They're not pennies, but not private sector either.)


do ASUA go on the GS scale?


Under I think... http://www.justice.gov/usao/career-cent ... lan-charts


Damn, only chance I go into gov is as a patent judge.

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Emma.
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Re: "I really should have taken that Ruby over HYS sticker"

Postby Emma. » Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:36 pm

Mal Reynolds wrote:
lastsamurai wrote:Please do yourself a favor and seriously consider taking the $$. I turned down H for an MVP full scholly (also had CCN full scholly), and it was the best decision i've made. I worried about it a lot until I realized that what you do out of school is largely up to you, regardless of where you go (within reason).

My friends at HYS stress just as much about grades as we do here, and they worry just as much about getting a great 1L summer job as we do here. If you can swallow your pride (which is really pretty tough) and go with the practical choice here, I think you should do it. If you'll forever kick yourself for not taking HYS, then go there.

Either way...congrats...you've got a problem a lot of people would kill to have.


Are you a 1L?


Mal makes a great point. You shouldn't really be seeking advice from anyone who hasn't yet started paying their loans. It is super easy for a HLS 1L to say "yeah I turned down a Rubenstein scholarship and HLS is so great I'm sure I made the right decision." It is quite another thing to hear that from a recent grad who is now starting to make payments on his or her six-figure debt.

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Desert Fox
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Re: "I really should have taken that Ruby over HYS sticker"

Postby Desert Fox » Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:41 pm

Emma. wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:
lastsamurai wrote:Please do yourself a favor and seriously consider taking the $$. I turned down H for an MVP full scholly (also had CCN full scholly), and it was the best decision i've made. I worried about it a lot until I realized that what you do out of school is largely up to you, regardless of where you go (within reason).

My friends at HYS stress just as much about grades as we do here, and they worry just as much about getting a great 1L summer job as we do here. If you can swallow your pride (which is really pretty tough) and go with the practical choice here, I think you should do it. If you'll forever kick yourself for not taking HYS, then go there.

Either way...congrats...you've got a problem a lot of people would kill to have.


Are you a 1L?


Mal makes a great point. You shouldn't really be seeking advice from anyone who hasn't yet started paying their loans. It is super easy for a HLS 1L to say "yeah I turned down a Rubenstein scholarship and HLS is so great I'm sure I made the right decision." It is quite another thing to hear that from a recent grad who is now starting to make payments on his or her six-figure debt.


HLS SUPERSTAR- First day of big law.

Tyranical Midlevel with no debt, not even Magna from FORDHAM (?!?!) enters

HLS: thinks to himself 'I didn't realize we hired trash like that here'

TM: proof read this for comma mistakes

HLS: 'does this fool not understand I'm HARVARD LAW' "WILL DO Thank."

(three hours later)

TM: Can you explain why this comma is here?

HLS: Umm, must be a mistake, I'll check it out.

TM: ok don't leave without coming to see me after it is done.

(20 minutes later TM leaves without saying anything)

HLS (stays at work til 11 waiting for TM)

(gets mint reminder that 3,200 dollar loan payment is due in 14 days).

KILLS SELF




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